Hi guys. I know I'm "new" here, but I've been lurking for a few months. I noticed a good amount of software workstation type posts in this forum, most of it windows centric, with a bit of mac, so I thought I'd throw out some more things. Last night, I got a chance to check out the agnula livecd version, and I was pretty impressed. A livecd is like a demo of an os that doesn't install something to the hard drive, so you can check out programs, etc w\o overwriting, partitioning, or needing another computer. It *does* require a bit more ram(since its basically a big ram disk), but from the specs I've seen floating around here, people shouldn't have too much trouble.
I was *very* impressed with how far these distributions have come. They include some very nice synths, with some very impressive sounds, rivaling some I've heard in $500-$1000 keyboards. Are they on par with a motif es or gigastudio? Probably not. I haven't really delved into all these have to offer, but one thing that did impress me a lot was JACK, an audio transport server. When a jack enabled program starts up, it registers inputs and outputs. This allows you to connect inputs and outputs using a virtual patch bay. Its pretty cool, and probably a lot like reWire, which I haven't used.
Now, I know you're asking, what's so different about these distributions vs. regular linux? Well, each of these distros is tuned for audio. That includes the realtime patches, etc. I won't go into a ton of details, but the home pages provide more information.
Why am I providing these links? Well, like I said before, I've seen very little linux information on the boards. I don't have a lot of money, so I like free software. (Truthfully, the fervent software distro is pay, but its not that expensive. I'll pay to support things I like. And *no*, I *don't* pirate things. ) These distros each come with a large variety of software that is in varying stages of readiness. The fervent distro has very stable releases, and agnula was very usable. I spent a good bit of time with Hydrogen, a drum machine, and was very impressed. They include pretty much everything you'd need to do audio, from synths, vsti's, plugins, drum machines, sequencers, editors, to other applications, such as video editors, broadcasting tools, VJ & DJ tools, and more, depending on the distro.

If you've never used linux before, I encourage you to check out some articles:
Ardour, a DAW: [link]http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7796[\link]
Softsynth roundup, slightly old:
[link]http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6320[\link]
Linux [link]MIDI:http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8050 [\link] <- has links to the other parts of the article at the end.

Here's the distros that I recommend. If you can't find the livecd links and don't want to deal with repartitioning or installing on a second machine, let me know, and I'll post the current livecd links.
[link]http://www.dynebolic.org/[/link]
[link]http://www.agnula.org/[\link]
[link]http://www.ferventsoftware.com/[\link]

Thank you guys for the information that you have all shared, its been an informative few months for me.
Allan

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"I considered laser eye surgery.... but it couldn't be used offensively."
--Lore Brand Comics

I really apriciate your posting, Allan!
In deed there's a lack of linux informations here. The most distributors try to support 1st Windows, 2nd Mac OS, 3rd Windows, 4th Mac OS, 5th Windows, and so on...

But there were AND are other operating systems like TOS, Magic OS, Risc OS, Linux, Unix, Sun OS, OS/2, and so on. And the most of them were really better than Mac OS and ALL are better than Windows. So, I've learned that the most people love crappy things and would prefer invest their money for trash than for golden wares.

Thank you for posting some fresher informations! Linux has a strong future in sight. I can't wait any longer...

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 05-20-2005).]

Its interesting, I heard from a dealer that cubase was developed on linux for its stability, and then put on mac and windows, but i can't substantiate this. i also find it hard to believe, since cross platform development for gui is a bit difficult. then again, a well structured code base could do it... so who knows. not me.
I'm only 27, but I do recall a number of the machines you've mentioned on these forums. I can recall wanting an Atari ST when I was a kid... finally getting a color computer 2&3 from radio shack... playing on the Amiga in the store.... being amazed that my new 486 pc didn't have 4 part harmony built into it when i got it. Unlike a lot of my generation, I've used most of those alternative OS', and find them better than windows in a lot of ways. Unfortunately... applications and market share go hand in hand. In fact, I've already been laid off from one OS that went defunct, Tru64. The good news is.... windows is getting there. They've come a long ways, and new competition from mac and linux will only make them stronger. Now, if only manufacturers would let us choose which OS we wanted to run, and not give us to run this hardware, we only give you drivers on this platform.....
I personally can't wait for a dual-core AMD 64 solutionwith 8 GB ram. Windows won't be able to touch that, at least till longhorn comes out. Its use of SMP resources is horrendous, and its memory management mediocre at best. (Can you tell i like shinies?)

