Uncle Dave and I spent the afternoon with the KN7000. We had it side by side the KN6500. Here are my impressions, I am sure Dave will post after his party..First the keyboard looks much better live than photos.It's best feature is the sound system, loud and clear enough to use by itself in smaller areas and house parties.Next best feature...Drawbar organs..followed by a decent piano...After that, sorry KN fans,get around just does not work for me. Could't find a quick way to go to manual bass, especially in pianist mode.. The drums are identical sounding to the 6500,which I did not like[garage band sounding]...SMF playing and live play combination and switching, nearly impossible to work quickly and smoothly..It appears that live edits are too complicated in realtime play..There are many nice sounds on this board[they seem identical to the6500], but I still prefer the sounds on Roland VA's, even though it suffers with it's work around..Bass and drums ,, don't A,B the KN to the Ketron..the XD outclasses the KN7000 in this area as does the Roland VA...Technic guys and gals will continue to love this board, as long as you don't side by side with Ketron and Roland..I do think the sounds on the KN7000 are much better on average then what you will find on the PA-80 or PSR's[ sorry Donny , that includes the 9000]...We never did get the Mic and harmonizer up and running[so this has to remain incomplete till another try],The mic sounded okay, but what a bummer, NO eq for the mic[and how much does this board cost?]Engineers are taking too many coffee breaks[Is that what happens , Mario?]..Overall it is a nice board[although it also seems to be a repackage]...not for everyone, and surely not for the hard to please guys[UD]..For me..I'm still waiting for the "real" next Roland entry..Till then I'll still play the best[G1000]. what it does,it does best..Fran

Fran's right. This is NOT a new board .... just a new package with some new features. Nice features, though.

First impression was the piano sound - really nice, but probably the same as the 6500. I think the effects are a little improved on the 7k, so maybe that colored the tone a bit.
As always ... the kn has the BEST sound system out there - hands down. Clear, loud, and full range.

The physical shape of the kb is nice, but it's VERY deep in the back. Must have a large bass port or something.
The flip up lid is solid, and nice looking, and seems to work just fine in it's fully extended position. Buttons are not too far away to handle with ease.

I agree with Fran about the drums. They're bad. They sound OVER processed, and the samples do not compare with the Korg, Ketron, Roland or Yamaha. They are probably better than the Gem, but I never liked those drums either, so don't take my word on that one. Better try them both. After a few solid months with the PA80, the 7000 drums were a BIG letdown, and you all know how I feel about drums. They are third in line of importance with Vocals (melody, for non singers), bass and then drums. Everything else is fluff.

Speaking of fluff .... there's lots on this kb. Multi pads, drawbars, aftertouch … it's got tons of features for the player to fiddle with.

I'm going out on a limb here, so try not to take this personally anyone - This is the best HOME keyboard I've seen so far. If it had a real mic input and harmonizer that was acceptable, it could squeak it's way into the semipro category, but as it stands, it's perfect for the casual user who wants to connect to a pc or record/perform at home, mostly.

My reasons for this classification are as follows:
1) The mic input is terrible. WAY below par.
2) The drums are dated, and artificial sounding. The SOUNDS, not the patterns.
3) The button layout is clearly intended for the arranger player who doesn't go "off the menu" too much on the fly. This is what separates the live rigs, from the home rigs.
In a live situation - there is often the need to modify or correct things as the night is in progress, and some things were very difficult to get around while the drums were playing.

Report Card? - It's the best kn yet.

Size/Weight? - Not bad, but a little thick in the rear

Value / price? - At the home piano stores, it will be pretty expensive ... you'll have to weigh that one for yourself. I think $4000 is too much for it, and that's pretty much a standard quote according to one of my sources. For that money - I need a PRO mic input and fabulous harmony.

DO I want one? - Nope.

Will kn5 & 6 owners want one? - Probably.

It's a step up in many areas, and the USB, and recording media puts it ahead of the class in "tech" stuff. Too bad the drums sound like a Mattel keyboard.

Please don't get discouraged with this review - I DID like it a lot, but it will never compete with the others till the drums are improved, and a real mic input is put in.

