I have been playing music on and off, for a long time now, and I still haven't figured out what the sustain is for, I have used it once or twice, but was never found the compelling need to, as I see other players use it all the time.
The way I see it, if I want notes to keep playing, I just keep them pressed until I want them to stop playing, and then I let them go. Also, if i want notes to keep playing even after I have let them go, then I would press the sustain pedal, but why would I do that if I couldn't use my hands for playing other notes? Ofcourse, I might want to push a keyboard function button, but in a plain old wooden piano, why would anyone use sustain?
Reiterating my thoughts, if you press the sustain pedal, to keep a note/s playing, so your hands are free to do what not, then wouldn't the next notes you press also become sustained, causing too many sustained notes? or is there musical reason for that, which I as a musical novice, am not able to fathom.
Thinking about it, I do see one place where I might use it. If i wanted to have a chord sustained, and move my free hand to a far off chord, leave the sustain, press the next chord, thus giving the illusion that I have moved my hand at the speed of light. Am I on the right track?
Even though I have advanced quiet a bit in the improvisational level, there are some gaps in my musical knowledge, and this is definitely one I want to fill. I keep seeing people using the sustain pedal all the time, I have never required it myself.
Please explain.
Thanks in advance.
Sincerely
Benz.

Making optimum use out of a sustaining pedal is a completely separate skill to master, since you have to ensure to notes don't become too 'blurry' (although sometimes this effect is desirable).

The main purpose of sustaining notes is to either to 'soften' the music, or to maintain a sound while you use to fingers to play elsewhere. I wouldn't be able to survive without one, and always take my electronic pedal to my job as an accompanist for singing lessons.

Make sure you learn how to use it, because knowing how to sustain notes is hugely important.

The sustain pedal is a piano technique. If you study piano, you will get all the "in's and out's" of the mechanics. You have the right idea - just use it when you want the notes to "ring through" till you say NO ! It makes for a more legato style that fills up the air space more than without it.

and if you are playing hard piano, it softens the keys somehow for the fingers...

I would use sustain more if I had three feet.
I like my right foot on the lead volume pedal, and the left to trigger vocal harmony. I have tried multi-pedal setups, but find myself having to think too much about which foot is doing what.
I've finally gotten to where I really don't have to watch, or think about, what my hands are doing, and too old to learn new tricks.
Sustain is a valuable "weapon" though, particular in playing piano. It helps notes ring until the exact time that they should stop.
DonM

Benz - addressing part of your last message about sustain - from which I quote-

"Thinking about it, I do see one place where I might use it. If i wanted to have a chord sustained, and move my free hand to a far off chord, leave the sustain, press the next chord, thus giving the illusion that I have moved my hand at the speed of light. Am I on the right track?"

Well Benz -
Actually when one uses the sustain pedal - the hands don't just give the illusion of moving and changing chords at the speed of light - they actually move at close to warp speed. This little understood phenomena was first documented on the set of star trek when they were filming the keyboard player in the Enterprise lounge during one episode- and much to their surprise during video playback at 1/4 speed for editing - the player's hands appeared to move at an extraordinary rate of speed not quite visible to the naked eye in real time. They further noticed that it happened simultaneously with depression of the keyboard sustain pedal. This probably explains why when they show the hands of actors playing piano during the filming of a movie - the music is often way different than their hand positions would indicate.

Strange? but True?

Mike in Alaska on New Years Eve

Thanks for (almost ) making me laugh. I was also wondering how actors could play the piano in this way...

Mike,

LOL

and again

LOL

Thanks for spinning this discussion beyond the speed of "light"ness

To others:
I am going to plug in the sustain pedal, and give it a try. The idea of having a chord sustain while I place my hands on another part of the keyboard, getting ready for a different movement, is slowly sinking in. I will give it a try, for piano playing.
But am I right in thinking that there wouldn't be much use for it, when using the arranger board with styles? Unless I want some right hand keys to sustain.
My next question is then, do you pro players use the sustain pedal much (is it crucial) while using the arranger (as opposed to piano style playing)?
JimJamJammin:
What kind of accompaniment are you performing that you cannot survive without the sustain pedal?
Thanks.

I make my living playing, and I too, would have a terrible night without the sustain pedal. This is because I ALWAYS play an original, live chord accompiniment with my right hand - with or without the arranger playing. I started playing keys on a Fender Rhodes, and a Moog (left hand) for bass, so my right hand is very used to providing all the nessisary chords for the song. If I have the arranger on at all - it's mostly to give me some EXTRA goodies that two hands can't produce. It's NEVER the whole arrangement, and I almost NEVER play a single note melody with the right hand, unless it's a specific solo or an identiy "lead line" that everyone expects to hear.... Like the organ solo line in The DC5's "Because". The tune is dead without that signature line.
So, I guess the answer is - I play like a piano player with the right hand, and not a solo player. Without the sustain, I'd have to use organ technique, and I'm not as strong in that department. It's much harder to change chords smoothly on an organ without sustain. Some fingerings are just too far apart to do without hearing weird dropouts.
Ooooop ! It's 8 O Clock - gotta go babysit the drunks - it's amature night !

