Hi everyone,
wondering if anyone has come across a group or forum that dabbles in style creation, conversions using EMC etc
I know there's groups like yahoo psr style group where you can download styles, but I'm more interested in discussing ideas on creating, editing etc rather than just collecting a heap of styles.
I think there's possibly quite a number of us don't tap into the full potential of our keyboards as far as stylemaking goes, most cases probably because don't have the time or the interest, but in some cases , maybe because we don't know where to start.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Rikki

Recently I wrote a 12 (small) part Style Creation Course at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/style_1.htm
Maybe this can give you some fresh ideas.

Regards
Jørgen

------------------
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Thank you Jorgen,
I'll check it out.

best wishes
Rikki



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 03-25-2006).]

Wow! What a wonderful resource, Jorgen, super work. Does anyone know of a similar site dealing with Korg?

Hi Jorgen,
wonderful course, very usefull info, but not quite what I had in mind.

Subject cropped up in the Ketron group the other day about style conversions ie lack of detail in emc manual. The odd bug here in there in the program, that makes some styles unuseable. I've only gotten interested in the program again recently after buying my ketron sd1.
Before that I was very happy using OMB software ( still am , as a software arranger), xgworks, some of your software & some of Michael Bedderson's . Let's face it , nothing is as well supported as the Yammies.

Anyway, emc's about the only software that will give me some of the functions i had available with the psr's, but the instructions ( or lack of) make it a bit hit & miss to use. Same goes for their latest software Stylefactory. Instructions exist, but lacks detail.

Also makes me wonder how many people think to use some of the editing/creation features in their keyboards. The mix n matching of keyboard phrases to create new styles. My
sd1, kn7000 * 9000pro had this function.

Basically why I was wondering if anyone had come across a style group that was more on discussing "how to" rather than just for downloading styles.
best wishes
Rikki
p.s. you've come up with some very interesting programs lately.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jørgen Sørensen:
[B]Hi Rikki

I wonder if there are any software programs that allow you to create or edit styles for your keyboard?

The same way you can create or edit sounds on your computer and then load them on to your keyboard. Does EMC style works do that?

Hi

Lots of Yamaha Style software here: http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software.htm

Regards
Jørgen

Hi Rikki
If you're uisng the latest version of EMC then conversion is a synch from one Make/model to another. Converting midi files needs a bit more patience, and listening to the bits you are proposing to convert...
Rog

Hi Roger,
I have got the latest EMC, had to get it for my new ketron which doesn't have some of the style editing functions I used to use in the kn7000. Used to be so handy just fixing up the odd note here or there in the kn7 composer section. EMC does odd things here & there when converting to Ketron format.

Had a brief look at the midifile to style section of EMC the other day, but it's going to need a bit of figuring out.. Either I didn't get instructions with my download, or I've misplaced them, not sure which.

Are you still busy converting for your KN7?

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Genesys,
EMC does do that. I think there is a demo you can try.

Be great if all keyboards had the same support with programs that Yammies get from 3rd parties & members.


Not sure what style functions your keyboard has, but on my SD1+ I can record a style across via midi using a p.c sequencer ie I can record a full style part of 8 tracks in one go. Means I can edit the style to my liking in the pc using an event list editor, then I don't need to do a great deal of editing in the keyboard itself , just adjust volumes etc.

I also use OMB & or XGworks software for psr conversions. I create a midifile from a psr style & record it across to the ketron. EMC was removing controller 11 from psr styles, which mucked up some of my intro's & endings where fade in's & outs existed.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi,
ended up starting a little group of my own.

Jorgen, would it be ok to add a link to your site. The info on styles may help inspire some members.

The few members I've got so far are mainly Ketron owners, but a couple of them have psr's also.

best wishes
Rikki
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/makingstyles/

Hi Rikki

Sure it will be ok to link to my Style Creation Course.

Without knowing how Ketron works, I think my Course will apply as a kind of general guideline to style creation at Ketron too. At least it might give some ideas.

I will join your new group, as the combination of technical and musical stylemaking is not discussed much anywhere else.

Kind Regards
Jørgen

Rikki,

I highly recommend taking a look at Michael P. Bedesem's excellent StyleMaker program which makes style files from standard midi files. It works great!
http://www.tyrosworld.com/


Al

Hi Rikki
Yes I'm still madly converting to KN5000 and then loading and uprating to KN7000.
I've joined your new Yahoo group and noticed that I can convert both to and from Ketron using EMC so watch out for some converts from Technics to Ketron...which model?
Rog
Sorry it's SD 1 ain't it...

[This message has been edited by RMepstead (edited 03-28-2006).]

A lot of musician's here feel that creating your own styles is not as good as the factory styles. I have never created my own styles (this is something I want to do), but curios as to why that is. When the keyboard manufacturers make a style to they use real musicians with MIDI instruments? I rarely use my factory styles and use 3rd party styles. One of the styles I use is from SVP world. I am sure Simon creates his styles with a keyboard.
Starkeeper

Hi Jorgen,
thank you.
Your course will come in very handy.