This settles it for me. I need another PA80 to tide me over for a while. There will be nothing new for almost a year or so now. I've seen all the new kids on the block, and the pickin's are thin. The PA80 is the best for me at the moment. Now, I have to start bugging Korg to make the harmonizer work more efficiently - then, I'll be happier.

Good luck to all of you who bought them already .... I'm sure you love them. The bar has definatly been raised in the home market with this one, and many pros will get lots of use from it on the road, as well.

BTW - It has a good solid feel to it, but I don't think it's metal. Feels like hard plastic to me. The key action is very nice. Tight, solid, feels good. It sure is a PRETTY little thing ....... if you have the money !

As Fran & Dave posts are quite big to quote this is a reply to cover both

After just a couple of hours with a keyboard that you both shared you have both attempted to try & come to some solid conclusions as to your opinions on the KN7000 which is fine you are entitled to your own opinion & obviously that is exactly all it is.

I am a little baffled as to some of the statements that you make which only serve to make me believe you don't really know what you were really looking at so does your opinion carry much weight I doubt it.

Some of the criticisms that you make may be correct depending on the players personal choice.

But to say Quote "It has a good solid feel to it, but I don't think it's metal. Feels like hard plastic to me" Unquote is just laughable & sums up the whole statement for me.

I guess that the success or failure of any product comes down to it's popularity.

Let us look at some easy to find FACTS on Synth Zone of threads created over the last 30 days.

1.Roland Arranger keyboard Forum = 6 threads
2.Roland G1000 Forum = 1 thread
3.Roland General Discussion = 5 threads
4.Korg Discussion = 7 threads
5.Solton Discussion = 0 threads
6.Yamaha Discussion = 5 threads
7.Technics Discussion = Speaks for itself

There is not a lot more to say

Some of us really appreciate it when busy Pros take the time to share their evaluations of a new arranger with the rest of us. Most of us understand that "your mileage may differ", but now we know to check out the drums and vocal harmony before we buy.

In the interest of getting the best value & satisfaction for your money I would have thought a better idea would be to check everything out for yourself & not just the drums & vocal harmony before coming to any pre-conceived conclusions

Hi all,
I am a long time technics devotee. Every technics board I have had I have loved. I made a couple of brief forays and had a Roland EM2000 for a while and then a Korg i40m but soon went back to technics and bought the kn6000. To be fair I had already decided (before I heard it) that I would not buy the 7000 purely for financial reasons.

Yesterday I went to my local dealers to bug him about a deal on a 9000 pro. He had the 7000 in stock so I had a play with it. I like it very much and it is an improvement over the kn6xxx but not enough of an improvement. If I had the money to buy any board I wanted I still would not buy the 7000.

Now people like Johnnie will question my objectivity I am sure ( after all I only played it for an hour) but I have owned technics for years from the 1500 to the kn 5000 and 6000 with a miriad of inbetweenies. Technics is my brand of preference no question but the fact remains that the 7000 is not enough of an improvement to warrant the price. I was more than annoyed that they did not even attempt to address the haromizer issue. It was laughable on the 6000 I could understand them not changing it on the 6500 but to leave the exact same TOY on the 7000 is an insult. I KNOW they had nothing but complaints about it when the 6000 came out. Nice to know they listened. Even if they had left it off completely (because it is no earthly use in any form whatever) it would have shown at least some intent to listen to their loyal customers. The PSR 8000 which is now three generations back had an adequate Harmonizer and Yamaha have consistently improved the offering with each subsequent keyboard. Technics have done nothing about this issue. There are some excellent setup menu's to attach a digitech or voice prism to my 6000 but it annoys me that I have to faff about with this. It also shows a lack of faith in their own onboard harmonizer that they had to provide such extensive menus.

Technics do some things better than anyone else. The sound system on the 7000 is indeed amazing ...something that technics improve with every board. However in this day and age if another company can offer me an all in one quality package I won't stay with technics just out of loyalty anymore.

I played the Yammie 9000pro again yesterday while I was there and there is no doubt that I will buy this board. The styles are not as 'full' as technics but sometimes I think my 6000 forgets I am there as well....you can't hear me for it!. I will probably keep the 6000 because I do love it but I can see it being played less and less once I get the pro.

ttfn
Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony W (edited 09-15-2002).]

