I, like Fran, can't beieve that Mike's ratings are even close to what dozens of my customers here at my music store and myself personally would be able to agree with at all. I've not even received my Version 2's as of this posting (however, they are do to arrive by UPS today) so I also think that you might be running a lower number operating system. Even then, the styles and sounds are very good to my ears although I would agree that there should be more available from Roland by now to compliment the G70.
As most of you know, I sell Yamaha, Korg, Ketron, Generalmusic, Roland and Casio arrangers and I would put the G70 right up there with any top quality arranger for sound, styles and functions.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

quote:
Originally posted by kbrkr:
What the hell do I do now?"

Maybe you could look at the Genesys xp module and a controller keyboard?

I have played G70 in the store, and to my ear both the sounds and the styles that I have tried sounded excellent. I would take issue with the excessive reliance on touchscreen for navigation, and a few other things (you can search for my recent comments on this subject), but not sounds and styles.

Of course, I don't own the instrument, and perhaps Mike has come across some really bad sounds and styles, which give rise to such a negative review.

However, i think there is a different explanation, and it has to do with the fact that liking sounds and styles is an extremely subjective matter. You may very well like them like me, or you may hate them, like Mike. The only solution is to try the instrument yourself.

You can read this forum, and check out what people's gripes about this (or any other) instrument are. Then, when you play it, try to pay particular attention to those concerns, and decide whether they will pose problems for you or not.

Good luck,
Alex

Hi

I am not suprised to have stirred up a few astonished replies to my comments, but I stand by what I said.

No, I don't hate the board at all. It is a recent purchase and it sounds and behaves pretty much exactly as I expected in every respect. So far I am generally pleased with it.

To clarify why I seem to be adopting a contradictory attitude on this instrument - i.e. there is much I dislike, yet I still bought it & say I am happy with my purchase:

- My G70 is running OS2. I formatted it's internal memory before loading this, and replaced all factory data with the latest OS2 stuff also. It is therefore sounds and functions the same as you will get in a newly shipped one.

- When I first had it, it was running the original operating system and contained the original factory settings. It sounded so bad straight out of the box that I am amazed that anyone bought one at all. Side by side with my existing VA-76 it sounded much worse than the VA (and I don't have a high opinion of the VA's sound quality either).

However, if you called up a corresponding tone on both instruments, it was obvious that they essentially sounded the same. It was the factory settings (mixing, FX etc)that were the main problem, rather than the inherent tone quality itself.

- I bought the G70 specifically to use in on stage in midifile player mode, with keyboard parts (splits, layers FX etc) plus vocal harmony settings linked to each midifile in a set of user programmes. The G-70 does this job supremely well.

- Used in this mode, it can be made to sound pretty respectable, albeit with some effort. Each manufacturer tends to have their own distinctive sound quality, and I accept that users will have different tastes.

Personally, I find that Rolands arrangers generic sound quality seems "old" and "tired". I also find that the overall sound seems cluttered with not enough "air" around each individual tone. I generally prefer the punchier, clearer sound of Korg instruments. To me, the difference between the two brands is rather like listening to an MP3 copy of a CD. It's essentially the same music, but with some of the subtlety taken out in the Roland's case.

- As an arranger, whilst it is a big improvement over the VA range, the G70 still has too many limitations over how easily you can control the basic style play functions - no individual "fill" buttons probably being the biggest shortcoming. The "autofill" function is OK in it's own way, but isn't an adequate substitute for the real thing. There are other issues here also, like the lack of flexibility in terms of which break is allied to which main style division etc.

Even if the quality of style programming was good, these restrictions still remain, and are, in some cases, a function of hardware design. In my situation, these problems didn't matter too much as I don't intend to ever use the instrument in true arranger mode.

I would point out here that my comments are not based on any lack of practice in using style play arrangers. I used to gig an old Korg i3 with a band for years, exclusively using it in style play mode (and also extensively road tested many of it's obvious competitors over the years).

There is no way that I would attempt to use the G-70 as a substitute for the old i3, mainly because of the G-70s style control limitations. The old i3 is still infinitely more flexible here, despite appearing simpler on the surface. (I won't get into a debate here about comparisons on style and sound quality between the two, because that isn't the issue).

Although I never owned a G1000, I get the impression that there are still certain functions and degrees of control that this instrument offered that the G70 cannot emulate.

Roland are not the only offenders in terms of forgetting the basics. Korg themselves went backwards in some respects with the later i30HDD (owned one - couldn't get on with it - got rid and kept the older i3) and PA80. They forgot the superb panel ergonomics of the i3 (lots of BIG good feeling buttons in exactly the right place) and made mistakes with some of the basics like not allowing the "bass inversion" button setting to be saved as part of a user programme (i3 could, i30 and PA80 can't -latest PA1X operating system can).

I mention this in part to show that I am not a "Roland Hater" in any way. Each manufacturer has their own ideas and ways of doing things. It just seems sometimes as if they never look at each others products. There often seem to be so many "obvious best" ways of doing certain things that wouldn't be patentable, that I'm surprised that manufacturers don't copy competitors best ideas more often.

