I am prepared to change my opinion in a flash, at the first sign of any adequate demos.

What I can't understand is why Lionstracs can't post any demos that sound better than a T2 (I keep quoting the T2 just to prove that I am not just extolling the keyboard - G70 - that I own!).

They are an instrument manufacturer in direct competition with Roland, Yamaha etc., and yet somehow seem to feel that THEIR keyboard does not need a competing demo to demonstrate their superiority. In fact, they have a stated opinion that seems to say 'Don't listen to our demos, YOU can make the MS sound MUCH better than this, don't listen to the styles, YOU will have much better sounding styles than this.... and don't EVER criticize our demos, because you just don't 'get' what an open system is all about!'

Laughable.... This may possibly be how things get sold in Italy (don't test drive our Fiat, just buy it and find out whether it's any good), but I am afraid the rest of the world doesn't work that way.

All that seems apparent is that Lionstracs don't 'get' what an open system keyboard is all about, or else WHERE ARE THE MP3s THAT PROVE IT?

Any idiot with a laptop or desktop computer can go out and get B4, Hypersonic or HyperCanvas (itself way worse than a ten year old Roland GS module) and use them with the arranger they already have. Everyone reading this forum has got enough computer for an 'open' system. B4 used to work pretty well on my old Apple G3 300MHz doorstop!

The ONLY thing that can make the MS into a competitive arranger to T2 and the like is, as I said earlier on, is for ALL sections to have unfettered access to top of the line VSTi's, and for the styles to be developed for those same VSTi's. Anyone that thinks the onboard GM/GS sounds are adequate just hasn't ever played a T2 or E80, etc..

I am also concerned about Alfa's appeal to Nigel for 'protection' against this criticism. You have to understand that these people (Domenik and Alfa, and maybe even Fran, if he is still a distributer) are NOT regular members of this forum. They are representatives of a MANUFACTURER, not end users like ourselves. Their opinions serve themselves, you can take their claims with as big a pinch of salt as anybody trying to sell you a product.

We have as much right as anybody to keep the pressure on for 'proof' of their claimed superiority, and to cry 'foul' at their marketing hype. Until they can post ONE style demo that justifies their inflated price (I understand about hardware necessities, but what point is expensive hardware if the sounds and styles it plays are poor?), no amount of claims of superiority will persuade me to buy one.

Perhaps Domenik and his company don't think that hiring a top of the line demonstrator is worth the money. They ARE expensive, and precisely because the product evolves so rapidly, will need to be re-hired every time a significant improvement to the OS or sound-set occurs, but apparently Yamaha, Roland, Wersi, Ketron and just about everybody else thinks they are a necessity of business.

It's an interesting marketing concept..... you post barely adequate demos of a product and say 'But in YOUR hands, it will sound better......' and expect us to fork out a fortune just to find out if you are correct.

How about you GIVE us one, and IF we sound better than the demos, THEN we pay you for it......? No....?

Then don't expect us to trust you, either. Every other manufacturer demos their equipment to hopefully it's highest level except, apparently Lionstracs. Or perhaps, they ARE demoing it to it's current highest level, and unfortunately, that's the best it can do right now. That is what most people will infer....

Remember, these guys are trying to sell us their product, NOT recommend something that someone else makes. They make a profit from our gullibility.

Caveat emptor......

Thanks Dom for the demos with the new gm/gs sounds. The sound quality is better than what i have heard so far from the MS. I cant tell if you are using styles in the demos on the instrument or just midi files but it doesnt really matter now .You are moving in the right direction. I dont know if you noticed but there were some serious note drop outs in particualrly Vasco Guitars Midiplayer sound,and Pippo Midiplayer sound demos and odd volume changes in th others.
You might want to look at that and see what the problem is. Just honest feedback Dom not an "attack" Thanks for your efforts. I wont comment on the MS again as its clear its not what i thought it could be but i wish you the best of luck with the project.


[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 02-01-2007).]

Careful, spalding...... ANY criticism of Dom's demos is deemed an attack by "people that just don't 'get' the advantages of 'open' system arrangers"....!

Personally, I don't see anyone ATTACKING Domenik. I just see post after post going 'why does this sound so bad?' and just getting the same 'check out our NEW features' form reply. Never an answer as to why..... (other than, of course, because WE don't 'get' what open keyboards are about!).

Diki,
Now that you have explained to us that "these guys" are not regular members of this forum, perhaps you should tell us who is so we will know who to listen to.

Alfa Magica is as much a "regular member" as anyone here. He does not work for Lionstracs. He paid for his Mediastation just like I did and your claim that he is not an end user so you should take his opinions with "a big pinch of salt" is ludicrous. And what about me? Am I a "regular member" of this forum? This is still the "General Arranger Forum", or do we actually have to own a Yamaha or Roland product to pass initiation? Didn't I hear the word "elitism" mentioned earier?