I didn't mean to make the group keyboard specific, so if it reads that way, I better change my intro to the group, it's just that my current keyboard is a Ketron , so I may be of more help to Ketron users because I have the keyboard & manual in front of me.

I'm hoping to get users of Yammies, Roland, Korg, Technics, General Music, Ketron, Anyone who wants to explore the options for creating styles for their keyboards using available software or the keyboards themselves.

Be wonderful if you join the group & if you get a chance, introduce yourself, the more experts we have, the better.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jørgen Sørensen:
[B]Hi Rikki

Hi Al,
thank you
I'm aware of some of Michaels wonderful psr programs.
We're very fortunate he has decided to join us also.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kbrkr:
[B]Rikki,

Hi Roger,
that'll be great. Hopefully we can attract some of our old KN7 style group buddies.
Your expertise on EMC will be most appreciated. By the way, have you seen their latest piece of software called Stylefactory,
instead of converting just say a kn7 style into a Ketron style, it actually saves the kn7 style as individual phrases. These phrases can be imported into an existing ketron style ie replace the odd style phrase here & there, or you can build a complete style from 1000's phrases you store in a phrase library.

Works a bit like Easy Composer in the KN's where you used to scroll thru & choose a bass from one style, drums from another etc except that with Style Factory you can use styles, turn them into phrases, from any brand keyboard that emc supports, and audition it as you build it up.

This ones going to keep me busy haahaa.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RMepstead:
[B]Hi Rikki

Hi Starkeeper,
Simon I think used a psr 740 to create his early styles, he's a very talented person.
I ended up with quite a collection of his styles because they're quite unique.

I suppose quality of style depends on how good a musician you are and on your ability to compose a style. Might not be the right word for it, but I've always thought of styles as mini compositions.

Me personally, I lack the musical imagination to create a style from scratch. I may know the technical details of how to go about it, ie what type of chord & notes can be used , what buttons to push, how to set up for style recording etc etc but most of my styles were edited conversions from my various keyboards .

I tend to think maybe some of the poor conversions that one sometimes comes across may give the impression that making your own styles, doesn't work. We tend to foget that each manufactures keyboards handle styles differently. eg some Technics styles don't convert very well to other keyboards, because Technics can handle notes within a style that other keyboards can't, so when it gets converted, you can end up with wrong sounding notes.

There's all sorts of ways to make a style, be it a conversion, or from a midifile or from scratch or even use existing style phrases from a keyboard to create new styles.
OK so may not be as good as what's in a new $3000 keyboard, but if you think about it, if you're using phrases from within a keyboard & just mixing em up a bit, why shouldn't it sound quite good.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]

Rikki, I've added a link to your group on the Accompaniment & Styles listing at Synth Zone at http://www.synthzone.com/midiaccomp.htm

I didn't make any mention of keyboard brand as I figure it is open to all arranger keyboard users.

The main benefit of using the Mix & match feature on Yamaha keyboard and other manufacturers boards is that all the work has already been done for you. Assuming you keep within the same style category some very good results are obtained.

The EMC route I find is very poor and even after conversion a lot of work is involved as most of the balance and volumes are neutralised. There are a few acceptations, but overall only a handful of conversions are worth while.

Thank You Nigel,
yes it is open to any brand of keyboard & software arrangers like Livestyler & OMB as they use .sty format, same as PSR's.
best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nigel:
[B]

Hi Graham ,
I agree the mix n match is a great way to go.

One thing EMC is handy for , is keyboards that don't have onboard style creation functions. Not a problem with Yammie keyboards because of all the great style programs michael, jorgen & jos have written , but if I'm not mistaken , some of the latest middle range roland keyboards don't have style creation functions, I think they can load a style, but not create. At least EMC would give them the opportunity of creating a style if they wanted to.

I just use EMC for an initial conversion , so I've got a variety of styles to audition when I'm looking for a style for a new song, then if one of the conversions is more suitable than my existing styles, I fix it up , even if it means redoing it by some other means.

Actually the mix n match works quite well with some of the conversions. I luv piano styles ( which sadly my sd1 lacks) The 9000 pro had some great piano solo styles, especially luved one of the ballad styles. Instead of leaving it as a solo, i added some extra tracks from my sd1 ( using mix n match) and it sounds reasonably good.
I've started keeping a library of useful rythmic phrases in my stylefactory program ie phrases like the arpeggio piano's out of the piano ballad style. Next I'll probably start collecting guitar phrases. Why be limited with mix n match by the styles in the keyboard.

thank you for your input
best wishes
Rikki

Why don't I see a style maker for Korg arrangers? Everything seems to be for Technics,Yamaha and Ketron. Or am I missing something?
A technical answer would be nice from a programer. I'd appreciate that and it would be interesting.

Hi Brickboo,
EMC makes a style conversion program for most brands of keyboards including Korg.

Years back,I used to own a korg i2 arranger ( 76 note version of the i3) and it had some of the best style creation functions available in it's day.