Allan,

Thanks so much for your post.

I am a big fan of free/open software, and as a teacher/researcher, Linux has been my first OS for more than a decade, The Linux distributions in our days have achieved such a level of friendliness, that many people start to think seriously in making the big step towards an exclusive use of Linux. Good "macro-examples" are the huge steps of Brazil and the public administration in Muenchen (Munich, Germany).

Let me just mention that in alternative to using LiveCD distributions, you can install as many complete OS systems as you like over a host main OS, through sorts of virtual machines, through a piece of software like this one, for example: http:://www.vmware.com/ . Right now I'm running simultaneously Linux Mandrake (my main OS) and a layer with Windows XP Pro over it.

Apart from the fact that Linux is free, and there is a huge community producing software for this OS, one of the biggest advantages is stability: many many points above any Windows system that I've tried...

As I never investigated Linux potential for musical applications, I'm certainly going to have a look to the links you provided. Thanks again,

-- José.

[This message has been edited by Route 66 (edited 05-20-2005).]

hello stalag..it was actually created on the mac op system..cubase grew from the first... Steinberg 12, a program written specifically for the atari using a derivative of the mac operating system, this developed into steinberg 24, then cubasis then the original cubase, i actually owned an atariST and steinberg 12 and 24, before migrating to Cakewalk..someone can correct me if im wrong, but Cubase has never actually been developed on the Unix/linux platform, linux wasnt even a gleam in daddy unix's eye at the time.anyhoo there's some completely useless and trivial information for you!!!!

peace, out

An assistant of Steinberg personally told me last year that they thought about creating a Cubase for Linux but I've never heard any new about this project. I told him "It would be fine to make music on a Linux system with the quality of Cubase Audio! Maybe this will help to make the PC able to run in a professional music studio!"

You can't imagine how he looked at me in this moment...big eyes and an open mouth...hehehe

Yes, in deed, I'm still running on an Atari Falcon 030 with Cubase Audio (still with its original hardware dongle). I won't change to Windows as long as I'm using the better system here...
The only musical thing that I trust to a Windows system is using it as an tape recorder for stereo waves...

Oh, by the way, linux is even able to run on an Atari Falcon 030...

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 05-21-2005).]

I still have a pair of Amiga's in here but don't use them anymore. One is a 2000 and the other a hopped up 2500. I used to use one to run the studio and the other was the back up. They were really great for music and graphics.
Anybody want to buy them?
Bebop

If I had the money I would do it without any hesitation. I know that the old systems had and still have their special abilities and charms.

At first I'm trying to get a second Falcon as a backup system because there's no support anymore. I have a 19" rack case which is waiting for the Falcon's mainboard. Also there are 3 HDDs waiting for their fitting into the system - my new HD recording system...

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 05-22-2005).]

