Yesterday I started a topic about me wondering why some members persist in attacking persons and brands. They see themselves as far superiour above all other contibutors.

Well.... the topic did not last long because the complete thread was removed by the administrator within a few hours. Perhaps I used the wrong words to express myself, but I hoped for an explanation why this removal.

Being a member of SZ since 1998 was great and many of you became real buddies (close friends)

Good luck to all of you (only 3 exceptions)

Roel....don't go, it would do no good for you to leave, things will continue for awhile then change back to something else, please stay, your presence and input will be greatly missed and we, the rest of us will be the losers for it....you have been a valueable member here from the first, think about it and chang your mind...
Tony Rome

Roel,
Don't go. These spat's do happen from time to time as I am sure you are aware. They always die down again. Give it a week or two and we will all be full of the festive spirit and no-one will even remember there were harsh words.

You will be missed if you leave but perhaps more importantly you WILL miss this place too.
Best wishes
Tony

same here - do not go !

Roel

You are 100% right.
It's time to say good bye and open space for people with best thoughts.
My true friends always will know how to meet me.
I will stay making my humble music and teaching my music classes.

Tks Nigel
and cheers for all
Chico

Chico....Not you too...man this is devestating.... .this close to the holidays
is a doubble kick in the head.....come on you guys...please reconsider.....think about what a great loss it would be for all
to lose both of you....don't do it....hell,
I'm just getting started Chico,Roel..we need you here with us....come on....
Tony Rome

Hi Guys,
we have an old saying
"don't cut off your nose to spite your face"
my husband does it . He'll deny himself something he really wants , just to prove me wrong and win a point.
Think of all the enjoyment this forum has given over the years, & weigh up the pro's & con's of leaving.
Sometimes we write things that can be misinterpreted, and things just go from bad to worse.

best wishes
Rikki

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 11-19-2005).]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 11-21-2005).]

Roel,

Its your choice whether or not to leave the forum, and to tell you the truth I haven't followed any of the spats that take place on some of the threads. They simply don't interest me; I'm here for the music discussion - if I wanted to watch fights I'd watch the wrestling - its far more entertaining.

Running away because somebody says something offensive, shows the same hot-headedness as the person who offended you in the first place. You just need to ignore it, and maybe even feel bad and say a prayer for the critic.

Just my 2c.

I'd rather talk about keyboards.
DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 11-19-2005).]

Hey Roel and Chico,

It would be a shame to see you go. I too don't understand the mines bigger than yours argument as all of our kit is fantastic. I also don't understand the competition.

But sometimes you just have to rise above it and concentrate on the one thing that brings us all together and that's the enjoyment of our music.

I'm sure (and judging by the replies it's clear) that many people want you here and consider you as friends. Please reconsider. as I said it would be a shame to see you go.

David.

No te vayas!

Really. You have a lot of valuable insights into gear and gigging.

I enjoy your posts.

Don't divorce the family because of a few black sheep.

Beakybird

Roel you should have received an email from me regarding why I decided to do this. It wasn't because of any one posting but because of the direction it had taken.

I'd be very sorry to see you and Chico leave. If you went anywhere else in the real world where you got on well with everyone except for a few you would be unlikely to stop going there because of that. Of course we can never get on everyone 100% but simply learn which situations to avoid and how to avoid them. Online life is no different from life in the real world.

I really don't want anyone to feel they are under pressure to have to leave. Chico and Roel please reconsider your decisions. You are our friends and we would miss you.

Hello Roel and Chico if you are both still there

I would just like to offer a Senior Citizen's wisdom
Life is far too short.
The older you get, the more you realise this.
In order to survive the journey, we have to rise above it.
Being strong and purposeful keeps us alive.
Riding over the bumps can most times be very satisfying.
My motto has always been "make sure that when it's time to go, your conscience is clear, because when you're gone, there's no turning back"
Stay around a while and enjoy the company of 99% of your friends.
cheers
Eddie JOHNSON (SENIOR CITIZEN!)



------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

Roel you're welcome at club chops you too chico. Rude behaviour is not tolerated there.

