I was talking to a few people yesterday and boy they were shocked when I told them how expensive arranger keyboards can be today. This one guy had heard so many good things about the PSR-2000, and wanted one for his son.. He planned on buying it through mail order, and when I showed him the price of that keyboard he said his son needs to find a cheaper hobby.. He had such a hard time justifying that price with an arranger keyboard. I also think people don't expect to see the high price tags on arrangers as well... Again it's that old 80's stereo type on arrangers.. A PSR-2000 is considered a home keyboard (even though it's not), and it costs $1199 in catalogs, yet you can spend $100 more and get a Korg Triton LE, which is considered a pro keyboard. For $200 more than the Triton LE you can by a Korg Karma..... So my question is to Yamaha.. If you place keyboards like the PSR-2000 in the home market, why do you sell it for the price of a pro keyboard???? To those not aware of the abilities of these arrangers, to them it's just a overpriced toy. Anyways this guy was so stuck on the stereotype associated with arrangers that he refused to pay that price for what he called a home, kiddie, keyboard... He's going to buy the lad a Casio WK.

Squeak

I think there may be many answers to this question. First, mass-producing arranger keyboards for the home market and selling them in larger quantities than pro keyboards probably contributes to a lower cost per unit. Pro musos account for a small minority of the overall music market still. Second, beside being made in less quantities, pro keyboards have to be advertised heavily in pro publications/trade shows/endorsement deals etc. and require the most in R&D which drives the unit costs up. And, bands don't use arranger keyboards so even pro-level arrangers don't get the limelight that the Tritons etc do. That contributes to their misperception.

However, many pro keyboardists I talk to want to have the option of being able to do a solo gig as long as they can keep the quality of the instruments that they have become accustomed to, so I think there is a growing pro market for the cross-over arrangers such as the PSR2000, 9000 Pro, Tyros etc. There is still a minority of keyboardists who believe "arranger" denotes "toy", but that's by and large by those who haven't played an arranger lately. Likewise, I get people at my gigs who have low-grade arrangers at their homes and after hearing my 9000 Pro are motivated to step up to a pro-level instrument.

I agree with you.. People just don't realize what these top end arrangers are capable of doing. Even the lower end arrangers sound great.. I may have some dislikes about my PSR-550, but I still think there are quite a few acoustic instruments on the 550 that sound better than my old Roland XP-60, and Yamaha EX-7, and those were pro keyboards.

Squeak

HI Guys,
1100 list is a very reasonable price for an instrument of the calibre of the 2000. For years we paid 3 to 4000 for our korgs, Ensoniqs, Rolands, Peaveys, etc. The samplers were even higher. We paid more for a sound module for the rack then a new arranger costs today. The work stations had their limitations too.
Now a high end arranger can be bought for 2000 to 2500 street price, and look at the capabilites they have. This is progress. Who cares what labels are put on them. Tell the folks to just listen to the music and then put their own label on them
Bebop

A technician told me about a keyboard for
duo's. It has keys on the frontsite and on
the backsite, so two musicians can play to-
gether on one keyboard.
I think another great step forward.

Obviously, any parent that sincerely believes that paying $1,200 for a keyboard has never looked into the cost of participant sports such as fishing, golf, hunting, etc. A small outboard motor, says something in the 25-hp category, sells for about $2k these days, and I just saw a 250-HP four stroke outboard that had a suggested list price of $24,800 and that before buying the boat and rigging. I know people that spend $%1,000 on a fly rod, then spend an equal amount on the reel. How about the price of a complete set of golf clubs with titanium shafts and balanced heads--$2,200 on sale. Buy the keyboard, the kid will be enamored with it's sounds and creativity, and 9 chances out of 10, the kid won't be hanging out on the streets looking for ways to buy drugs and get into trouble. If it were my son or daughter, they would get the keyboard, and I would be more than happy to toss in a years free music lessons to go with it.