Hi,

since you are talking about Linux & audio, a
few related news:

a new version of LinuxSampler: http://www.linuxsampler.org
just came out.
For those that don't know it's a free, open source software sampler that can play samples in .GIG format (GigaStudio) and stream them directly from disk with very low latency thus allowing for sample sizes of dozen of Gigabytes instead of a few mere Mbytes.

see here for the announcement: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=7356318&forum_id=12792


For example LinuxSampler is installed by default on the Lionstracs Mediastation X-76 ( http://www.lionstracs.com )
and it it perfectly integrated through a custom GUI where you can use the same GM/GS patchselector (touchscreen + buttons) to change the Gigasamples you play on the keyboard in real time.


btw, the Mediastation X-76 uses JACK too: http://www.lionstracs.com/modules/Static_Docs/data/gui/midivst.png


Gigasamples have features like keyswitching where you can map eg the lower keyboard keys not to play sounds but to change the timbre of the sounds by triggering other sounds.
So for example you can switch from staccato to legato strings in real time achieving very expressive and realistic playback.

see here for a few articulation examples: http://www.garritan.com/control.html


As you probably know most of today's film scores are composed using not real orchestras but using gigasamples. For example one of the trendsetters in that area was Hollywood composer Hans Zimmer (Gladiation, Lion King ..). He uses a stack of gigasampler machines to render his compositions.

you certainly have heard of sample producers like:
Vienna Symphonic Library: http://www.vsl.co.at/
Garritan Orchestra: http://www.garritan.com
Post Musical Instruments: http://www.postpiano.com
East West: http://www.soundsonline.com
Project SAM: http://www.projectsam.com

Lionstracs is working on a new arranger software http://www.lionstracs.com/modules/Static_Docs/data/gui/arranger.png

that will be able to unleash the power of Gigasampler in real time.
So Gigasamples plus the right styles will bring styles to a new level of realism.


The critics that still believe putting a "PC" or better (a PC mainboard) in a keyboard is a crappy idea and "embedded keyboards are here to stay forever will over time realize that it's simply not possible to compete (doing proprietary embedded boards + proprietary embedded firmware) with the power of mainstream PC hardware and open source operating systems like Linux.

As we see Korg is using Linux on the OASYS (but no opensource apps and it uses an embedded ARM chip while the synthesis is done on DSPs AFAIK) but it cannot keep up with the flexibility of the Mediastation since it's fully programmable by software.
(For example you cannot use LinuxSampler on the OASYS to stream 200 voices of large gigasamples from disk etc).

I think the fact is simple: traditional keyboard makers are afraid of the PC since it would give them no competitive advantages since "anyone" can do it plus it would hurt their own product line.

For example imagine Yamaha doing a Mediastation: with the right software it can be an arranger, sampler, synth, workstation, HD recording unit, mixer, FX unit whatever.
So what would the purpose be to buy a Tyros
(which costs only a little less than the Mediastation X-76) if you can get the "Yamaha Mediastation" that does everything.
They could make it much more expensive than the Tyros, but then it would face competition from the Lionstracs Mediastation.

It's not an easy equation to solve.
The fact is Linux and PC technologies are disruptive technologies. For a certain kind of products (especially where much computing power is needed) they render proprietary embedded hardware+software obsolete.

BTW: for those that do have an emotional attachment to Windows and audio software for Windows, the Mediastation can run Windows XP
too.
http://www.lionstracs.com/modules/Static_Docs/data/mediastationXP/MSXPB4.JPG http://www.lionstracs.com/modules/Static_Docs/data/mediastationXP/MSXPmenu.JPG

But I believe it's the wrong OS for a keyboard: too crash prone, costly, messy licensing scheme, not perfect for real time audio, source code of the operating system is not available so you cannot tweak it, it's impossible to perfectly integrate standalone apps (Cubase, Gigastudio, Kontakt etc) into a keyboard UI because those apps are not designed to be used in a live keyboard etc.

Like it or not, tt's time to a change in the keyboard world ... and I believe the change is not coming from one of the big keyboards makers because they still try to sell you the embedded keyboards for big bucks as it was the state of the art. While the truth is most new keyboars are old soups that are warmed up with a few new sounds but still contain chips that are a decade old.

I think the keyboard future is still exciting and not becoming static thanks to a few little corageous guys

Remembed when scientists said the earth was not flat ... they were hanged ... but in the end they were righ.t it's the same with Keyboards ... only time will tell ... hoping to to get hanged

cheers,
Benno