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.musicchops.com/forums/

Terry,

your invitation is ambigious and incorrect
here. Nigel does his utmost not to have any
rude behaviour here either.

as to Roel,
I may not yet qualify as a "Senior Citizen"
Roel, but I sympathize with Eddie. don't be
discouraged by a few rotten apples in the
basket, to have yourself a picknic as much
as you can.
I am sure 95% of the folks here treasure
your input , as do I.
hartelijke groeten,
John

Because this is a general keyboard site,there are contributers from all boards and all levels,and yes you will get extremes,but that is what makes this site so different,we have built up friendships here with lots of good people and you two are both helpful,do you remember about 9 months ago we had an a--hole on this site who was just causing loads of trouble ,insulting people,well he deserved to go ,in fact got kicked out,because he upset everyone,Roel and Chico i missed the post in question,but i would say that you have MORE people who want you to stay,than those who want you to leave,as the song from DIRTY DANCING goes,
Why don,t you stayyyy, just a little bit longerrr,so please please please, ( i don,t know the rest of the words he he)
Its the members (all of us) that makes this site what it is, reconsider, mike

As a JUNIOR Member, i've already figured out that my opinion means little or nothing but I'll offer these observations anyway. On most boards such as this, we say that it is about the music. In truth, boards of long duration where a strong cyber-community has developed, invariably become about the people. As in all such communities, strong personalities will emerge. These are usually people who have little or no power in their personal lives OR....just arrogant SOB's that can't tolerate any opinion that deviates from their own. Most newbies venture onto boards such as these looking for "personalized" information on some product they either own or are considering owning. They soon find out the true "personality" of the board and learn that for the first year or so it's better to just read and not post (I'm a slow learner). To Roel, I would say that although I agree with your sentiments, you have to understand that in order to have the freedom to express your opinion, you have to afford the same freedom to the "other guy", no matter how distasteful his opinion may be to you. The real balancing act though, falls to the site administrator, who must decide when to pull the plug. TOO much censorship and you've got a very stagnant (and boring) board. Not enough and you'll see the rapid emergence of the "board bully". Personally, I feel that deleting a thread should be an act of last resort (personal attacks, abusive language, etc.). It's impossible to regulate ourselves into a perfect world, especially through agressive censorship. There is no denying the strong conservative leanings of this board, probably consistent with the overall age group, and the general lack of tolerance for anything other than "'ol fashioned values". That's okay, one can always just scan for tech info and move on....but, in my opinion, the viability of a board lies in the diversity of it's members.

chas

Well said!

Chico and Roel, do as I did, take a break for a while, but don't leave for good. Time is a healer, just be a lurker for a while. I agree with you, there has been some aggressiveness on the board lately, but this will backfire on their asses in the long run. I think Chony has a real good input here. Remember Terry (trtjazz) left for good a while back, but he is back and I think that is great. He has a lot of studio experience, creating nice tunes and has very good insights on many of the topics regarding arrangers and workstations.
And I still miss UD. Although he is very honest and direct both to people and on topics, he offers lots of experience and insights that we all get for free here on the zone.

On the other side of the scale I don't like topics like "Top vocalist on the zone", because at the same time you are indicating who you don't think is up there. A total stupid thread IMO. This "who is the better in whatever" has nothing to do in such a forum like this one, whether it is playing skills, entertainment or anything else.
My 0,02$

A few years ago, I was also a newbe here. I learned an enormous amount about the world of entertainment and music from everyone, absorbed as much as possible, then evaluated the information and weighed its merits. A lot of the top pros of OMB musical entertainment frequent this site, and every one of them has contributed something that is valuable to everyone else.

Not everyone is a great communicator, and everyone has his or her own personality--that's part of life, and everyone must live with this. A scant few forum members seem to have an ego as big as Texas. This mine is bigger and better than yours attitude usually comes from the minds of insecure individuals, and frequently, from folks who do not make a living as a performing entertainer/musician. Those threads are often ignored, at least by me.

If someone is in genuine need of assistance, it would be beneficial to every forum member for individuals to provide their expertise to aid that person in resolving their problem. When a new product comes available, and that product is tested and profiled by a forum member, everyone benefits--especially if the product evaluation is unbiased and thorough. No one benefits from snide, stupid, denigrating remarks.

I sincerely believe that both Chico and Roel have a lot to contribute, and both are extremely talented individuals. I would hope they will continue to contribute there expertise to this forum, but I also understand their reasons for wishing to venture into new vistas. As for me, I guess I'll stick around a while. I still have a lot to learn.

Good luck and please stop by and say hello to an old man once in a while.

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

For some reason this forum seems to have more people on edge than most and more personal attacks happen here too. I no longer participate here on a regular basis for that reason. There's plenty of other keyboard forums out there.

I'm staying right here.

There are too many positives at the Synthzone which outweigh the few negatives.

It's easy to criticize.

No matter where you are as musician there is undoubtedly someone below you as well as above you. I always learn something from all the posts, even if it is "what not to do."

Quit taking the easy road-Criticism. Contribute to the forum.

Regards,

Jerry

You've got to ac-cent-tu-ate the positive, eliminate the negative.............

Hello Roel,

As I mailed you privately already,

Don't get hit by those morons and think abouth your buddies here too.

So please stay...

Hi Roel !