So from the mouth of an actual: paying customer of Lionstracs, Mediastation end user, and I hope a "regular member" of this forum; "I am very happy with the Mediastation, both in its current state and continued development".

Footnote: the opinions expressed in this post were not compensated in any way by Lionstracs Inc., Merano, Italy. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent. oops wrong tv series. LOL

As an aside,

Ensnareyou, what is the serial number of your Oasys and is it a 76 or 88?

The reason I ask is that I have yet to find the 'evil twin' for mine and so, as I didn't see your Oasys registered under your nym on Karmalab (though you might be using a different nym there) I am wondering if you are my long lost 'evil' twin'!

For those who do not know about 'evil twins', every Oasys has a serial number and there are two sets of identical serials, one set for 88's and one set for 76's. Your 'evil twin' is the Oasys that has a matching serial number for your Oasys. So far, only 5 or 6 people have found their 'evil twin' Oasys but it's been a lot of fun looking for them around the world.

Anyhow, let me know as I would like to find the person who owns the Oasys with the matching serial to my own! Maybe we could work on some 'evil twin' music together??

Cheers..

Nigel

------------------
The Art Of Sound Website

[This message has been edited by TheArtOfSound (edited 02-02-2007).]

Live (OMB) Wersi music can be found here, http://www.yourhobby.nl/portal/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=lastupby&uid=46 they are played live (No Midi or mp3 backings) by Wersiano www.wersiano.nl and the instrument used is the Wersi Abacus.
Hopefully the laid back style will bring a sense of calm to the post.

Bill

My apologies to Alfa, I was under the impression (can't remember where I started to think that) that he was part of the company. I was apparently VERY wrong, and apologize profusely..... Sorry, Alfa.

Fran, OTOH, posted a few weeks ago that he was involved with the company. That may have changed, I don't know. If it has, my apologies there, too.

--------------------------------------------------------

So, Richard, are you gigging with your MS? Or do you use primarily the VST side with other arrangers?

I can perhaps understand the reluctance to post any music done on the MS because of the scrutiny it will receive, but how, exactly, do you explain the poor quality of the official demos? It's fairly easy to download T2 and E80 mp3s from their manufacturers, and directly compare to demos from Domenik's site. No comparison, IMO...... Perhaps you can point me to a demo that DOES blow the competition away?

It is just of great concern to me, and many others here that have to listen to Domenik's constant crowing of superiority, that NO proof of it exists.

Most of us are probably aware that we could use a Receptor to provide a few VST sounds, and use a mature, mainstream arranger to achieve a very similar capability to the MS, with none of the problems that seem apparent in the factory demos. We 'get' it..... open systems COULD be very useful. But only if they works at least as well as the alternatives....

It is interesting to take a trip back in time through domenik's posts (gotta LOVE that search engine!) all the way back to 2003. He's still using the same lines - 'will sound better soon, after new update, blah, blah, blah'.....

Next year in Jerusalem, eh?

Hi Spalding1 ( or Worth from Korgforums, I know that you are the same guy..)

the new demos that you heard are made from standard midifiles, played with the Linuxsampler.
Close the Mp3 demo you have the link to listen/download the original midifile too and test in your keyboard too, then you can make the comparation.

About some clips you are right, this problem come sometime out when I use the Rezound audio editor for record: http://rezound.sourceforge.net/
Now seem that they have fixed this bug too and from the next demos I think this will never happen, OR i have to use the Ardour, but is a little more work, because Ardour dont have integrated the Mp3 encoder/decoder.

Yesterday we have release the new ISO 1.4, but in the next days we update it again, because now again new features.
We add the Audio Player Groove box too, it mean that in the Audio player we canb start play one audio groove file ( unlimited size, streaming fronm HD) and when we press the MS key: LOOP, the MS will automatically looping, like a groove box.
When one of this file is Run, you can also preload the next Groove file and press Enter.
When the old grove file arrive to End point, will start automatically the new groove file, of cousre automatically looped.

Nice feature too..if someone will play Groove box dance files and playing it over with the keyboard another sounds, without use the Audio arranger styles.

Cheers

DIKI I accept apologies.

But about Ms I can tell you only this only we who are having this keyboard know what MS is really.

I'm playing with this keyboard live from May 2006. I can tell you that is really good for me. I never had problems with it.

Styles that I'm having prepared are playing professional and better than any my keyboard before. I had: I3, Gem Sk760 Gem GENESYS pro. I had on one gig also TYROS 2 and PA1 PRO. I can say all this keyboards are good. But for my needs is the best MS.

I'm really sorry that you are meaning so abut MS, but for that must have music shops big big merits. Also problem of shops is that they are not having educated people for this keyboards and they are afraid to sell that.

Maybe near in future will be somebody so brave to sell that. But this is complete different story.

Best regards.

Nice to hear that the T2 and G70 rule