My experiences have not been very successful when trying to use my Tyros...in arranger mode...with my quartet.

No matter what my drummer plays, the double drums muddy up the low end. Even by playing an extremely cleaned out, scaled back part-it still produces a poor outcome.

Using a live bass player hasn't worked well either, IMO. Doubling the Tyros bass part makes no sense...mutig the tyros bass part leaves the bottom open for a live bass player, but they need to learn the actual style used for every song...Which takes a substantial amount of time and effort. Not very time effective and you still don't get the range of quality bass sounds as the Tyros provides.

One instrument that does interphase well has been my sax/clarinet/flute player. This has not been trouble free, however. At first, the sax guy tried to play over the Tyros backing, which was awful. The outcome was a muddied, cluttered trainwreck. The solution that did prove to be successful was having Tom lay out entirely...then only play in the solo spots. He's had some progress when using his flute over the Tyros styles...but only modestly so.

Therefore, at the end of the day, I am simply booking myself more and more as a solo artist. The clients are very satisfied, keeping the dance floor packed all night is not difficult at all. Plus, the financial aspects are favorable to all parties.

Let me make this clear...I love playing with my band. The other 3 members are all vets who have played well over 25 years each. Two are retired USAF band members. However, given the style of music the band plays...it makes no sense for me to try and combine both at this time. The two are best kept separate.

As I look into the future...I fully expect to see the band eventually come to an end. I am 44...my other members are 39,48 and 53. I'd guess that within 5 years or so, I may be playing only solos and some duos. The band has and is one of the more popular dance bands in the Dayton, OH area...but the audience is getting smaller each year due to aging issues. There may always be an audience for ballroom type bands...but as the natural attrition continues...there will be less and less demand for a band like mine.

My solo act is skewed at a younger audience...that said, I easily can cover the oldest members tastes in any venue as well as a solo performer. The use of an arranger, the Tyros, gives me unprecedented freedom and flexibility.

Given the precision, consistency amd quality of the arranger, I only wish I'd hopped onto the arranger train a long time ago.

Bill in Dayton



[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 03-20-2005).]

I'll throw in one more comment:

My most successful attempt at an "arranger-based band" was a trio I formed with two singers and myself as the band. That worked just fine (except for dealing with the singer's egos). One time we were hired to play at a wedding and the client insisted that we had to perform as a four-piece band. We explained how unnecessary this was and the added costs but it was no use - four piece or no gig. So we hired a drummer who brought a drumKat midi controller and played percussion parts like congas and latin instrument sounds via midi off of my keyboards. That worked fine too, and I've seen other midi acts now that featured percussionists rather than drummers along with other musos, and yes they used sequences and sounded quite good.

And when I went on a cruise to Mexico last year, I saw LOTS of bands based on arrangers... they were everywhere, on and off the boat.

Interesting points here.

Just a few summers ago I worked with an oldies R&R showband that had live drums, bass, two guitars and three vocalists. My arranger provided piano, organ, sax, trumpets and strings. But, never rhythm or bass. The accomp button didn't go on until I resumed my single committments in the fall.

Augmenting live players with auto accomp would have been an insult to them and an almost guaranteed train wreck timing-wise.

Eddie

Any musician (including vocalist), should be able to play with an arranger. Being able to keep in time is just one of the basic things of playing that you can not get away from whether playing an arranger or not.

I could remember when I use to play in a band in the 90s where we use a drum machine for percussions. There was a drummer, bass player keys and a guitar.

Playing an arranger keyboard in a band there are two ways you can do it. You can play just as if you were playing a keyboard with out arranger features or you can use some of the arranger features.

I have used my arranger for drums and percussions when there was know drummer in the band. Everyone played as if the drummer was there and there was not any major differences except you miss the energy that a live drummer brings to the table.


Weather I am playing with a band or by my self or a duo, I always try to create my styles as if it were a band. I don’t use all the tracks at one time and I have 2 drum tracks one for bass and snare and the other for percussions.