My move to a midifile based way of playing was a concious decision. It turned out that the Roland (initially a VA76, now being replaced with my new G70) seemed to be the best tool for the job. Hence I put my money where my mouth was :-)

I appreciate that there are a few other instruments that may have offered the midifile + live keyboard parts that I was looking for, but I passed over some because (for example) they might have had pitch bend wheels instead of the lever that I prefer, or other similar issues. Doesn't make the Roland better or worse - just nearest to what I wanted.

There is a lot that is very good about the G70. I very much like the look and feel of the operating system. The new touch screen is excellent and Roland have generally got the mix of hard buttons versus touch screen controls about right (with the exception of the lack of "fill" buttons mentioned earlier)

Sound quality seems generally on a par with the VA series. As well as the additional drawbar organ section and guitar mode (haven't explored that yet) the G70 offers some additional new sounds, but loses some of the older ones - some of which you will miss if you already own a Roland.

Drums in particular are an issue here. Although the kits on the G70 are OK, there are less of them than are on the VA. However the G70 is supplemented by the very useful ability to swap out specific parts of the kit (change to a different snare & bass, for example) and to fine tune each individual drum instrument. Despite this, I have still not been able to exactly replicate some of the better sounding VA kits - notably some of the "Standard" kits that carried over from the G1000 and the VA "Standard 1" kit, which had a particularly good snare sound for some styles of music.

The G70 vocal harmoniser also appears pretty good on early aquaintance.

The new sequencer is excellent and very easy to use. File handling, memory usage and the USB facilities are excellent and the instrument is generally very easy to set up and programme.

Because there is so much that is good, I just feel that it is a shame that the instrument doesn't sound better, and that it has such severe control restrictions over the main arranger functions. There are a lot of subtle refinements under the skin, but the basics just aren't right.

It's a bit like buying a car that is fitted with every accessory, option and gizmo under the sun, but discovering that the basic vehicle itself is nothing special.

Anyway, I hope this makes my view clearer! My advice? Play one yourself in the manner you would intend to use it. If you like it - buy it!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MikeTV:

(and I don't have a high opinion of the VA's sound quality either).

This particular comments says it all to me......if you don't like Roland VA sounds, why bother with their next board? I happen to LOVE the VA sounds and am sure that I would the G70 also.

zuki

Hi Zuki

The reason that I bothered with the G70 is the same as I bothered with the VA. It does the functional job I need it to do very well.

I think that several other keyboards I have either owned or tried out sound better than these two Rolands. However, it is possible to make them sound acceptably good and they offer the particular functionality that I wanted.

In other words, I am knowingly sacrificing some sound quality to get the specific functionality I was looking for.

All instruments are a compromise. The G70 was the most suitable compromise I could find at the time, for the relatively low price I paid. That doesn't make me blind (or deaf) to it's shortcomings though.

Regards - Mike

Where/how did you listen to the SR-G01 sounds?
I looked for demos/preview on the web, but I didn't find anything.

o3bor
http://www.selskabsmusikeren.dk

Thanks Nielshs!
But I cannot find there the sampled loops that Dreamer was talking about.
Do you have another source to suggest me, Dreamer?

I have to say that, were it not for the 80's inspired styles, the G70 would come close to the perfect keyboard. And you CAN change them, either by buying new ones (MidiSpot have some EXCELLENT styles optimized for G70) or converting older Roland styles, or converting other manufacturers' styles (probably easier to do on the G70 than any other arranger).

What you have to understand about these kind of reviews is the kind of person writing them........... Is the glass half full, or half empty? The REALLY telling question that MikeTV answered was E. Would you purchase another G70?

Despite the panning he gave it, the answer was YES!. So I guess the glass is half empty.

My major beef with the G70 is mostly ergonomic and control changes from the G1000, and reading MikeTV, he obviously misses the layout from his old Korg. I think, though, that this tends to point out the fact that, once we are comfortable and familiar with a particular interface, it gets very hard to adjust to something that, from a fresh player's perspective, is just fine.

Quote "The lack of proper "break" buttons makes it a none starter in terms of the most basic style control functions" just means that Mike is probably unaware that OS2 re-introduced the Break/Mute function, and tied it to the AssignSW by the left hand.

Quote; "The new touch screen is excellent and Roland have generally got the mix of hard buttons versus touch screen controls about right (with the exception of the lack of "fill" buttons mentioned earlier)" The fill buttons are in a cluster of four in the Style Control section. They double as Variation selection, all you have to have is the Auto Fill-in button enabled and as you select whether you change variations or return to the same, a fill is triggered. You can also trigger the variation and fills from Rolands excellent FC7 seven button pedalboard, making for a pretty good hands-free operation (I HATE having to stop playing to hit buttons!).

I guess the thing you need to realize is that, despite the glass being half empty, MikeTV didn't go out and buy a different glass.

But if anyone from Roland is trolling, here, if you don't want the G70 to wither on the vine, get some of the hippest programmers you can find, and bring out 50-100 new styles that, at least, compare favorably with Tyros2 and other 21st century arrangers.