Gary

Some people would say its a very good thing that most people don't get arrangers. This way there would be LESS people out there playing them professionally if they can taking away whatever little work is left in the Live Solo Market.
Others are just cheap and don't give themselves or their children the chance to experience the magic of making music. Some people want to but can't afford it. I would suggest to parents to see if a child shows interest in playing and instrument to start slow and look into private lessons using a less expensive arranger keyboard. If after a year or so they still show a Big interest, practice on their own etc. then upgrade to a better unit and continue with a good teacher.
Kids have it hard today, there is so much stuff out there to distract them especially in the music world. Not like years ago when there wasn't any computers, DJ's, MTV,
FM Radio, and a million different venues and catagories to get lost in besides learning, commiting yourself, and really loving to play and instrument. The odds are Not in your favor in todays world to Play and instrument versus all the other easier ways to do it. Just look at any Philharmonic Orchestra, or even in Juliard Music School and what do you see?....
90% Asian Musicians. Theres a reason for this don't you think? I don't see kids with Tattoos, Piercings and a Blue Spiked Mohawk, or whatever playing a Cello, Harp, or possibly an Arranger Keyboard? Hmmmmmm?

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-24-2003).]

Gary,
I totally agree with you... I think more parent should be this way with their kids (if they can afford it of course).. I was lucky growing up because I was one of 8 kids.. All my brothers and sisters tried playing instruments and then got sick of them, so since they were laying around I started messing with them. Plus my parents bought me a beautiful C.Kurtzman Cabinet Grand, (it's just over 100 years old now), and they had it full restored on the inside.. That kids father has the money to buy a PSR-2000, but his stubbornes and lack of experience is why he's buying the Casio. His son really wants a PSR-2000 too..

Squeak

I think it is the fault of the keyboard salespeople and Manufactures that the Arranger Keyboards are thought less of than Pro instruments. There is a lot of technology that goes into making an arranger instrument. Unfortunately the arranger instrument is billed as, the one finger wonder with an intro and ending. "Look, you don't even really need to know how to play, to sound good with an arranger instrument" is what I hear from sales people and or customers. This may stem from the old organ days in the mall where a front pumper would seduce people into thinking that anyone can play in 5 mins or less. Most everyone would like to learn to play an instrument and feels that they have a song burning inside themselves waiting to be discovered and sales people and manufactures encourage this thought process.

This brings me to another problem, because for the untrained ear, some no talent can hit a couple of one finger notes and peck out a melody with the right hand, and sound to some as incredibly talented. Pros in a band feel threaten from an already shrinking market of live entertainment from DJ's, Karaoke, and Beat Mixers. So they discredit the power of the arrangers.

Although some professionals do use arranger keyboards, others just use them for writing and arranging, and use the live band when performing to keep the magic alive.

Last point and I think someone sort of hinted on this already. There are more wannabies and hobbyist than actual working musicians, so there is a reason that manufactures target this audience. When you use the name Pro keyboard to a novice, you scare them into thinking it is only for professionals, visa versa, you will never scare a professional by calling in a home keyboard if it sounds good and gets the job done and gets em a check.

What I found shocking is that many of the musicians I know who own pro synths, also own arrangers, but don't really say much about them.. I honestly think that those who are so supportive of the pro synths and downtalk the arranger really do know that these keyboards are good. I've owned quite a few pro keyboards, and I'm not afraid to say my PSR-550 has quite a few acoustic sounds that are better. It's like someone said before, it's only an arranger when you press the auto accomp button. With that off you have a regular keyboard. I guess others think arrangers are in a way "cheating" when it comes to writing music, but here's the flip side to that one.. Synths do the same damn thing... They're getting better at it too.. Synths like the Motif and Triton have preset patterns (not styles but patterns)... Plus anyone ever play with the arpeggios on those things...????? You can't play a funky bass line, well choose the correct arpeggio, and play a note or two, and wham bring on the funk... You can't figure out that great riff for a dance song.. Well again choose an arpeggio and that solo just takes off.... Synths have their own little ways of helping you write music quicker as well.. People also knock the one finger style of triggering chords as cheating, but guess what...., synths have a way for you to cheat if you can't play that particular pattern in another key.. You play it in one key, copy the pattern, then you can automatically transpose that copied pattern to any key you want without ever having to play it over.. So if someone wants to say you're cheating with an arranger, it can also be said for a synth.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-24-2003).]

