Hi Experts
Can anyone out there tell me why you never see the Casio styles available to share anywhere on the web? There must be a lot of them... I listened to the WK-1800 and thought it had some nice styles. Why hasn't any one started collecting & sharing Casio styles - and converting them for use in other arranger keyboards? If they are available, where can I find them?
Tom

I agree with you Tom.... The styles on Casio's new models are pretty good, and the one's on the MZ are EXCELLENT! It is odd to see that no one is sharing or exchanging styles. A while back I was at the UK site for Casio and I went to a discussion forum and if I remember correctly someone mentioned that there was supposed to be a site for Casio users to exchange styles.. It's worth investigating though...

Squeak

The reason that Casio style sites can't be found is that Casio is new to the upper end arranger market. Arranger styles, support, and sharing are all demands made by end users. Until recently, Casio's keyboard marketshare was simply low end keyboard techno toys so the number of end users demanding support and arranger styles is infinitesimally and unprofitably small.

If the MZ2000 takes off, and if Casio values and fills customer needs for additional styles, then its only a matter of time before their end user customer base will grow large enough to begin message boards, style sharing, style conversion and the rest.

But for now, they can't compete with the big boys. If you buy an MZ2000, then you get what you get at purchase time and that's it . . . forget about getting more styles until Casio sells enough units to make their arranger style market profitable (and that could take a very long time).

The best you can hope for right now is that someone can figure out how to convert other arranger styles into Casio's MZ2000 format so you can use them. Of course, Casio could throw a lot of money into developing a huge base of arranger styles and support in the hopes of luring customers from other manufacturers. But customer brand loyalty (as seen on Synthzone) makes this highly unlikely.

Probably the best marketing ploy Casio could make right now would be to develop a style conversion program that handles most of the available formats and simply give it to all of their MZ2000 customers for free. That would relieve Casio of immediately having to develop styles for a tiny unprofitable market and help satisfy customers at the same time.

Sorry, but I've been in marketing and technical communication for the past 25 years, and this is just the way it is . . . its just business.

Hi

How is the Casio style format? Can anyone mail me a Casio style? And perhaps a midi recording of it too?

Jørgen
js.dk@mail.tele.dk

Hi Stevizard,
Thanks for the reply - and I tend to agree with your comments. But, I don't own a Casio. What I'm interested in is getting the styles from the Casio's to use on my Roland, Technics or Yamaha keyboards. I know Casio doesn't sell style disks (yet), but I'm surprised somebody hasn't sucked the styles out of existing Casio and converted them to other formats. People seem to have done this with all the rest of the major keyboards.
Hi Jorgen,
Since I don't own a Casio - I don't have any styles to send to you. If you get some, and are able to convert to another format, please let me know.
Thanks
Tom

Sorgen,

Is that an offer to attempt to convert Casio styles to say a PSR9000 style format? If it is, then I heartily recommend that casio owners do as you ask and send you some casio styles and midi files. If you're able to convert them, you could post them for the rest of us (said with a greedy smile on my face).

Hi

Well I do really not know if I can convert the Casio styles as I have never had one.
But I will take a close look at byte level and if possible give it a try. But I have to have at least one style.
Besides any information about the style file format would be great too. Does the manual mention anything about this subject ?

Jørgen

[This message has been edited by LindaFus (edited 12-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by LindaFus (edited 12-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by LindaFus (edited 12-07-2000).]

OK Linda, I get your point. Since I don't own a Casio (never have, likely never will) I can't speak from personal experience about Casio. I was speaking from a marketing prospective, and saying that Casio wouldn't make a huge effort developing arranger styles until it became profitable for them to do so.

A built-in (FREE - like I said) converter does help but they've got a long way to go before Casio instruments will be on a par with Roland, Yamaha, and Korg. In fact, not a single Music Dealer in my area carries any Casio products at all -- no demand -- no market among professional and semi-pro musicians, just amateur home users. That's probably why they're being advertised in toy catalogs. (Say, does your MZ2000 also have "Magic Keyboard Lights?).

<== Hmmmm ==>

Good points, Linda. The quality of a product and the market's perception of it two different things. We all know Casio has an image problem, but you see the MZ-2000 for what it can do for you. The Casio MZ-2000 has features not found on other arrangers and features found only on more expensive arrangers. It competes well on the merits against other arrangers in its price range. If it had vocal harmony and mass storage, it could compete at the high end. There is certainly nothing about Casio that would suggest they could not compete at the high end if and when they chose to. The lack of Casio styles on the Web is due primarily to the recency with which Casios have accommodated custom styles and the fact that they are not badly needed since abundantly available Roland styles can be used.

Hi,

I do not disagree with your maketing perspective of Casio.