Uncle Dave,
Thanks for your reply.

Can you please clarify, my "arranger speak" does not measure up to yours.

"This is because I ALWAYS play an original, live chord accompiniment with my right hand - with or without the arranger playing."
So does that mean you are playing a melody on your right hand, with or without the arranger?

"I started playing keys on a Fender Rhodes, and a Moog (left hand) for bass, so my right hand is very used to providing all the nessisary chords for the song."
I know I have read you talk about this before, but I never really understood it before either. So are you saying that you are a left handed person? or that you use the right hand for chords? If you use right hand for chords, then would that mean that the Full Keyboard mode in psr2k is your preference?


"It's NEVER the whole arrangement, and I almost NEVER play a single note melody with the right hand,"
Whats a single note melody?

" unless it's a specific solo or an identiy "lead line" that everyone expects to hear.... Like the organ solo line in The DC5's "Because". The tune is dead without that signature line."
Whats a signature line (the first line?) ?, and whats DC5?

"So, I guess the answer is - I play like a piano player with the right hand, and not a solo player."
Whats the difference between a piano player and solo player?

This questioning may be too demanding, if so just ignore it. If you don't mind, please do answer in layperson language, as it will be much appreciated.

Thanks to all.

Benz

I think I can answer 2 of your questions to Uncle Dave. By "single note melody", he means just playing a single note with the right hand. Usually, this might be the vocal line. Uncle Dave plays chords and harmony notes with his right hand.
By "signature line", I think Dave means a certain passage, bar or melody that is integral to a particular song. In other words, everyone would immediately recognize the song when you played that part. I can't think of a good example.
O.k.... never mind.... I'll just let Uncle Dave explain for himself...

Tom

Thanx Tom - that's mostly it!
OK here goes......
1)"This is because I ALWAYS play an original, live chord accompiniment >>
***I play the full chords with my right hand, mostly because I used to play BASS with my left hand before arrangers were invented. All I really need is a simple drum beat, a Bass tone, and a piano tone to play any song I know.

2)If you use right hand for chords, then would that mean that the Full Keyboard mode in psr2k is your preference?>>
*** No - I still use a split configuration so I can finger more intricate chords with the right hand that enhance the tonality without making the aranger cough & spit up. Full mode gets wacky sometimes with lots of passing tones or "substitute" chord voicings. I play very simple with the left, and add spice with the right.

3)Whats a single note melody?>>
*** Tom hit this one - Single notes at a time, like a singer would do with a melody. I want to hear MY chords and rhythm - not just the arrangers "stock" rhythms. Maybe that's why I like the more simple approach - it lets ME add the "color" and life to the arangement.

4)Whats a signature line and whats DC5?>>
*** Tom's right again - there are some songs like "Satisfaction" and "Day Tripper" and "Pretty Woman" that have very identifyable lead (solo) lines as a "hook" or signature to the tune - you pretty much HAVE to play these lines if you do the tunes.
DC5 refers to "The Dave Clark 5" - a British Band that came to the states in the 60's during the invasion. They were very much like the Beatles, and are one of the few examples of a band where the name of the group was NOT the name of the guy out in front of the band. Dave Clark was the drummer !

5)Whats the difference between a piano player and solo player?>>
*** A piano player is used to creating a "full arranmgement" within the chord structure of a song. That's why piano is such a complete instrument. It can do melody, harmony and rhythm all at the same time. Tough to do on a flute, for instance.
So - a flute player would be a solo instrument. Some players finger a chord with the left hand, and let the arranger do all the rhythmic work, while they play a solo line with the right hand (like a flute sound). This will sound ok, but can get predictable and repetitive as you play the same pattern for different songs. That's why I play my own chords OVER top of the arranger - that way I won't sound like every other user of the keyboard I have. Each pattern becomes "specific" to my style for the song, because I'm doing it live & fresh each time.

At first, happy new year to all
Uncle Dave,
sorry for these questions but I am a young owner with keyboards and I try to understand the different playing modes.

You play in a split mode and you play the bass with your left hand; with your right hand you play the chords and the melody but ?WHICH HAND? do you use for the recognition of the chord (for the accompagniement parts of the style)?
Do you play with the accompaniement parts take off?

I would appreciate a lot if you can clear up the mystery.

I'll be as simple as I can -
I very often turn OFF the auto arranger and just play the bass part MANUALLY.
Sometimes, when I leave the arranger on, I STILL play the full chords with the right hand because it adds "my feel" to the song.
I treat the rhythm section (everything to the left of the split point)as a group of sidemen, and NOT the feature.
Some of us played solo entertainer gigs long before the auto stuff was around. This is how I began, and it's very natural to me to be the bass player AND the piano player at the same time. Auto accmt is not always a helpful feature for me.

