[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
RF I agree with ya buddy I like it light myself



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-14-2007).]

Regarding the weight of arrangers, I used to carry heavy gear around 30 years ago, because there weren't any options. Today there are, and today I'm 30 years older, and today I'm moving my equipment 3-6 times a week.
The arthritis in my right wrist won't let me play weighted keys, even if I preferred to (but I don't). Weighted keys make it more difficult to emulate instruments.
I don't think of today's arrangers as flimsy and I don't recall having any problems with any of them, except the Roland G800. And btw it was pretty heavy. If you take a PSR3000 and beat on it like you would a Grand Piano, yes you will tear it up, but that's not what they are designed to do.
It's pretty easy to scoff at us old-timers who don't want to lift heavy gear. Trust me, we get there far sooner than you would ever believe.
If it weren't for arrangers, I would be probably be sitting in some office all day, counting the hours til I could get off work and rush home to spend a few hours playing music in my spare time.
I DEARLY love the Roland G70, but had to pass on it, after borrowing one for several months, because of the weight. As much as I love the sounds, styles and most features, it's too big a compromise. Jury is still out on the Korg PA800, but at least the weight is right.
Regarding arranger modules, I had great success using the Ketron Midjay with a light-weight controller. There were a few compromises with control, but really not many. Sometimes I wonder why I got away from that. If the PA800 doesn't work out, I will probably go back to it, and then eagerly look forward to the next whatever.
DonM

Don I miss my MIDJAY also....Although great as is with a few additional Player NEEDED features Ketron could really cash in on a KILLER module unit...otherwise I agree with everything your sayin......so when you dumpin the Pa800

Some of us old-timers disagree with you Don, but that doesn't mean we want to carry heavy gear either. I no longer play unweighted keys... I use a 26lb 88-note hammer-action Casio as a controller for my Yamaha 9000 Pro and I either play a digital piano or a grand piano otherwise. This gives me a much more consistent feel no matter what I play, and I can get far more expression out of a graded-hammer keyboard than any other.

Casio's new PX-200 coming out in early March will feature 128-note polyphony, graded-hammer action 88-note keybed, triple-strike piano, arranger functions and SMF playback, and it will sell for around $699. And it will still weigh 26lbs. For the pianists among us this is more attractive than a Tyros III or IV or whatever other 61-note rehash Yamaha comes out with.

That Ketron MidJay does look sweet.

[This message has been edited by Esh (edited 02-14-2007).]

I don't think modules are limited to keyboardists. I know several midi guitar players who still use the Korg i40M and others playing through an arranger keyboard for lack of a decent module. There are also midi wind/horn players who use modules of various brands. I started with the Korg i5M, and when the gig called for it, I had the i5S. When Korg released the i40M, I jumped on it as well as the is40 and eventually the i30. For a time, I had the Roland RA-800 with the G-600. I currently use the i40M and I just sold my PA1XPRO (weight issue) and I also use the PA60. I have the GEM Genesys XP, It's an amazing module, but it doesn't sound like the PA1XPRO, the T-2, or the G-70, the sound that I want. I'm going to upgrade my keyboard and I want a complimentary module. There are styles that I've been using for years. The converted styles do not convert well to the MidJay, or I would be on it in a sec. I tried some converted Korg styles on my friend's MidJay, and even after tweaking, they were no where near the quality that I would take out to gigs.
Sorry for the rant. I want a quality module!
Ciao,
Jerry

Hi Jerry,
couldn't agree more. Gives you controller of choice, be it 61 ,76, or 88 note keyboards, guitar controllers ,accordian whatever.
I had 3 of them midied to my Disklavier
( midi acoustic piano) at one stage, Technics, Roland & Korg arranger modules.

Unfortunately they got dated, because the companies stopped producing them.

Demand may have not been there mainly because, non of the stores over here in Aust. stocked them, internet as we know it today, did not exist.Only way one could find out what was on offer was to buy expensive keyboard magazines, which mainly focused on synths, samplers & workstations.

What hope did an arranger module have.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerry T:
[B]I want a module version of the PA-800, G-70, and/or the T-2.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE it if things were lighter, too (I'm over 50 myself!). But I am unwilling to compromise on the stability and quality of action. Control is the issue, dynamics, the ability to pound it if you HAVE to without the darn thing moving. Remember, if the keybed is moving up or down even a little while you play, that is adding or subtracting from the force you are playing with, thus impairing your accuracy.

That may not matter to some. I know it does to me. As a pianist initially, and then a Hammond player, Rhodes player and some VERY heavy synths (anyone remember the CS-80?), my whole technique evolved around keyboards that stayed still while you played them.

One thing you see a LOT nowadays are keyboards perched on flimsy X-stands. One thing that most older keyboards understood was that you needed legs AT EACH CORNER, preferably splayed out slightly. Much more stable....

What's the workstation you see played on TV the most? Probably the Motif ES8. Weight? 63lbs (28.3kg). Seems most of those seasoned pros understand about stability.

I understand that as you get older, solo portage gets harder. That's just one more reason why working in a duo or bigger is better!

While it seems that the sounds and styles of an arranger are of paramount concern to most players, here (rabidly defended against ALL criticism!), unfortunately, the actual thing you PLAY (not listen to!) seems to be completely unimportant. Far better to play a lesser sound with greater accuracy and control than the other way around......

Gosh, Diki. Judging from your vast amount of knowledge on practically every subject, I would have guessed you to be much younger......just kidding, guy. Truth is, I'm with you 100% (80% of the time ). We all know by now that you don't suffer fools lightly and that's okay (to a point). I've already stated in one of Russ's threads from long ago that you are one of the people I would most like to meet in person; sooooo, if you're ever up this way (North Atlanta burbs), stop in and I'm sure that between the two of us, we can sort out most of the world's problems (keyboard problems, anyway) in short order. If necessary, we can always call SqueakD for a quickie consultation. Keep up that sparkling banter, bro. You make the world a smarter place.

chas

Right, Chas. Nice to have intelligent, reasoned contributions.


Thanks, Diki!

(PS know any folk music?)

"doghouse"

Anybody but Bebop know what a "doghouse" is?

I love your post, Diki...very well expressed.

You are certainly a true idealist.

In contrast, I am a more of a realist, and lighter gear is paramount in my work.

Keyboard action is relative to a person's playing style, and while your playing may be on the more aggressive side, mine is not...I tend to work very laid back, and the nice light touch of my 3k is perfect.

Good velocity sensitivity is most important, and the 3k does it wonderfully...you can press a note slow enough so that it doesn't sound...just like on a real piano.

Weighted keys mean weight, and only really apply if you are playing piano...they don't work well with strings, sax, or organ, for example.

What is most important, is that the keyboard action I choose allows me to express MY style.

I invested in a good double braced X-stand that keeps my 3k in place with no bounce, but because my playing style is gentler, it isn't really an issue.

What matters most to me, is that after a three hour gig, I don't dread having to lug heavy gear...or need a gas eating van to haul it.

While it is nice to admire what is used by the "pros" on stage and on TV, they aren't in my line of work, and, ultimately, they are only doing the same as I...using the appropriate tool for the job THEY do.

I think the ability to assess the changing music scene and adapt to it, is just as important as having competent playing skills, and those who don't, wind up with very few gigs.

Playing music (especially as a solo performer)does not appear to be your primary means of earning a living (perhaps it was in the past), and it would be interesting to see how your views would change if you were depending on it as a principal source of income.

Ian




------------------
Cha d’dhùin doras nach d’fhosgail doras.