Ik heb altijd met veel interesse uw verslagen gelezen over de g-70 of de Tyros2 , enz.. !
Er zijn altijd personen die het verschil niet zien tussen zwart en wit.
Dus ik zou zeggen , laat u niet doen !

Groeten van een buur !

Dirk.

Roel,
I have just mailed you a long email as I went through many of the same kinds of problems as moderator of the technics forum.
Take a vacation and then come back here and just ignore the people that antagonize you. That works for me
Best to you and yours,
Bebop

Roel and Chico,
I agree completely to Bebop's point of view and was forming an answer post in my head when I saw his suggestion.

I too have not been reading the forum in the last 4 days and suddenly I see people packing their suitcases.

Pleas take some time off and reconsider. I believe Esh has done the same thing.
Whoever was the one (or two, or three or whatever the number) that hurt your feelings and was rude to you, there are dozens others here that deserve your attention and sometimes seek your advice. You surely don't want to vanish before their eyes, just like that. Sometimes the choice to leave is not the wisest.

That said, from me there is a
FAREWELL to both of you, if finally you wish to leave , or a big
WELCOME BACK, if you choose not to leave, or to return in a short period of time.

Theodore

I would also like to be informed out of pure curiosity first and for informative reasons second, of the aforementioned thread and the nasty things that were said there.
Perhaps the whole thread could be "frozen" by Nigel, not allowing further posts, so that everyone could see what "happened" but not allowing anymore word fencing.

Of course Nigel is the undisputed administrator and can do what he thinks suits the situation best.

Now if someone has the thread saved, I would very much like to read it. please drop a notice and i will give you my e-mail.

As I just "heard" what was in the topic I decided to remove my earlier comment..

I still think though disarguments
are common and natural behaviour so
no reason to leave...

Fred


[This message has been edited by freddynl (edited 11-20-2005).]

Hello,

I don't know about what's happening here.

I don't want to discus about this topic.

I only know that Roel and Chico are fine people who i know here on this forum for several years. And i hope to see them back
here. I have much learn from Chico, we have
the same interest like bossa nova, Brazilian culture,... and Roel has made also great topics here on the forum that i always found interesting. He knows much about musicprograms, computers and PA-systems. He has always answers my questions and wrote me several times in private-email his sugestion.

Sorry for my translation (it's not always the best)

Hope to hear from your both chico and roel.(you can email me always in person also)

regards,

notlos

[This message has been edited by notlos (edited 11-20-2005).]

[This message has been edited by notlos (edited 11-20-2005).]

Why is everyone being so proper and cautious? Please try to lighten up!

[This message has been edited by zalmi (edited 11-20-2005).]

[This message has been edited by zalmi (edited 11-20-2005).]

[This message has been edited by zalmi (edited 11-20-2005).]

[This message has been edited by zalmi (edited 11-20-2005).]

[This message has been edited by zalmi (edited 11-20-2005).]

All in good spirit! ;-)

...


[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 11-20-2005).]

......

[This message has been edited by freddynl (edited 11-21-2005).]

Shades of Stanley Unwin... (Only the older UK members will know what I mean!!!)

Now see here Mr.Livingston...some of us older Yankees have a pretty gpood idea...although I simply must say......
"BRILLIANT...SIMPLY ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT"
TR

Roel and Chico:

If you decide to leave, you will be missed. If you decide to stay, I will be very pleased to know that you want to continue to interact with all your friends here at SZ and are willing to forgive the individual who has irritated you. Remember, we are all human. Some of us are simply more prone to strike out because of impediments in our daily lives. Stick with us guys.

All my best,

Rice (The Lone Arranger)

S U P E R!!! hehehe
BUYE, BUYE ROEL..........
and please..........never come back!!!

MIDIROEL,
it's people like YOU this forum needs, great sense of, taste of, and timed humour....

[This message has been edited by royandreno (edited 11-21-2005).]

Roel and Chico, my words are Gary´s words.

Armando

I can't believe this.. my earlier comment in this thread has now "mysteriously" disappeared. Well I'm not having this any more. I'm outta here.

Admin, you can now delete my user account (too).

Why the hell is everyone so "touchy" on this board? Is it really true that the older we get, the more crusty and intolerante we get?

Roel and Chico, I find your participation here like spices in a recipe some people like hot spices some people don't, but it really adds flavor to the recipe. Roel especially likes to dish out his tart and tangy flavors, but does this mean he doesn't like to consume them as well? I think so.

I think we all need to be more tolerant and patient and not get so hung up on double-meanings and percieved insults. Theres just too much of that negative stuff going on.

Please stay guys.

I was wondering were that post went.