I shall show my ignorance on keyboards and ask the question: Just what is the difference between a "pro" keyboard and a "non-pro" keyboard? Is it that one has an arranger and the other doesn't or is it the price or whether a pro is using it? I read the discussions on the two, but I just fail to see what the difference is. Can anyone explain this in layman's terms?

Peter

A pro keyboard is one that a person raises 2 or more children with the proceeds.

The snobery has always come in over the auto accmp. feature of arrangers as I have heard it. How is that different from having 4 beer drinking weed smokers standing behind someone on stage,,,,that's auto accmp.....isn't it? Except my accmp. doesn't have the bad habits and quite after 2 years of practice.




------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Pro is short for professional as used here. Professional means one that has expert skill in his or her endeavor. Be it a doctor, musician or what ever. In other words one who has attained proficiency in what he does. There are other definitions of course but the question here is what is the difference between a pro keyboard and a non-pro keyboard. Other than a company adding the letters PRO to one of their products to play to the purchasers ego and or market share I would like to offer my thoughts. hopefully in laymen's terms. Just as people are labeled pro or professional in the sense of attaining proficiency, so also with equipment. Take for instance the tools of a mechanic or tradesman of any profession, other than the wood butchers or alley mechanics and such, these indicate the real professionals in there trade. Their tools are always first class, tools that they can work with day after day with little trouble and that can produce quality work results. Accurate. Long lasting and are a pleasure to work with. With these thoughts in mind, like professional people, professional keyboards are the ones that have proven to have attained proficiency in what they do. Proficiency in the operating system for the task it performs. Pleasure to use. Reliability. The proficiency to give the people it is designed to please to experience to finest sounds that can be sampled, digitized and heard by the human ear. Last but not least is the ability to allow the performer to attain these goals with ease and pride in his many years of practice towards this end. Of course there will always be those who are willing to sacrifice these qualities to other gods. The god of weight. The god of cheapness or the god of good-enough, or, brand is another god and so it goes. That is how I see it and I am sure others have different spectacles to view this with. Oh, I almost forgot, the god of ignorance.

From the thoughts of Grandpa Doug

Well, I have to fess up to having had a little of that arranger-snobbery myself a couple of months ago. I'm an accordionist and really used to have a hard time with keyboardists that picked up the instrument and would play only the right hand. Don't ask me why, but it drove me bonkers! I would start seeing prominent bands with "an Accordionist" who would rest their left hand in the bass strap - without even putting fingers on the bass keys!

I started looking into arrangers because, honestly, I can make a lot more money as a one-man-band than I ever could with a drummer and guitarist. I did that gig in high school and college and it was no fun. Hard to practice, almost never could all agree on what songs to play and at what tempo, etc. So an arranger looked like the perfect fit for me.

When I went to look at some of the Ketron arrangers about a year ago (I looked at the MS40 and X4 back then) I could tell the guy thought I was another in a long line of wannabe accordionists. He started going on and on about how the Foo Fighters just ordered five accordions from him and that they didn't have a clue how to play them, etc. He said that a lot of keyboardists were coming in to buy accordions just for the on-stage effect.

Well, I tried the arranger out with a really nice Bugari accordion he had and he just stopped me and said "Man, you can play!" I asked what he meant and he said that arrangers were for people that couldn't play.

Well, his comments, along with others I received on an accordion-only BBS started to form my opinion that arrangers are for people who can't really play. I never really paralleled my thoughts about the accordion with those that you are discussing here about keyboardists, but I see the similarity. The great PRO keyboardists probably think arrangers are for people that play a single note at a time on the right hand and let the arranger play all of the intros, chords, fills, and endings.