Thanks again, for your indepth reply. However, I am still a little confused about some things.

>>1)"This is because I ALWAYS play an original, live chord accompiniment >>
***I play the full chords with my right hand, mostly because I used to play BASS with my left hand before arrangers were invented. All I really need is a simple drum beat, a Bass tone, and a piano tone to play any song I know. <<

@@My question now is, (similar as STAM's), when you do play the arranger accompaniments, how does the arranger know which chord you want it to support?, or how do you let the arranger know?

>>>2)If you use right hand for chords, then would that mean that the Full Keyboard mode in psr2k is your preference?>>
*** No - I still use a split configuration so I can finger more intricate chords with the right hand that enhance the tonality without making the aranger cough & spit up. Full mode gets wacky sometimes with lots of passing tones or "substitute" chord voicings. I play very simple with the left, and add spice with the right.<<<

@@Does this mean that you have L, and R1 voices ON? And again how would the arranger know which chords you are playing, if you play a simple bass with your left, wouldn't the arranger get confused?
So you're playing bass with left hand on left side of keyboard, chords on right hand on right side of keybaord, and where is the melody being played then?

Pardon my ignorance on this. Let me tell you a little bit on how i play, maybe you can relate to me that way. When I play (and I am improving constantly), on the arranger I use the left hand only to pick which chord I want the accompaniment to be. Then once the chord is selected I leave the left hand be, unless I have voice L on, in that case I press hard or soft and keep it pressed until I don't desire voice L anymore. And with my right hand, I play the melody, which is usually a bunch of keys in the chord.
For example, if the chord I pick is C, then my right hand goes playing Cm, C7, CM7 key combination melodies. But these melodies are not "solo key presses". They are usually multi key presses, even the chord sometimes, or other chords derived from that base chord.
On the xp60, I play the bass line with the left hand, and the chords, and melody on the right hand. And when rps is turned on then i use the left hand to pick the rps key as well as play bass one octave lower, where rps is no longer existent.

Thanks again, for your patience.

Sincerely
Benz

If I play the Bass part manually, then the arranger stays OFF. If I allow the arranger to play - then I finger a chord with the left hand, but ALSO play the full chord/melody with the right hand.... just as if the arranger was off. I don't depend on the arranger top provide the feel... just the backing.(I almost NEVER use full kb mode for the arranger)
I don't play many melodies - I sing the melody. I hope this clears this up - I can't say it any simpler than that.
I admit that I use arrangers a little different than alot of other players, but I get alot out of them, and they provide me a tool, with which I can build upon to make interresting "live" arrangements on the fly.

Mostly, I rely on a simple drum beat, because I'd rather play the bass myself, anyway. I'v explored the strengths of the psr2k, and so far - it's best suited as my back-up band in 1)split mode - NO left hand sound.... or 2)split mode, MANUAL bass.

Uncle Dave, If you use your right foot for the sustain pedal, what do you use the left foot for?

Elementary, my dear Fran, since both hands and one foot are busy, he must use the toes of the left foot to count off the songs.
DonM

I have to stand on SOMETHING !!!!
Fact is - I hate having to balance on one leg all night. I use two pedals (connected)sustain & harmony on/off - both are triggered with the right foot.

LOL

Thanks Uncle Dave, that pretty much clears it up,
and thanks guys for the humor,
sometimes I wonder if i bought the arranger just so i could get an excuse to read your posts

hahahah, you guys crack me up!
I wish the best New Year to everyone, and pray that everyone is able to find peace, and forgiveness.

Only keyboards with piano synth capability
or actual pianos (acoustic or electric)have
SUSTAIN pedal input.
The two basic pedal on a piano are Sustain originally called 'Sostenuto' by the Italian inventor & Damper (originally called 'Una Corda).
The sustain pedal stops the individual key dampers (which stop the strings vibrating) from returning to the strings hence sustaining the sound until the pedal is released or the string stops vibrating. For full use of the pedal look at some older piano music in semi-clasical vein. You will find under the staff the sign Ped._____* The 'Ped' indicates step on the pedal, the line is 'hold'and '*'indicates release pedal. Probably some use could be made of sustain in using guitar sounds but for the most part it is for Piano sounds. Organs, strings & wind instruments don't have sustain (i.e. the sound doesn't carry after the note is stopped). As far as the damper pedal on a piano, it reduces the volume of sound only. On pianos with three pedals, I think the middle one is the clutch, but it's not required with the new automatic transmissions.

The middle one is Sostenuto. I allows to hold the notes while playing new notes that are NOT sustained. But a clutch would be good too.
DonM