I do take issue with incorrect information about its products. I would not comment on any product I was not knowledgable about because many folks read these messages and can become very misinformed. I mean no disrespect to you and hope you understand my comments about it.

Apparently Casio is trying to get into the pro area and only time will tell whether they succeed.

Is my MZ2000 is supposed to have Magiclight Keys too? Is that what them blinking lights are for?

I have not seen the MZ2000 advertised in toy catalogs yet but ya never know!

I checked the manual. No magic lights! DARN I have been ripped OFF! %$&^%(*^&???

Take care,

-Linda

Hi Clif,

I guess I am the underdog and need to hide my Casio label more hahaha. Its like a scarlet letter to some folks. I don't see any other folks on here that own one, so its hard to give it any credibility. No matter, I am enjoying its features and will be happy to give information to anyone that asks.

Hopefully the MZ2000 will become more familar in the music world, in the near future and more support will appear.

Take care,
-Linda

Hi Linda

Before I knew about the MZ-2000, I had been complaining in this forum about the lack of continuous controllers, particularly on Yamaha equipment. I was tickled to see the MZ-2000 with its abundance of continuous controllers. Also, the inclusion of aftertouch at that price point is significant (the PSR-740 lacks aftertouch). I have considered getting an MZ-2000, but that would be overdoing it. I would still want a Solton SD-1 or the like. However, I am glad someone looked into the MZ-2000 in depth and countered the unfair statements about it.

Clif



[This message has been edited by Clif Anderson (edited 12-09-2000).]

Linda,

I hope you get a lot of use and a lot of enjoyment from your Casio keyboard (no joking intended).

PS. I think Clif's in love.

Clif,

Well, at least now I can say that I've been asked. (But Linda may object)

I have successfully converted a couple of Yamaha 740 styles for the MZ-2000 by inserting them into my xg works sequencer, changing them to a standard midi file ( format 0 , and then introducing them into the 2000 via disk. I then used the "convert song to pattern" function and voila,....I have 740 styles on the MZ. They work fine there . It was a few hours of learning curve at first, as there are a couple of tricks I learned, but I can now convert a style in a few minutes. they work fine as well in the mz, except that there are only 3 fill ins instead of 4. Everything else is pretty much the same. At some point as my schedule permits, I will post these styles on a site like the great one that is on egroups.
Al M

Hi TomTomsf,

The MZ2000 hasn't even appeared in Dallas yet; the local megastores are pretty fast on picking up the new tech, but my contacts say that the new units are backordered. Looks like the CasioKids may have a hit on their return to the pro market.

See the current Keyboard mag for a review of the MZ. If I understand the review correctly, there is a studio songstyle template type function that will extract a songstyle from any section of a standard MIDI file.

My WK1800 will supposedly convert Technics and Roland styles to the Casio format, but I'm still in the exploratory stage with this new board and haven't given this a try.

Since the 1800, like the MZ2000, is programmable, I expect sites to start popping up with new sounds and styles, after a suitable learning period.

I'm looking forward to playing the MZ2000, as well as the Korg PA80 (it hasn't arrived in big D either).

- tommyde ~

Hi Bluezplayer & tommyde
What I am looking for is a way to extract the built-in styles FROM the Casio, so that they can be converted for use on other keyboards. It seems like they might be able to be saved as a MIDI file, then that can be converted to Yamaha, Technics, etc. If you would be willing to give this a try - I would appreciate it. I am not the greatest expert on saving & converting these styles, but I know a lot of us out here would like to "check out" the Casio styles and convert them to use on our other keyboards.
Tom

If someone can select the Chicago Blues style and record 8 measures of each arrangement part, and save as a Standard Midi File, I will try and convert to other Manufacturers. I recall "Chicago Blues" was a pretty good pattern.. Fran

Please email to me.

am I reading the MZ2000 material right? that there are only 10 positions in which to store "user" rhythm patterns? Anyone know if it's possible to delete/overwrite the factory patterns?
thanks in advance for any info...

Yes it is true that the board only allows 10 user styles. Then again my PSR740 only lets me store 3. For both I simply store the additional user styles on a floppy. I also keep a copy in my comp's hard drive in case the floppy goes bad ( or I lose it ). There is no way I know of to delete the factory internal styles of the MZ-2000.
Al M

Stevizard

Just had to thank you for your Magic keyboard Light on the Casio comment

I have not laugh so lound and long in years ..Many Thanks A.G.

Alex

The funny part is that I actually bought a Casio with Magic Keyboard Lights for my 87 year old mother. She likes them. Now if they'd only put a "Magic Hummer" in it.

Steve

I think you're on target. The following should work, until a conversion program appears for the Casio.