Well, this site opened my eyes to what can be done with an arranger. I have checked out every web page displayed in profiles here and am floored by the talent here. The stuff you guys are doing is very impressive and I'd pay to see it. I am still getting over that "they can't play" comment and hope to purchase an arranger in the next month.

I always end up thinking that even when I get my XD3 I'll still want to play Dizzy Fingers on my acoustic accordion just to "show them", so I obviously still have some growing to do.

The bottom line is ignorance. So many musicians do not have a clue as to what an arranger keyboard is and does. They only know little Casios, and the much-advertised Synths. As far as I'm concerned it can stay that way. There are already enough singles around here.
DonM

When the word 'ignorance' is used in its true sense i.e. 'not knowing' I totally agree.
How many times have we all heard someone say that they couldn't 'stand' football,jazz,classical,basketball,cricket,baseball etc.... when what they really mean is that they can't UNDERstand.!

Life is too short not to make use of arrangers which reduce the amount of work you have to practice.practice,practice even if you feel that perhaps you are cheating a little bit!
I know that my mother would have welcomed the use of a 'washing machine' instead of the boilers and tubs she had
I know that I get a lot more pleasure out of making music nowadays because the noises I make sound more professional than I am
cheers
Eddie Johnson

------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

my mail is virus-free thanks to Norton Antivirus2002


[This message has been edited by eddiefromrotherham (edited 04-25-2003).]

[This message has been edited by eddiefromrotherham (edited 04-25-2003).]

The problem I have always had with arrangers personally is the quality and feel of the keys. I just don't like those little cheap plastic keys. They break too easily and wear out in no time at all, especially if you use it every night. Example: Uncle Daves last arranger(and the one before it)...How long did he have it?
I agree that they sound alot better these days, but if you are going to rely on it night after night, its just not good enough. I have slammed arrangers before on this forum but Im not intentionally slamming now. Im just stateing my experience. When I worked in the studio, every once in a while we'd get a musician that uses an arranger keyboard who someone thought was very good. We'd get them into the studio to record and we would end up finding that most (not all) were just these 1 finger wonders with an arranger keyboard. Im not putting them down, but it wasn't what we were looking for. Im not going to invest in a musician who uses default (or even purchased) arrangements as the body of their songs. Nothing against arranger keyboard players, it was about marketability and originality. If you didn't write it(or even play it), why would you want to record it? I don't even like sampling for that reason. I can't release a preset arrangement. period. That is why many arranger keyboardist have such a hard time getting their music released.
Back to my first point, I think when Yamaha calls a keyboard a "home" keyboard, it has more to do with quality and durability of the keyboard than sounds, especially recently. If I was making a living playing, I would want something that I can rely on night after night. Something that I could use for several years not months. And if I were making a living doing that then it would be worth the higher cost to buy a "professional" keyboard, one that was made to take a beating night after night. I think of it as an investment in yourself as a musician, one that would pay for itself in time.

It all good,
DudeManCentral

DMC,
Right now I own three different arrangers (Yamaha 9000 pro, Ketron SD1 and Roland VA7); in the past I have also owned several synthesizers and workstations (Yamaha DX7 I and II, SY77 and SY99, Roland D50, D70 and JD880, Korg M1 and T3, Kurzweil K1200).
Among the arrangers I own presently one (the Yamaha 9000 pro) would no doubt fullfill all your requirements of reliability, resistance, etc. In my opinion it's the sturdiest keyboard I have ever owned and I am not talking just of the external appearance.
If you can find one to try out, maybe it will change your opinion about arranger keyboards being little flimsy toys, not reliable for a professional work, night after night.
Another good thing is that, even if you don't use the arranger section, it would still be a keyboard worth having in a studio, for its excellent sounds and DSP.

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 04-25-2003).]