Hey Jonnie.c

What exactly, are you trying to say about the plastic/metal issue? Someone posted earlier that it was a metal case - I didn't think it was -- that's all I said. Sheeesh! You confuse me. I expected some negativity from you, but to pick on a point as subjective as "solid feel" is even beneath your usual low standards. If you have something beneficial to add .... just say it.
Did I bruise your feelings with MY impressions of this kb? I certainly didn't mean to. I was only giving a personal observation to those who have come to appreciate several points of view. I had lots of good things to say about it, you know.

Since you began posting (a very SHORT while ago) -- you've had very little to add in a positive way, and that is unsettling to me. Why are you constantly trying to tear down the statements of others who are genuinely trying to help the forum community?
I just don't get the anger. What makes you so disagreeable? And what does it matter to you at all, if others like my reviews. If you don't agree, fine. Just keep an open mind, and you might learn a few things from those of us that play these things every day for our living. All we try to do is share the news. I don't try to convince any one of anything. I just "tell it like it is." I'm trying to help others to "see" some things they might not get a chance to in their areas. I live in a busy musical community, and the tools, toys and studios here, are EVERYWHERE. Philly is a "happenin" place for music, and I love being right in the middle of it all.
Don't be such a wet blanket, and come on board with the gang ..... we're a great bunch to hang with, and we all help each other out. Your comments are always welcome, but let's try to keep in friendly, okay?

Always glad to see the Roland VA7 getting the recognition it deserves

Hi Fran & Uncle Dave,
Thank you for taking the time to give us an "in depth" reveiw and "look" at the KN7000.
Sounds like a nice "home board" , although I have never played any "Technic`s" KB. If there was a dealer in my area I would love to have a "look see" , but even though I`m sure the "action" is better than the "Y2K" , the price is likely to scare some people off (IMO). Still it was nice to read about it in this thread as well as other threads , so thanks to all
jedi

Frank, that's not going to happen, not for a while , if ever...Although I said that about my 73 Chev Super Cheyenne,,,I just sold this afternoon....Hard to believe, Dave?..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 09-15-2002).]

Well, you need the room for your new Mercedes, right?

1 Not too easy to get around on the fly.
obviously you are ignorant of the functions which put shortcuts to your preferred screens in flash memory under buttons instantly accessible.

2 Mic has no eq
just assign the parametric eq to it!

3 is must be really difficult to tell the difference between metal and plastic :-)

Sorry if I bruised your ego by not agreeing with all you said. Why are you so sensitive. Does everyone have to agree with you? Or maybe the problem is no one is allowed to point out the errors you post?

johnnie C. I did see the eq DSP, but I could not seem to assign it to the mic..Are you able to assign the eq and reverb DSP's on the mic at the same time? How many jump pages can you assign?You would need several. How do you bring up the jump pages? Would a list come up? If so , it seems like it could still be multiple button pushes..Fran

BTW, the dealer also stated to us that there was not an EQ for the mic..so we took his word since we could not find eq in the mic section..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 09-16-2002).]

Uncle Dave and Fran,

Thanks for your review of the KN7000. I always value the opinion of a real musician.
I was wondering if you were able to, or would be able to actually compare the different keyboards (PA80, KN7000, 9000Pro) side-by-side.
The reason I ask is, I've been using the KN6500 for over a year and I agree that some of the drum kits are very synthetic sounding, but others are, in my opinion as realistic as I've ever heard. I've only spent a few hours on the PA-80 and although it's a great board, I thought the KN6500 was a little better, but I never heard them side-by-side, nor did I have the time to really check out every drum kit or sound.
The only way to really compare is to listen side-by-side. The problem is, I haven't found anyone that carries Technics and the others.

Steven,
The Korg drums are as good as it gets. If I had to rate all three it'd be in this order:
1)PA80/Ketron
2)Roland VA
3)Yamaha
4)All the rest

As for patterns - I prefer the straight-a-headness of the Yamaha to all the rest. The XD9/SD1 sounds terrific, but they still have a weird way of advancing the variations. Sometimes (within a style) A is best followed by C and B is best followed by D. You can't just step through at a graduated pace like on the Yamaha. Korg is at fault here too. Too busy, too incoherent.