Record the Casio style as a SMF. You only need the measure length of the style pattern.
Save the Casio SMF to floppy. On boards like the Casio WK1800, you would have to do an intermediate step of MIDI playback/record into an external sequencer that has SMF write capability (the WK1800 won't write SMFs - aargh!)
Take the floppy with the Casio styles SMF and load it into your other brand arranger keyboard.
Make any changes to the sequence, based on your other keyboard's sequencer capabilities. Arrange track assignments for the accompaniment sounds etc. You want to match up the accompaniment parts tracks with their new counterparts in the other brands keyboard. Make a note of where the accompaniment parts go, for future transformations. You will probably also want to change the GM sound location numbers to programs in the other brand's board that are better.
Save the edited sequence as a style in the new board.

Haven't tried this yet, but if your other brand of keyboard can read SMFs, and save sequences as styles, I don't see why this wouldn't work.

- tommyde ~

The MZ-2000 won't take your accomp creations and save them as midi files either GRRRRRRRR
. I like this board but this has to be the dumbest thing going. They did so well with all of the sequencer editing capabilities and then .. they dropped the ball. Unlike the 740 and all of the other Yamaha arrangers, when you use an internal style on the MZ to record a "sequence" on it's internal sequencer, the arrangement parts that are playing do not send note data to the internal sequencer. The only data that does get sent is the actual chord changes and pattern changes that you record in real time ( and can modify in steps as well ). Of course anything you play over and above is sequenced and stored in the normal way. That means you cannot modify any of the note data produced by the auto accomp. Not only that, but you can't put the "note" data on a disk either and modify it in an external sequencer. The only thing that goes out onto the disk it whatever you played over and above the autoaccomp.. Thanks Casio...Oh sure I save a LOT of space in the internal memory, but who cares.. That's why there is a disk drive ... You have to send the auto accomp data while its actually playing out to an external seq in real time. Then, when I send any edited data back to the MZ, the settings are all different and I have to adjust the entire mixer and voices again.. It works I guess and I can still record the styles as SMFs by recording the proper amount of bars in each part. There is one other way though to get the styles out of the board. You can save the style INFO ( notes and all ) onto a disk and the MZ allows you to save it as a Casio style ( which at this time anyway is useless ) or as a Roland or Technics style. someone with something like EMC styleworks can then easily convert from Roland or Tecnics to a Yamaha style.
Al M


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-09-2001).]

I stand corrected. The style conversion feature in the MZ is to convert Roland and Technics styles TO the MZ format, not the other way around. So I will not be able to convert TO Roland and Technics styles. Have to do it by the old " record the arrangements to an EXTERNAL sequencer ( see my post above ) method. The feature is a plus for me though I guess if I can obtain some good KN or Roland styles. I already have a bunch off them converted for Yamaha though, and if I convert the styles to a midi file and save that midi to disk I can still use the song to pattern creator in the MZ to reproduce those styles. Having the original Roland or Technics styles themselves would save me a lot of work though because I could avoid the conversion of a style to mid file step and avoid the song to pattern step in the MZ as well.
Al M

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-10-2001).]

Casio always had a parameter Accomp Out, turn to on and your arranger can go out to midi and I think it will enable you to make a SMF.

Thanks for the reply. Yes it does. I'm well aware that I can do that and already have done so using an external sequencer . The individual track and note data is sent out to an external sequencer via this method. What I cannot do that I want to be able to do is to make the smf from the Internal sequencer. That you cannot do ( with the arrangement pieces ). In other words , unlike the PSRs, the MZ does not write the specific notes used in an arrangement to an internal midi track. Therefore, you cannot alter any of the previously recorded individual note data from each track of the arrangement. Only what you play over and above the arrangement data ( melodies, harmonies, leads etc ) will be saved in true midi fashion ( etc ) using the internal sequencer. Even if it did send the midi data thru internal channels, the internal sequencer does not have multitrack recording capabilities. Thankfully, My xg works 3 software does. But of course the Mz is not an xg board, so in the GM conversion process, after I do my note editing and return the sequence to the MZ via disk, the voices and parameters are incorrect, and I have to readjust the parameters of the entire sequence. It's very doable, but is a waste of a couple of steps and valuable time. In spite of this, overall I still prefer many things about this board compared to my 740. For building user patterns it is excellent, and the song to pattern function is great as well. Even the internal styles are growing on me.
Al M

I posted the first 5 MZ 2000 styles onto the discussion group at the Yamaha PSR styles group. They are converted to smf files . I do not have the capability to change them into PSR 4 variation styles ( I can do 2 variation conversions only ) but I'm sure someone there can . As I get time I will convert all of the MZ2000 styles to midis and post them there and eventually onto my own future website or E / Yamaha groups site so that anyone can download them and convert them. Naturally, if someone does convert all of them to PSR or other styles and sends them back to me I will post those as well.
Al M