Danny

After read this thread, finally we have undertsnad what for a shame forum this is...
I get stupid from Roel but now I see that here give only crazy people.
This is NOT one arranger-keyboards forum...
This is another probe that I DONT have NOTHING to learn and discuss here. Only old people with OLD mentality.
I dont care if you are not interested in my product, because soon you will see one surprise ( brand)

Thewolf, i agree with you 100%%%%%.

Nigel AGAIN for the 4th times:: ELETE totally my account here too!!!

Wow, The level of maturity here... I can't believe Nigel has to put up with this.

Suggestion: Nigel, you should start charging a membership fee. People generally appreciate what they pay for.

Id be very sad if roel and chico dont come back. Maybe a silly joke would help.. What do u get if u cross a bridge with a car? Answer:the other side. heres an original one of mine...whats the difference between a keyboard player and a soccer referee? One plays the notes and the other notes the play

It disappeared because it was criticizing other members by name. I have never allowed that because it causes unecessary arguements that have no redeeming value.

I will disable your account as you requested later today. I don't delete accounts because that would allow other people to re-register them in order to look like you. I just disable accounts so they become unuseable by anyone. If you ever change your mind you can always contact me to reactivate your account.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 11-21-2005).]

I think alot of the upset is caused and received via stress,some people are under a tremendous amount of pressure (not always our own making) if none of you start to think about your life, maybe taking it a bit easier or meditating or making changes,then i am sorry to say it but, you ain,t gonna live long,
I know this is out of context but,look at the man who kills another cause he looked at him,or road rage,they go to jail,then realise after why ?why did i do it? its not as if he attacked me physically? and now i am gonna spend 30 years in jail.
Bebop,is one of the most kindest person i know,he regularly sends me emails,(are you on his list) and if you have a heart some of the stories he sends will break it, you are all good people, you just may have to look at yourself in the mirror ,look at your familly photos when you are away at work,and just think what you have to be thankful for.mike

Hi. I have no idea what any of this is about, nor do I have any need or desire to.

But I really believe that most conflicts can be amicably resolved, provided that the people involved are of good will. May peace be with you all.

You're wasting your time guys, nobody's gonna change nobody. Save your time and energy - make music.

Glenn

Roel & Chico...
Your insight, knowledge, and friendship are invaluable here.

I for one have learned so much on this forum...and not just with regards to keyboards, but human nature.
Please reconsider.
Without your wisdom, and your music...I, for one, will have less to look forward to.

Just my thots....

------------------
...shboom

Participation in this forum is totally optional. If you choose to drop out because someone offended you, you can certainly do so.
Some people drop out of LIFE because it doesn't suit them. May not be a good decision, but it's YOUR decision.
Dominik, I am 62 years old, so I suppose I'm one of the guys of which you speak. By the way, you will get there sooner that you can ever imagine. You've been promoting your product here for a couple of years now. As far as I can tell it's still not finished or ready for the general market. I suspect promoting your product is the ONLY reason you are here anyway, as you have never contributed anything positive. So, as we say in the South, don't let the door hit you in the rear as you leave.
Nigel, if this is out of line, you won't hurt my feelings if you delete it!
DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 11-22-2005).]

Don....we never seem to have the time to read all of the posts on the Zone, time permitting and so some get by like the post you mentioned here....my friend, you are on the money and I concur with your words exactly....Bravo....
TR

[This message has been edited by Tony Rome (edited 11-22-2005).]

Zsssishhhh:
Now us old people are getting picked on,in this thread. I think a few of us needs a couple days vacation. and a few new styles to play with.

Maybe its my deoderant.....sniff sniff....Naaw, stil smell like burning bakelite......Pose

Pose

You're a idiot making statements like that, where do you get off yada yad yada. just adding fuel to the fire....

Come on gang enough's enough's.. We're all BROTHER MUSICIANS, brothers always spat, but its usually short lived. and brothers are the first to turn and defend the other when the chips are down....

Please let this be the last post.......

Loungelyzard

This is amazing. Do we remember back at the beginning of the year when there was all this talk about how boring the forum was becoming. Comments were made about the changing face of the membership and the immaturity of some of the newer members.

Well, I guess some of the kids have finally gotten mad and are going to take their bats and go home (an Americanism, sorry). I'm 55 and don't feel I'm an oldie yet, but I certainly agree with Don M ... see you boys.

Well I think everyone has had a chance to say whatever they needed to say and everything ends up ending at some time. So on that note I am closing down this thread.

But I'm always sorry to see longtime members and friends leave the forum. Whenever you feel that you can return you are always welcome to.

I have been criticized in the past for not being extreme enough with my censorship on the forums, but I strongly disagree. I will always censor offensive and abusive postings but I will not try to outlaw difference of opinion. Just like anywhere else in life you must manage that yourselves. That is simply a matter of being human.