Dreamer is right.. That 9000 Pro is very well built. Yamaha basically used the undercasing, and redisign of the EX-5 when making the 9000 Pro. Plus the 9000 pro has the same keybed (great synth action).. Much better than some arrangers.. Also keep in mind that some synths have fairly cheap keys as well.. I haven't talked to one person who owns the Triton Le that likes the keys.. I've heard many complaints on the Karma's keybed too. So crappy keys applies to both synths and arrangers..

Squeak

As a Yamaha 9000 Pro user and veteran player, I agree with Dreamer's statements totally. The functionality and pro-usefulness of the 9000 Pro is what earned it the "pro" name. My keyboard has been fully expanded up to 208 notes of polyphony, which is actually a rarity in the professional boards. That plus it's six assignable audio outputs makes it especially useful in the studio when laying down sequence tracks. Before the 9000 Pro I only played heavy Kurzweils on stage, but they now rest comfortably at home and the 9000 Pro is my primary stage instrument.

But beyond all that, these days so much so-called music is done with programs like Acid and Fruity Loops which require no musical skill at all, yet produce hit records. Arranger keyboards can do similar things but actually require the input of a musician to work. And certainly if you go beyond the preset patterns into your own realms of original arrangements then today's pro arrangers are every bit as expressive and professionally-useful as any other keyboard on the market bar none. You really owe it to yourself to learn more about them.

Well, it sounds to me like any keyboard can be a "pro" keyboard if it doesn't have an arranger and you have a live band backing you up when you play. Sounds very narrow minded and old fashion to me! Seems like some people refuse to enter the 21st Century. Of course, there have always been people who refuse to recognize or utilize new technology that infringes on their egos. I suppose some of them even consider themselves musicians. Like the dinosaurs, these old, set-in-their-ways people will eventually become extinct for refusing to adapt. IMHO, I think everyone who enjoys what they are playing and who's audience enjoys what they hear, is a "pro" and so is their keyboard, arranger or not.

Peter

"Professional" comes from the word Profession, which is what one does to make a living. Arrangers have made my living almost since they were first invented. I've never had one fail to get me through the night--250-300 jobs a year.
I do try to change keyboards once a year, but mostly for tax purposes. The PSR2000 is probably the least sturdy of all I've had, but even it has lasted me 18 months now, and is showing no signs of letting me down.
If I got drunk on the job every night, lost control and hammered it as hard as I could, it wouldn't last long though. (Now don't get excited, I'm not accusing anyone of doing that, but I do know that it's done.)
I don't abuse it or misuse it because I can't afford to be without it!
Don

I've also heard other musicians talk and frown upon solo Arranger KeyBoard players due to the fact that it puts many players out of work. Because you alone can take the place of a whole band, rendering you a "sellout of sorts".

I wonder how some of the "purests" feel about DJ's handling the music in the bars for young people to dance to rather than the bars having a live "professional" band. Seems to me the young people don't care where the music comes from as long as it's music they like. Maybe we should all take a hint from that.

Peter

Dreamer and squeak_D,
Yeah, I will admit that I probably know the least about the 9000pro(and Tyros). But they sound great. I do understand why you all like them. I learned on and prefer the feel of a standard piano, so I agree that many "pro" synth also have terrible keys as well..good point. Another thing about many "pro" keyboards (especially older Yamaha) was the learning curve. They were very hard to control on the fly and not very intuitive when it came to just about anything(of course they could do everything, but you needed a PHD to figure it out). Thats what appeals to me about arrangers, they can do so much rather easily. Does anyone here remember the old midi implementation charts? Even if you knew midi in-and-out, many were incredibly difficult to work with. I used to study a particular instruments implementation chart for days before I even would touch the keyboard. Many musicians didn't even know how to work their own instument.
I used to write sysex changes(hell, even note data and control changes) out by hand in a text editor, so you needed to really know the keyboard, the keyboards midi implementaion chart, and the sysex well...Now a days there are synth specific editors that do all that for you... Thats why in the past, Ive been so hard on arranger players. With a sequencer and a good synth specific editor it so easy to write your own stuff, especially "styles" when you can drag and drop sections, notes, just about anything into where ever you need them. I have literally thrown songs together in a matter of minutes. Mind you not really complicated songs, but none-the-less a song AND each section/phrase can be completely different so people dont have to listen to the same exact phrase/arrangement over and over. Its really noticable when I as a listener I dont really care for a particular phrase and I hear it over and over again exactly the same way. ughhh, I HATE that. Also completely unique beginnings and endings....
DONT USE PRESETS!

