After seeing so many people post on Synthzone what features they want in an arranger or workstation and that even if it did cost more they'd most certainly buy one, I'd like to pose these questions to fellow Synthzone members.

1. Who here owns a Wersi OAS system, Mediastation, Oasys, NEKO, or any other high end arranger or workstation keyboard that costs in excess of $5K.

2. Who has bought an arranger or workstation keyboard that costs in excess of $7K.

3. How about $10K or beyond?

I'm not referring to a synth or keyboard you bought 15-20 years ago because back then few workstations, keyboards, or synthesizers cost less than $5K. In today's marketplace, who has shelled out this kind of money for the new high end keyboards? Please do not list computer systems, software, etc., just keyboards made within the past couple of years (that doesn't mean 5+ years ago either).

I'm not posing these questions to start a pissing contest, its not a contest. I'm just trying to see if there are truly as many of us here who have committed to buying a high end arranger or workstation when the cost is high. I'm guessing there are relatively few of us who have but I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.

I'll start with my list of high end arrangers and workstations:

Wersi Abacus Duo Pro V7
Lionstracs Mediastaton X-76 Expanded
Korg Oasys



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 12-23-2006).]

WHY......No one is raising their hand is what I would like to know?

Fully loaded K2500S with all options and about $2k in library for it (bought back when it WAS the top-of-the-line workstation). It STILL does stuff nothing else can do....

Got about $7k tied up in a computer system with audio cards, audio processing cards (LOVE those UAD plugs!) peripherals and VST instruments like BFD, Ivory, Atmosphere, Halion, etc., etc.. (Just the computer, not outboard like monitors, mics, etc..)

I don't argue with you because I can't afford them, I'm just looking at the likeliness that after spending $7k+ on a hybrid, someone will have one with a two-years down the line CPU and hardware, for $3k, and what I already have can get me through that waiting period...

Back in the late 70's, early 80's, you had to have$20k+ to get a Yamaha FM keyboard. Then came the $2k DX7.... THAT'S what I'm kind of anticipating will happen to hybrids. There is only three out at the moment - MS, Neko and Wersi (Oasys doesn't count, because it is not Open). No major players at all, yet.

I'm going to get one, no doubt about it. But I (and probably most without really deep pockets) am going to wait a bit and see what happens.

Of the three keyboards you list, one (the Oasys) you are already posting about how you are likely to get rid of it, one (the MS) you have already acknowledged that it is STILL a 'work-in-progress', and only the Wersi gets the nod as a complete instrument....

Not a very good batting average for, what is it, nearly $30k's worth of keyboards? ($16k for the Abacus, $8k for an Oasys76, $5k for an MS, about right?)

Fully loaded Kurzweil K2600S bought it six years ago, also approx 2k in sample cd's and the rest of my comment is an echoe of Diki's..

I would like to add that I spended much more on guitars then I ever will do on keyboards.

Fred

I have got a fully loaded computer with a Roland A37 attached....a software based arranger. It works for me. It sounds better than any hardware based workstation or arranger....my opinion.

You are definitely reading more between the lines than what exists. I never said any of these keyboards weren't "complete" machines... All three do far more than any other synth, workstation, or arranger made today bar none. Yes, there are some things that I need and want I'd like to see in future upgrades, but that doesn't make these keyboards "incomplete" or "works in progress."

The Oasys I truly love the sound of and the real time controls. Where it is weak for me is the sequencer and hard disk recorder. I do elaborate sequences/recordings and for what I do the Oasys isn't up to par yet. I'm sure that my needs probably exceed most users and that the sequencer and disk recorder it already comes with is quite sufficient, but for me its not. If Korg does not improve these features in a future OS then the Oasys won't be a true workstation for my needs (I stress my needs as yours may vary greatly from mine). Whether or not I keep the Oasys as a glorified synth (its an awesome synthesizer by the way), I can't say for sure right now.

Its clear to me that most of the people who have commented on the Mediastation have never actually seen or used one in person. This excludes Fran, Jonesyboy, Magica Alfa, Richard, Craig, and myself. Why is it that people who have never seen or heard the MS in person can bash the hell out of it? You do not know what the keyboard can do or how it truly sounds by hearing some lame MP3 demos. Stop postulating what you think it is, wait until you hear it or play it in person before you jump to conclusions. Does the MS need some updates? Sure, what keyboard doesn't? Domenik is working on those daily and I commend him for his efforts. You aren't about to find another manufacturer with a commitment to their product like Lionstracs and Domenik.

Wersi is the pinnacle right now but Domenik is on their heels and Wersi knows it. I'm sure Wersi won't just sit back and relax, they will also work on future hardware and software updates so that their OAS systems remain the most advanced and easy to use. They've been doing OAS style instruments longer than anyone else and it truly shows in their GUI, sounds, and feature set. For anyone, even the big three to come out of the gate with something that will supersede the Wersi, it will be damned difficult to say the least. Even Korg's Oasys couldn't do it and Korg has been developing the Oasys for the past 10+ years.

I wish luck to any manufacturer who wants to try and buck the system and come out with a premier open ended instrument. I can't wait to see what lies in store for the future!

OK, it appears some people didn't read my post clearly so I'll make it even clearer. Please do not list a computer system, software, arranger, or workstation you bought 5+ years ago. As I stated, who has purchased any of the new high end "keyboards" made in today's marketplace? I did say keyboards. I'm trying to see who here has commited to buying the newest and most advanced keyboards made today which I believe to be very few of us. Please, let's try and stay on topic so this thread doesn't go off on a tangent.

On Februari 2006, I have buyed a WERSI Abacus KS1 Pro, in White; Price : 13.000 Euro. (about 16.900 US-$)

Can't get my hands off it !

