Thanks a lot for your opinions, my friends.
Reading you, I see some ways to go respect to these shortcomings of Yamahas.

About key feel, nothing may be done: only to buy a midi controler keyboard.

About styles, I may use OMB, or use converted styles, and so, to have richer and more elaborate styles. But I don't know if converted styles retain the dynamic and varied musicality of Roland or Korg styles. I played some converted Roland styles into PSR3000 and they sounded not so well as I would like and as they sounded in my old Roland.

I was thinking that, ten years after I had my old Roland, the best arranger kb for the buck would be a lot better. It is better in some aspects, but not in styles and musicality.

Yes, as you say, there are ways to go. But why must I do all of that work for to have a kb wich sounds out the box as I want? Why must I to buy a midi controler for to have a decent keys, to use converted styles for to have rich and not repetitve styles?

Why Yamaha can't do it by self? Yes, better keys and more musical styles cost more money, but... other manufacturers do it.

As some of you said, I may spend a lot of time exploring its Yam potential, tweaking and revoicing the styles and the sounds, and finally, the yammie will sound every bit as good as any other board.

By the fact, others keyboards have similar potential too, but they seem to sound more musical out the box without all this work.

Well, sorry if my words may be a few offensive to yamaha. It was only a emotional reaction to a disappointment.

Hi Artaher,

You have raised some valid points. Cannot disagree with you! Ofcourse, Yamaha can do it by itself if they put their heart to it. They are after all the worlds largest musical instruments manufacturer. Yamaha could easily make a portable version of their CVP-309 keeping the 88 weighted keys or using a semi-weighted 76 keybed adding polyphonic aftertouch. This will make it a true successor to the Tyros.

We should all sign a petition and place it here for Steve Deming, Product Manger of Yamaha to see.

Instead of making a Tyros II, Yamaha made a clever business decision to saturate the arranger market by offering the Tyros at half price. $3000 flagship slashed down to $1500. Yamaha fully knows this will attract customers like moths to a flame and after their initial euphoria is over, they will look into buying a decent controller. There again, a Motif ES7 makes a nice 76 key synth action controller or an S90 makes a wonderful 88 key piano action controller. More sales for Yamaha.

In the process, they have forced out all manufacturers from the mid range arranger market. How could any manufacturer hope to spend the resources on making interesting styles, add in the high quality DSP chips, include all the bells and whistles, design the custom CPU, market the product and yet hope to make any profit on an item that Yamaha is now selling for under $1400 street. They simply would bail out.

From the customers standpoint, Yamaha would have benefited us more if they used their immense technical powerhouse to make a portable CVP-309 and spent some time crafting interesting styles.

Tapas

Tapas,

Where did you find the Tyros for $1500?

Is it in the US?

Regards,
Alex

Alex,

Yes, this is in the US. The Yamaha PSR3000 sells for $1500 in the US.

You can go to www.froogle.com and search for ‘PSR3000’ and you would get a bunch of links.

Here is a rule of thumb on Manufacturer’s List Price, Manufacturer’s Minimum Advertised Price and Dealer’s Cost and Street Price.

The US List Price on the Yamaha PSR3000 is $1800

The dealers buy it 40% below list. So the dealer cost is $1080. Yamaha prevents dealers from advertising such a low price. They typically set the minimum advertised price at 20% below list. This is why you see so many PSR3000 offered at $1440.

Now, the street price is a completely different thing. Certainly no dealer is going to sell you this PSR3000 at $1080, but depending on how good a relationship you have established with your personal dealer over the years, you can often get it at 10% above dealer cost. This is still a great deal to get the PSR3000 at 30% below list which comes to $1260.

Some wholesale internet sites bypass Yamaha’s Minimum advertised price policy by offering the item at MAP and then throwing in freebies like keyboard stands, MIDI cables, benches and headphones.

Remember the thumb rule. If you are getting it for 30% below list, you have got yourself a good deal.

Tapas

Tapas,

I did not quite realize that when you talked about the "$1500 Tyros", you were actually talking about the PSR3000.

I don't own either Tyros or PSR3000, but understand from trying this out myself in the stores and reading posts in this forum, that despite some/many spec similarities between the two, the Tyros in many respects is still better than PSR3000.

I believe there is still plenty of room in Yamaha's lineup for a Tyros II, which whill have a long, pro-quality keybed, the up-to-date USB features, expandable sound engine, etc. Perhaps all that Yamaha is doing is laying the groundwork for introduction of such an instrument.

Still, I think your continued references to PSR3000 as "half-price Tyros" are misleading, and no more true than calling Tyros a half-price CVP-307.

Regards

Alex,

You are right. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I should stop referring to the PSR3000 as a half price Tyros. It conveys a distorted picture.

Let’s hope that your prediction comes true and we get to enjoy a Tyros II having a pro quality keybed with expandability. I would say bravo to Yamaha for that.

If a Tyros II does not come out by Summer, I have to take a long hard look at the Yamaha CVP-309PE. This is the one that has won my heart! I played on this again for several hours yesterday. I was in keyboard heaven :-)

Tapas

This topic came up in an email after my posting about the Lowrey Rhapsody.

20 years ago the Lowrey MX1 had killer styles. The loops were dependant on the chords that were played. Different instrument riffs moved in and out of the style depending on the chord. A song using the same style played and sounded differently started in the key of "C" than it did in the key of "F".

Yamaha could take a lesson from the old Lowrey MX1.

Just my little two pennies worth.

The points made by Artaher in his original posting are very valid. I have both a tyros and a Ketron XD3 and this is my findings and opinion after comparing them side by side.

In general the Yamaha styles are much simpler but this suits me as I both sing and play as much of the songs I do that I can. On the XD I often cancel or lower a voice in the style to leave more room for me.

However, the variety within a style in the Yamaha is poor compared to Ketron and Roland as you can have variations for different types of chord that you play. This makes programming your own patterns very long winded. You dont have to have them different as there is a generic setting that will adjust the major pattern you record for playback with other chords.

In addition, the Ketron also has the "Intelligent Arranger" feature which cuts out certain of the accompanyment instruments when you are playing the right hand melody. For example, many of the Latin styles on the Ketron are really great with lots going on especially in the brass sections but it's too busy to add your voice or solo instrument to play trhe main melody. However, you can set it so that the second you play the right hand the brass (or drums, bass, lower, accomp 1,2 or 3 voices whichever you choose) dies down and mutes.

If you are singing you just choose a soft pad sound for the right voice and play this whenever you want to cut out some of the instruments.

The above results in far more variety when using styles and gives a much less "automatic" feel to your accompanyments.

Having said that, there are many things on the Tyros which I like such as the vocal Harmoniser (Which doesn't distort for me using either my 25 year old EV or my 20 year old Shure 58 mikes). I also like the navigation and the mixer and quite a few of the voices but these are just personal taste.

If Yamaha added the intelligent arranger function and allowed variation of styles for different chord types then I would stop using an external module for its styles and just use the Tyros.

Oh yes, and please Yamaha can I have a semi-weighted 76 note keyboard, fully functioning USB, get rid of the disco lights and top rotor settings in the leslie sims in the Tyros II (just in case you're listening)

Merry Christmas All

KFingers

Hey Kfingers,

I have a Tyros where are the disco lights?

Tom

Tom,
I think that Keith is trying to imply that in a dark environment the Tyros looks more like a Christmas tree than a keyboard (...but this means also that it's the more appropriate keyboard for this time of the year )

Have a great Christmas, everybody!