Good topic,
DudeManCentral


[This message has been edited by DMC (edited 04-25-2003).]

Catsailor and DomM,

Please dont take it like Im insulting you. Im not saying that only professionals use "pro" keyboards. Im just using the terminology of the manufactures. Of course, if you are making a living doing it you are a professional(by definition).The two are not connected. When I say "pro" keyboard or "home" keyboard, Im referring to the product line not the users. I will say that many arranger keyboardist are very sensitive about this. Thats why I put the terms in parenthesis, showing that its not my words. You assume alot of crap about me just because I dont agree with you I.E Old, out of touch with modern equipment etc. Yeah, Im older and I don't perform live every night. I have a degree in music and played in the Jazz band at Michigan State. I have played in various bands over the years and have played quite a few gigs. I have written hundreds of songs of my own and have written thousands of songs out in midi for artists we were recording, that was MY profession for a long time. We used to write out all the artists songs in midi before we recorded them. It made it much easier and more accurate when we went to laying down the individual tracks and was much easier than using a click track for the musicians to follow. Plus once we were finished, we were able to print out sheet music much easier for publishing purposes.

Peace,
DudeManCentral

PS. Many of you may wonder why I keep up with this "General Arranger Keyboard Forum" when I don't even play one. Its because this site has so many true professionals. I respect you all more than you seem to know.

[This message has been edited by DMC (edited 04-25-2003).]

I wasn't taking offense, but thanks for worrying about it!
I played trumpet in high school and college (Oklahoma State University). It's much easier to find a job playing keyboard than trumpet!
DonM

As was said in a recent post, all you have to do is turn off the accompaniment to get a regular keyboard. Now what's the difference? Just cover up 'PSR' with a label marked 'Pro' and who's to know?. I'm with Accordianist. I can still play Dizzy Fingers (with a bit of practice) but it's also nice to have a bit of rhythm in the background. Same with Tico Tico (trying to sound like Ethel Smith for those who remember). And it's not only arrangers that are expensive. If I had to replace my clarinets I'm looking at US$2000 or more.

Bryan

The discussion related to buying a keyboard for someone just starting out, not a top end pro board. Personally, I think such a keyboard is absurdly INexpensive. Buying a nice PSR-630/730 or 640/740 used on EBAY would, after you consider what you would later get for it, say 2 or 3 years down the road when you'd sell it yourself and move up to something better, be very inexpensive. I'd say 200 or $300 AT MOST. Considering, with built in speakers, that you really wouldn't need anything else for those first years, this is absurdly cheap for such a fun activity. On a "per hour" basis, for anyone actually using their instrument (I play a couple of hours many days a week) the actual "cost" is probably 10 cents an hour, or something absurd like that. One doesn't need a PSR-2000 to start out!

That's for sure. There is rarely a day that passes on this forum that fails to provide some helpfull advice. I occasionally check in with the "general" forum, but the tone is far too angry and one-sided for my taste. We all share a lot of wisdom at this site, and I'd miss it greatly if we lost it.

Pro or not ....... we're full of players here, and we can all learn form each other. Nice words, DMC. Spoke like a gentleman.

By reading this topic I realize even more and more, how good parents I have and how well they understand me and my hobby: music. For them arranger was never a toy. They knew how important machine it was for me and what I could do with it. I am very thankful of that. To tell you the truth, my last two keyboards really fascinated them.