If You want to see a picture, see the link.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RwAAAHcUa76HKAc7xzWzKQHU!gJG5KZu*zd7E5nRrz1QI9fH4N8NGiClxHBAzwmi3QHG9IrCD2bvg4dixO2aqSVlaQ7PrEhiikLNBdJ8Qsw/DSC004990.JPG?dc=4675577396421046860

Best Regards, and a Merry Christmas for everyone here.

Carlo.


[This message has been edited by Ketron User (edited 12-22-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Ketron User (edited 12-23-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Ketron User (edited 12-23-2006).]

Point, and counterpoint again. Basically, your whole post, other than the first sentence, just goes to show that, other than the Wersi, NEITHER of the other two are 'complete' machines..... At $5k, 8k or $20k a pop, I expect ANY keyboard to do what it claims. If the Oasys' sequencer and recorder are basic, at best, and you describe it's strengths as "a glorified synth", that's NOT a complete machine (and it isn't even an arranger, so perhaps it's strengths and weaknesses are moot......)

And no offense, but if you read from trade magazines or from users web postings that a new Ferrari is underpowered, you sure don't need to buy one to be in a position to comment (or even drive one). Unless ALL the negative postings and examples of ACTUAL OWNERS of the MS are total disinformation (and forget Fran's examples, Domenik's - the OWNER of the company, 'fer Chris' sake! - demos don't stand up to a T2 or E80 for realism, smoothness of variation/fill transition, and quality), I think there is enough actual information out there to make an informed comment. I can hear that at the website of the company, I don't have to buy one to hear it. MP3s don't hide ANYTHING other than overall audio quality, a poor transition or lame style isn't improved by it being 24bit!

So, the MS, while very capable, is not yet a good arranger (styles WILL fix most of that, but as you said, "For anyone, even the big three to come out of the gate with something that will supersede the Wersi, it will be damned difficult to say the least"). So, not a complete instrument.

Look, I and probably more members here than you care to admit, all know EXACTLY what good VST and GIGA instruments can sound like. I don't have to buy a MS to know that. That's why there IS such a demand for a hybrid. Lionstracs have got the VST side nailed (although there isn't a whole lot of postings about it from those that DO have one), but the arranger side needs work. Ergo... 'incomplete'.

Most peoples idea of an arranger/VST hybrid is exactly that...... NOT a VST hybrid with a flawed arranger, not a great arranger with flawed VST.... BOTH MUST BE GOOD!!

From all your posts, it seems apparent that the Wersi is the only complete arranger in your arsenal. At the ultra-high-end, you expect to get what you pay for. Ferrari DON'T make underpowered cars, you get what you pay for. If the MS is not yet complete, and for it to be complete it's styles need to better the T2 and E80, etc., it isn't yet worth the high-end it commands. When the styles get vastly improved (and other basic features like OTS get implemented) it will THEN be worth the money.

Most of us cannot afford the luxury of buying one of these things, just to find out if it works. EVERYBODY that buys one, or plays one, has to post here and go 'Oh My God! You have GOT to get one of these!" and the manufacturer website has to have demos that back up that claim, before we can consider the extra money over a T2 or E80 etc., is probably going to be worthwhile. That has not been our experience so far.

In the meantime, would you be willing to go out and do a full-on gig tomorrow, solo, with just the MS? If not, please don't try to tell us that it is a complete arranger...... (and if you WOULD, how about posting some arranger play examples of yours, because I would LOVE to hear something better than the factory demos).

Look, Ensnareyou, from previous postings, it appears you are a very experienced pro player. I wouldn't dream of saying otherwise. But for you to claim that no-one has the right to say ANYTHING about these instruments unless they have actually bought one (or played it, and even then, if their opinion didn't agree with yours, you would probably STILL dismiss it!) just whiffs slightly of elitism. I am sure you don't mean it that way, do you......?

Please don't get me wrong, I do not disrespect you in any way (very jealous of your rig, if the truth be known!), I'm just trying to get a point over about the purchasing ability, and need for price/value of MOST players, and especially arranger players. If the MS's styles section and arranger OS was as good as the competition, I would already have one! And when it DOES, Domenik will be getting my order (and I hope he forgives me for the hard time I'm giving him now!), and I will be one happy camper. But I, and I believe the majority of SZ members, are waiting for the day it achieves the superiority it's price demands. Wersi, on the other hand, I wish I could afford it, but at over three times the price of my current, VERY adequate arranger is beyond my means. Hopefully, they will not let MS have the $4-5k market to themselves, but if they do, they will be a distant memory when Domenik gets his styles figured out.

Merry Christmas, and Happy Holidays to all.......

Diki,

The Oasys sequencer and hard disk recorder aren't incomplete, they are actually more advanced than any offering from Yamaha and most other manufacturers. I was just saying that for my needs, the Oasys isn't what it should be in an $8K+ keyboard. I expect full DAW style editing (similar to my Fairlight), numerous sequencer tracks (not just 16, 64 would be better), and microscope editing which it lacks. I'm sure Korg is going to change things in a future OS update but for now, it is what it is. That doesn't mean the Oasys isn't an awesome keyboard, it really is and there are few synths or workstations that can compete with it. In fact only the Wersi, Mediastation, and NEKO can compete.

As for the "elitist" comment.... you are missing the point of what I was saying. If you truly think you are getting the full picture of what the MS, Wersi, or any other keyboard is like from an MP3, you aren't. Until you play and hear the keyboard in person, you'll have no clue how good or bad the keyboard is, what its GUI is like, and what its real time controls and features are like.

I would not dismiss yours or anyone elses opinion if it was based upon fact, but as it stands now your opinion is merely based upon some weak MP3's, not from actually playing the instrument. My suggestion would be to play one in person, then come to an informed conclusion.