I'm not familiar with your Korg i40??
so not sure what style creation features it has. I seem to remember though, that with the korg i5m module I owned after the korg i2
I was able to load styles, but not create them (except via emc).
Can you record styles, or is it a function they've left out?
Vaguely in the back of my mind, I remember reading about a midi to style conversion utility for korg keyboards. If that's the case, there'd be nothing stopping you from creating styles for your korg keyboard , even if it doesn't have style creation functions.
I used to use either XG Works or One Man Band
software for creating/converting ( not sure which you'd call it) psr styles to my KN7.
Both of these programs load psr styles.
All I did was create a midifile from the various psr style parts, intro's Endings Variations, save it as a midifile. The KN7 had a function called song to style, which is same function as midifile to style in the psr programs available. So it was a case of load it in to the kn7 then extract style parts from the midifile. I used to do any tweaking, vol adjustments, program changes etc in the kn7 itself, including a bit of drum remapping when required. Actually worked quite well.

I've also tried the OMB/XG Works method with my SD1+. Unfortunately there's no midi to style program available so, I still create the midifle from the psr style, but I record the various style parts to the sd1 via midi & a sequencer. I do all the tweaking / editing / or creating required either in OMB or the sequencer.
http://www.gnmidi.com/
Look Under GNI Style there's an interesting program for Korg.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by brickboo:
[B]Why don't I see a style maker for Korg arrangers?

Rikki. Is it easier to create style files using Michaels programs or OMB?
Starkeeper



[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 03-30-2006).]

Hi Starkeeper,
for me personally OMB, but remember I also use it as a realtime arranger, so I have vested interest in learning everything about the program that I can. For me it's an all in one. Realtime arranger, style creator/editor, sequencer, arranger (as in, type in chord progression & style parts) A bit like BIAB but not as sophisticated.

Really a case of having a look at the various programs & deciding which makes more sense to you.

Michaels & Jorgen's psr utilities\programs are aimed to assist psr keyboard owners.

I used to use Michaels & Jorgens programs when I was a 9000 pro owner,( goes back a few years now) but when I bought my Technics, I no longer had a use for them.
A bit later on, I discovered OMB and found a use for it. I used it to create styles for my Technics keyboard & as the program evolved, I also realized what a great realtime arranger it was.

I'm just really pleased that both Jorgen & Michael have joined the group, because you can't get a better expert on subject, than the creator of the software.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[b] [QUOTE]Originally posted by rikkisbears:
[b]Hi Al,
thank you
I'm aware of some of Michaels wonderful psr programs.
We're very fortunate he has decided to join us also.

best wishes
Rikki




[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 03-30-2006).]

Hi,
just in case anybody interested in joining isn't familiar with the yahoo group system,
when you do join, just make sure you click the correct preference for messages ie
you can receive "individual emails"
a digest of the days emails
or no emails at all, in which case you read the message on the yahoo site.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rikkisbears:
[B]Hi Jorgen,


Also makes me wonder how many people think to use some of the editing/creation features in their keyboards. The mix n matching of keyboard phrases to create new styles. My
sd1, kn7000 * 9000pro had this function.
Rikki,
I mixed and matching part from different styles on almost all my giging styles, I'm glad you did it as well. That's why it's hard to part with my old SD1 which I'm about to install EXP from AJ after this weekend gig, I'd love to hear some of your styles, thanks!


------------------

Hey Rikki ...


I have remixed a few styles on the SD1...

I can send them to you if you wish... Kind of interesting....


An example is adding an acoustic guitar part from an 8-beat to the Tribal Age style or string parts from the "movie" style into the tribal age style...

Dan O'

------------------
Ketron, Yamaha, Casio,Korg
http://www.baltimoremusiccenter.com
1-866-348-8876

Hi Shade of Pale,
the SD1+ I haven't done a great deal with as yet.
I've only had it for 3 months, took me the first 2, to work out the operating system.
The last few weeks I've spent figuring out style recording functions, ie mix n match, midi recording styles via computer, syncing drum audio loop to styles. Also slowly putting together a phrase library to use with mix n match ie phrases from other keyboards.
These I'll be happy to share.

Be interested to hear what you think of AJ's expansion.


best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shade of pale:

Hi DanO1 ,
that would be great.
If you could pop them in a zip folder so that my outlook express doesn't delete them.
I must have some sort of a strange setting, & every now & then , it won't allow attachments thru.
email sjking@bigpond.net.au

Also , would you mind if I shared them with the group members, just to give them some idea of what can be done.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by DanO1:
[B]Hey Rikki ...

Hi Shade of Pale,
wondering if you've had a chance to install EXP yet, & what you think of it.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shade of pale:

I'm about to install EXP from AJ after this weekend gig,

As foolish as it sounds, I still have not had a chance to do so, but will do it soon, and let you know.

Thanks Shade of Pale,
just haven't heard too many comments yet from anyone.
I suppose when you're actually gigging with it, you need to find the right time to do it.

best wishes
Rikki

Korg have their own freeware style creator (you create the styles as midifiles and then run them through this utility to turn the patterns into a PA style):
http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/software/computer/Pa1X_StyleToMidi_303.zip

Hi Chris,
thank you for the link, I'll hand it on to the korg members.
Do you happen to know if there's a similar progam for the earlier korg i series.

best wishes
Rikki