I was 11 years old when they bought me my first keyboard. It was Roland E-16. When I was 15 they bought me Yamaha PSR4000. When I was 17 they bought me the PSR9000 (with 6 Gb hard disk + 64 Mb sample RAM) and now when I became 20 they bought me the Yamaha Tyros. All these keyboards + a huge amounth of extra stuff like MFC10 midi and some other pedals, microphone, speakers, zip drive (for PSR9000), stands and other stuff like that.

I could also add to the list the Roland RD150 stage piano. I got it when I was 18 years old. Then my (Yamaha YTS62E) tenor sax and (Yanagisawa S9930) soprano sax at the ages of 17 and 18. My first instrument was a Hellas upright piano. My grandmother bought it to me when I was six years old. I still have it of course.

I am very thankfull to my parents of my instruments. They really make my life better. Of course it doesn´t make your parents good if they buy you everything you want. My parents are not good because they bought me instruments. They are good parents because they are fantastic people and good parents. I hope that everyone understand what I want to say. My english is not the best possible.

Micco

There is still something I want to add. What I want to say is that my parents have the right attitude. Once my mother said to that she would much rather buy me five state of the art keyboards than one Nintendo. The truth is that I never wanted a Nintendo. I didn´t have anything against video games, but I never needed one. A friend of mine had one and every now and then when I wanted to play I visited him.

Second thing is that I want to correct something. My parents didn´t always buy me everything I wanted. They bought me things that where good for me. My parents said me once that instruments make me creative. It was also my mothers idea to buy a keyboard for me and she bought me the Roland E-16. My dream keyboard was E-86, but my parents said that you are a beginner and the E-86 is a professional keyboard. At the moment you need a small keyboard to begin with. Later it is time for a more professional model, if you really need it. Like I mentioned before I was eleven years old that time.

Also we didn´t pay full price of all my instruments. I always got very good offers form my dealer and a few times I gave my previous model for a exchange, but still it has been a lot of money.

Micco

Micco,
You are indeed very fortunate, and you do have wonderful parents, whose values seem to be exactly right.
DonM

I agree with Don.. You are very fortunate to have parents like that.

Squeak

Yes, Micco. Your parents are great. Reminds me of my own parents. They bought us Yamaha electone organ, Steinway pianos and when I was older, got me a ROLAND E-70 keyboard and later TECHNICS KN-2000. These were the signature keyboards on those days.

But I also got hundreds of games like ATARI, etc back then. I got sick of the games when it became overly abundant. Too much of a good thing can decrease the value, I guess.

Ahhh the old Atari days... I remember those well.... It's amazing to look at that system and compare it to what we have today. I remember playing games on Atari like "Pong", "PitFall", "Pole Position", and others.. Gosh remember those paddles that they used, and the huge joysticks...? We thought that system was so cool then.. My wife is a Nintendo lover, and of course we have the gamecube.. I have to admit I have my games too...

Squeak

I have championed this topic in many other discussion groups. This topic has been around for a long time and will probably continue for an even longer time.

Two things: 1) The manufacturers keep the top end arranger keyboards in their home divisions because it works for them, NOT US.
2) No matter what keyboard, Pro, arranger, toy, etc. - a good musician will make good music. One of the first electronic keyboards I bought was a mini Casio CT100 for $100. I still have it and can make it sound Pro whenever I have to, although I'll stick to my 2000 given the choice.
In the old days we used drum machines and played left hand chords and used footpedals. Today I use my arranger, but I usually prefer to play my chords (full) rather than two-finger them. Whatever works. Good discussion, folks.

Arrangers had not been invented when I was young, but my parents always had a piano. They later bought me a trumpet, a bass guitar and amp, drums, and a guitar. Video games?--I can remember having only one channel on the tv and it signed off at 11 p.m. I did get to watch Annette on MMClub and Dizzy Dean on Saturday baseball.
DonM