I strongly recommend style creation and modification so that the style can fit your playing. This way, you don’t have to wait for a keyboard manufacture to create styles that may not fit your playing style.

My humble opinion is that I am in the music business and I am willing to make the sacrifice to sound as good as I can on a gig. That includes among other things practicing, buying the right equipment and style creation to name a few. Yes it takes some time. But once you get the hang of it and you have a number of them, it is not that daunting.
I have about 20 core styles that I use on gigs and the songs rotate between those styles.


Just my opinion

Someone on this forum posted awhile ago that the way to play an arranger with a live drummer is to have the drummer not play the bass drum, just the rest of the kit.

Hiya Esh - you are very talented (just listened to your Autumn Leaves - wow, now that is improvisation)and yes I was only joking except that I sometimes see players earning money whilst merely playing the melody line to someone else's sequenced track - I've no idea what they do if they lose their place...chuckle.
I guess you're right - it takes nerve...
Rog

I have read all the above posts, just about all are valid. But -----

After playing with live muscians for many years I did a job with an electric drummer, my guitar and voice. I learned quickly that the drummer did not follow me, I HAD to follow it.

My emotions and feel had to be put on hold. If I became excited for a moment I had t back off. If I am playing an up-tempo, let's say at 175, toward the end of the song I should be a bit higher, it's a natural feel. I do not feel this is true for latins or some contempory music. When the excitement comes the tempo must vary to compliment the emotions -- it can go back to the original tempo, but it should change to reflect.
The change is very small and should be felt. The dancers should not be aware of a change in tempo.

This can not happen with the arranger keyboard unless you program it in a sequence. But then your emotions must be turned on as the arrangement dictates. your emotion are now not yours anylonger.

My little bit, John C.

i completely agree with pianodano...bands are like being married to 4 people (ace freeley KISS) and its true, i have played in rock bands, jazz trios duo with female lead vocal and midi files, solo with arrangers, solo piano bar, in fact i have just finished a 4 year band gig, and i gotta say the stress is way out there whther its reliability issues talent issues money issues trust issues (sound like a marriage HUH!) you can only reliably rely on yourself which is why arranger boards and or midi files give you the freedom to do as you want without the constraints of other egos and abilities...sorry will now get off my "soapbox".......


peace, out

Practice, practice, practice in bands. We did that so that the song was always performed the same.

Me personally having performed during the disco era and Beach Music years, I can say that it was critical that once the "machine" (as in band) fell into the pocket, the tempo better not vary. That style of musician had superb chops (Usually of the fusion type) and the dancers were fabulous in those days and, they would trip all over each other if the tempo varied. We were not, after all, playing dramatic music but dance music.

In my mind, I believe the most powerful and saleable combo now that could make use an arranger kd would be keyboardist using sequences while playing one part live, drums and female vocalist. The keyboardist and drummer should be able to sing also. To me styles should be used only for requests of songs that are not sequenced or, off the cuff type things. But that's just my opinon.

There are drummers that can absolutely and without trouble follow these instruments, but they (the drummer) need(s) a click track. You should be able to asign the metronone out of one of the unused outs, send it to a headphone amp and then to a earpiece for the click track referrence. Anyhoo thats how we used to do it with sequencers.

The beauty of live drums is that the raw power is restored to the mix. Imo yamaha styles are kind of over produced for live work. I am not saying the styles are not good, just that live drums add a little roughage (to coin a word ?) and helps spontaneity.

Danny


[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 03-20-2005).]

Actually, I play with a five piece lounge band and use my Tyros to cover whatever sounds are needed for our cover material and donot use the auto accp. However, when we play for weddings and parties, I use the auto accp. for the dinner music and any novelty music that is necessary. Actually, play solo for this type of music while the rest of the band takes it easy.

Also, play in a trio, duo and solo and use all of the auto features. I guess my only personal complaint is that many times with the 5 piece I do anywhere from 1 hr to 2 hrs. solo and donot get any extra pay.

Ed