Of your three choices - I've owned all but the 7000, and I think as an overall package, the 9000pro is the best.(feature wise)
The absence of speakers (9k) makes the PA80 my next choice. The kn stuff will never be in my rig unless major drum revoicing is done, and the simple chord fingering is changed to include a basic "root" plus "third" = chord. None of this weird "one black to the left is minor" stuff. I hate the thought of using three fingers all night - it's not the way I learned, because I usually play the bass manually. Lately, I've been playing live bass and triggering the arranger with the right hand a lot more. The XD9 calls it "Bassist" feature, and the Yamaha can't do it, from what I've seen. Chord recognition is only dedicated to the left hand, I think.

Too bad you can't get to try them all at once .... they are all very good keyboards, in their own right. My impression of the 7000 suggests that previous owners will be glad to shell out the cash for this new model, based on the USB, SD card, and overall LOOKS and power of the sound.

For a plare that was used to working with quality synths in the past - the 9k is a dream machine. Tough, rugged and loaded with playable features that really WORK.
The PA80 is about midway between the two. It's powerful, and sounds great, but the feel is not as solid as the 9k, and the "glitz" of the 7k is missing. (silly stuff like multi pads that play phrases.) However - NONE of the others has a better sequence player than the Korg - Two independant sequencers - flawless operation so far too.
You've got choices, my friend - but it's better than NOT having any, right?

Uncle Dave,

Are you going to consider the new Yamaha Tyros? It sounds like it's going to have a lot of the glitz, like those multi-pads and play phrases. Plus, even better sound than the 9000pro.
That's what I'm waiting for before I pull the trigger on the kn7000.
I'm definitely not married to any particular company. I've owned Yamaha, Roland and Technics.

Have you heard anything from Korg or Roland about anything new coming?

Hey Uncle Dave!

Did you put a burr under Johnnie C's saddle? Whatever it was, you sure turned him into the north end of a jackass going south! By the way, many thanks to you and Fran for your honest evaluation of the KN7000. My dealer suggested that I stay with my KN6500 rather than upgrade to the KN7000. I really like the KN6500, but, then again, I'm just a keyboard beginner. I haven't heard any of the other manufacturer's keyboards mentioned, so I really appreciate everyone's discussion about them. Thanks again!

Peter

As I am not into writing chapter and verse here is a brief outline to your question

The parametric can be assigned to mic, and you have a separate programmable reverb.
you can save it in a flash memory and arrange the registration filters so it never changes, or use the dsp for another application and bring back the mic setting with the flash registration just when you want to use the mic.
you can put your own parametric eq in a memory for it too and load it when you fire up.

But would all of the above be really necessary if someone is only using the keyboard purely to sing along with SMFs I doubt it

A suggestion
Don't be taken in too much by what a salesman/demonstrator tells you unless he is dropping the price

Steven,
I will not seriously consider ANY keyboard that does not have built in speakers. The Tyros "add on" feature does not qualify in my book. It's just more stuff to lug, hook up, deal with, repair, etc
If i was set up more than a job at a time, maybe I'd rethink the issue, but as long as I do so many one night stands - it's not in the cards. I need light. I need fast. The rest is easy .... making the music is the best part. Setting up is what the client actually PAYS for. As a matter of fact.... I really play for free, but the setup charge is what gets ya !

Peter,
I honestly don't know WHAT'S up with Johnny. he just came out of his corner swinging one day. It'd be different if he actually ever HELPED anyone, instead of all the sour grapes he dishes out. I can't be bothered by every one who's panties get in a whirl every time I give advice. You can take it or leave it - it's your choice. Most people appreciate the effort, so I'll keep the words flowing as long as I have an opinion to share. I won't let the insignificant ravings of one person affect my day. Not if I can help it, anyway. Life's too short to argue about nothing.

Uncle Dave , when you talk "Yamaha Drums" in your "Third spot" list.......do you mean the Yamaha 9000 Pro? - Because when I got rid of the KN6500, and brought the 9000 pro, the Yamaha drums sounded superb by comparison to the K65, they really did. Hey, I'll have to check out one of these PA80's out one day - and best thing, they aren't that expensive (a little more than a PSR2000 @ £1200) (ish) may be a nice companion to my Roland Piano, because it's been a LONG while now since I had a Korg. Overdue!


Tony

-----------------------------------------

With the ever Increase in Technology, the word Impossible should be used with caution...if at all......

