Over the years, there has been much discussion on this forum regarding individual preferences for keyboard feel, action, even key size. Some of you prefer brand X while others prefer brand Y.

Often, I hear suggested - "If only they would put that top of the line model keybed in this lower/midrange model. I would buy it in a minute". Ah - but then the costs would go up significantly!

Which brings me to the point I want to make. What really is the cost of an improved keybed platform?

At NAMM 2005, Edirol (Roland) announced a new improved series of midi keyboard controllers. http://edirol.com/products/info/pcrm80.html

One of the big selling points is an significantly improved keybed over its predecessor.

"The PCR-M80 is a revised version of the popular PCR-80 MIDI Keyboard Controller. Like the PCR-80, the PCR-M80 offers direct connection to the computer through USB, 61-Keys, 27 assignable MIDI controllers, a software editor, MIDI input and output, and both sustain and expression pedal connections. Some advancement the PCR-M80 has made over the PCR-80 includes the addition of velocity curves, switchable MIDI interface, and a new key-action found on Roland's higher-end synths. The PCR-M80's key-action has been refined to produce even less mechanical noise than its predecessor and offer a consistent, playable feel. The keys themselves are slightly more rounded to keep your fingers from tripping over the keys during quick glissandi".


In a general price search, the older model lists at $395 while the newer model lists at $375! --> $20 less!

So - they borrow a decent and proven keybed from their higher end line and incorporate it to a lower/mid-range product for less!

You don't have to re-invent the wheel and pay $200 - $300 more for a better keybed, do you?

Mark

I have a problem with generic midi controller when it comes to using an arranger - it's not very ergonomic.

Arrangers require more button-pushes than the average keyboard. Using a midi controller is fine for selecting one sound at a time from a module but with an arranger you are required to select intros, verse, choruses, endings and trigger fills in addition to selecting sounds and layers... that's not so easy when the buttons are not on the same instrument you are playing.

Then again there are some stand-alone arranger boxes like the Roland DisCover 5m or the Yamaha QY700 that require you to use an external keyboard so it's certainly possible to do so, but I like having it all in one. And not all arranger keybeds are wacked, just some.

Pro,
I can see what you mean about button pushing on a separate unit, but if I remember correctly don't some (really good) midi controllers have assignable buttons and switches. Could start, stop, and other various functions be assigned to those buttons as well? When I midi my drum machine up to my keyboard I can control the start, stop, and tempo from the keyboard. I would think it can work the other way when using a dedicated midi controller with assignable switches.

Squeak

a year ago there was so much hype about the liontracks mediastation,this was supposed to be the board of the future,up till now there has been very little feedback,i don,t know why liontracks don,t send one to georgs kaye,any good reviews coming from him could make this board take off,so what about it benno,mike

Squeak;

At one time I used a Roland EM-2000 arranger with a Kurzweil PC88mx because I couldn't stand playing the EM's 61-note keyboard. And I managed to remotely start/stop and do various things but it was a lot easier to perform when I got an all-in-one arranger in the Yamaha 9000 Pro.

My 9000 Pro has 11 buttons dedicated to selecting the various arranger verse/chorus/fill/variation options alone, not counting the usual start, stop and tempo stuff. I suppose those could be assigned to a controller but you'd have to do some homework. And then you'll want to remember how to recall all those settings on the fly on a dimly lit stage while playing... not a job I'd want but certainly not out of the question either. I'd still take an all-in-one arranger over a controller and arranger combo.

I can't answer specifically how much it costs for a keybed. We would probably be shocked at how little it costs. Most members gripe about the Yamaha arranger keybed. I do notice the difference, but it doesn't prevent me from buying a Yamaha. Casio, Roland, Korg, all make decent keybeds and at competitive prices, so why doesn't Yamaha. They do have decent keybeds for their other non-arranger models.
Starkeeper

because Yamaha seem to consider its PSRs as toys, and because of that, Yamaha put bad keybeds into them.

Hi,
pity Roland & Korg they stopped making arranger modules. I had a few of them over the years ( including a Technics). At least one had the choice of what type of controller one wanted to use with them. It's a pity Yamaha never had one.
Actually had 3 of them midied to my digital piano at one stage.
best wishes
Rikki

Let me just add another perspective to the keyboard controversy.

I'm just wondering how many of their customers are like me and don't care about weighted keyboards, or even 76 or more keys. I started on cheapo casio's so the keyfeel on a board like the psr 2000 or the tyros is a giant step up for me.
Now I'm not saying which is best, and believe me I have a sense of appreciation for you guys that have played piano for years and years.
Some good young keyboard players have never played a "real" acoustic piano. Any household can get a $100 keyboard from Walmart easier than an upright piano.

So if they made a keyboard like you want would they be able to sell enough?

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 02-09-2005).]

I don't need full weighted action, but something along the lines of the Motif, or my previous workstation, the "antique" Korg M1, would make me happier. The response and feel means a lot, particularly when I solo.

From my perspective, if Yamaha was to include an option for a better keybed, lets say for the PSR3000, and it cost me more, yes I'd buy it.

I think that this could be a good approach. Those who don't care so much or aren't bothered by Yamaha's PSR keys could pay the standard price. Those who are affected, like me, could pay a little more for better quality. How much more would it cost for them to give me the Motif series keybed, and the Motif pitch and mod wheels while we're at it ? It would make a difference to me, and I'd surely pay the extra money. I think the pitch wheel bothers me even more than the key feel, but if you've ever tried the one on a Motif vs the one on a PSR, I bet you'll know immediately what I mean.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-09-2005).]