Hi Jupitar'
I have to agree with you. I have always been quite satisfied with the drums on my kn6000.....until I heard the 9000pro. It is one of the things that has really sold me on the pro. I am almost ready to plunge now, the only thing I am undecided on is if I keep the 6000 or not? I know I am not going to play it that much when I get the pro..... space is not that much of an issue but it seems a shame to let it sit there if I am going to ignore it.
You made the change Jupitar, did you miss anything badly on the technics? Did you regret your decision or is the pro all I think it is? Subjective I know but your insights would be appreciated.
ttfn
Tony

Hello Tony W

Yes,I had the 9000 Pro (not got it now, Part exchanged it for a Roland KR577 Piano, because I needed 88 keys and a fully weighted action).

Anyway. When I unpacked my new 9000 Pro, first thing I noticed was how different the key action was to the kn6500. They were much easier to press down, and excellent for Hammond organ gliss's (for example). Another thing that surprised me, was the weight of the 9000 pro. Yes, heavier than the KN6500...but it didn't seem much heavier at all (to me), because the pro was long and narrow (very Sexy , and my guess is that it would be easier to carry than its "stockier" PSR 9000 counterpart - at about the same weight. Yes, the Weight of it surprised me..

Obviously, one of the first main things you check out on a new board are its voices (sounds). I was in awe of this thing straight away. The Strings were lush, so were the pads ("Pro-Heaven" was superb). Organ sounds?? - brill. Electric Piano??, Rhodes?? Once again, very good, and much better than the KN6500 (My opinion of course, “as is” all what I say here!)

I really had to go a long way before I hit a sound that said "hmmmm, not quite as good as the KN" And as to "did you miss anything badly on the Technics". Well, the Oboe’s, and Cello’s on the 9000 were not as good as the KN, nor were some of solo sounds like "Cornet" for example. The Piano was 50-50….it’s just what sort of piano suits your ears.. As far as Styles are concerned, the Yamaha ones suited me more, because I am into prog-rock, classic rock, Dance etc more than big band (say), and the KN6500 didn’t cut on these styles for me. Back to the Voices, the Guitars (both acoustic and Electric) also excelled on the Yamaha, as did the Synth sounds as well. Tony, I now have a Piano, and is excellent for my requirements now. However, if you want ONE single keyboard that can do the “mostest” the Yammy pro is it. I’d say anyway. That said, I haven’t tried the SD1 so can’t comment on that. However, with the ability to add more sounds via EXP slots (and also poly on the way), it deserves, in my opinion, it’s “pro” status!

I usually check some 2nd hand tackle out at : Loot ads’ and as I write, there is someone selling a pro for £1,695, with Roland/Technics Styles etc, on a Hard Drive, and he/she includes “Speakers/Pro pack” – go figure. (just type Yamaha 9000 in the “search”). There is someone too, selling a Technics KN6000 with an expansion card for £700 Qwid Might buy that and make a profit .

Tony (T’other one!)

-----------------------------------------

What came before time? - and what comest' after it ends?.......

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the reply. Just the kind of info I was looking for and is very much appreciated.
I too check out Loot and had seen the pro ad you mentioned. My dealer is selling the pro brand new with speaker pack and lights for £1599. I have not managed to better that yet even second hand.

You are right the 6000 at £600 is a steal. My dealer offered me £750 trade in for mine. I have decided to sell it as well as I know what I am like. It will just sit there doing nothing when I get a new board. It seems such a shame so I might as well sell it whilst it is worth something. I put it on ebay as I figured that anything over the £750 my dealer offered would be a bonus You might not beleive it but a 6500 was sold on ebay last week for £1420. You can pick em up new for £1299 now! Thats why I love ebay! You just never know
Just sold my Digitech VR on there and it was bought by one half of a famous duo! Won't embarrass him by saying who but I was amazed (and just a little chuffed )
Anyway I have gone off track a little (again!)
Thanks again
Tony

Tony,
Coming in third to the likes of Ketron, Korg & Roland is no small achievement. The Yamaha has terrific drums, that's a fact. My point is that - the others are WAY above par. (remember .... sounds only here)

Overall user-playability .... the Yamaha has the best drum patterns in my book. Simple, punchy but in the pocket.