Tomcat,
Here is a page I saved with a ton of links posted by both Rikki and Frank R. related to the soft stuff:
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Author Topic: Piano Soundfont Sites
rikkisbears
Member posted 08-12-2004 06:28 PM
Hi Guys,
these are some Piano Soundfont Sites I've found http://www.hum.aau.dk/~bovbjerg/piano4.html
http://www.gsonic.com/maestro/ http://www.soundcreationsinc.com/splendid/index.html (this one I had to set to program change 1 (bright pian)it didn't work on program change 0 ( grand piano) took me a while to work out what was wrong.
http://www.wstco.com/pianosounds/downloads/?trans-id=700100639838 (not free, requires a donation of $5, not quite as good as a couple of the others)
Some of these piano's are huge.
best wishes
Rikki
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-12-2004 07:16 PM
Rikki, some very good piano soundfont sources and here are some more sites people may find useful:
http://www.hammersound.net/ http://sf2.chez.tiscali.fr/soundfonts.htm http://kontakt.daw-mac.com/ http://www.melodymachine.com/ http://www.ntonyx.com/sf.htm http://www.papelmedia.de/sf2/sf2_uk_index.htm http://www.personalcopy.com/home.htm http://www.usbsounds.com/jsp/index.jsp http://www.sf2midi.com/ http://www.geocities.jp/shansoundfont/ http://www.soundburst.com/products.html http://www.soundzone.info/ http://www.gtownsounds.com/ http://www.titanicsf.com/download/download.html http://www.utopialive.com/ http://www.webpuppy.co.uk/worra/gigs/ http://www.worrasplace.com/ There are many more....
You can use translation software (e.g., CDXtract, etc.) to change from one format to another, e.g., giga to soundfont, etc.
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rikkisbears
Member posted 08-12-2004 07:50 PM
Thanks Frank,
I already have some of them, but there's definately a few new ones I haven't come across before.
I've got a demo of CD Extract, and also of Alive software. These are the next 2 items on my must have list.
Sold our house the other week and not actually moving up to the coast till possibly December, so at that stage I'll get my hands on the Dell Desktop ( home office computer) as hubby will be retiring. Then I can maybe upgrade it with extra memory and 2nd hard drive etc and get into some of the bigger stuff.
Meanwhile, I'm learning a bit more each day.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-13-2004 05:37 AM
There is nothing stopping Rikki.
Here is another alternative if you want people's jaws to drop. Upgrade your laptop with firewire or USB 2 and install a second hard drive and a professional soundcard. Then get yourself a dumb keyboard, a top of the line piano and effects. Invite some of your unknowing friends and play some REAL piano. Your friends jaws will drop to hear such amazing sound with something that looks - well that looks so electronic.
Just think Rikki, if you have alot and you spend a little you still have alot - you just can't lose.
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RichUK
Member posted 08-13-2004 06:00 AM
Many thanks for the great links Rikki and Frank!
Cheers,
Rich
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keybplayer
Member posted 08-13-2004 08:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
Then get yourself a dumb keyboard.
Careful Frank, your stepping on a lot of toes here at the SZ when you say that.
Those dumb keyboards are getting smarter all the time too Frank. And the funny thing is it actually takes some skill to play the dumb things. Not to say that your method doesn't take a reasonable amount of skill also. It's just different methods of achieving the same thing, i.e. MUSIC!!
Best regards,
Mike
[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 08-13-2004).]
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-13-2004 09:38 AM
keybplayer, you just managed to misinterpret me. When I use the expression dumb keyboard - I mean a midi controller keyboard with nothing in it - no sounds, effects etc., e.g., Roland A-37. Alternatively, intelligent keyboards have everything in them, e.g., arranger keyboards, workstations, etc.
I hope this helps. Wouldn't want to hurt anyones feelings. My guess is most understood what I meant.
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rikkisbears
Member posted 08-13-2004 04:24 PM
Hi Frank,
I'm pretty sure my laptop has firewire, but not so sure if I could install a second hard drive internally. I'm assuming you do mean internally??
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]There is nothing stopping Rikki.
Here is another alternative if you want people's jaws to drop. Upgrade your laptop with firewire or USB 2 and install a second hard drive and a professional soundcard.
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rikkisbears
Member posted 08-13-2004 04:37 PM
Hi Frank,
I'm pretty sure my laptop has firewire, but not so sure if I could install a second hard drive internally. I'm assuming you do mean internally??
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]There is nothing stopping Rikki.
Here is another alternative if you want people's jaws to drop. Upgrade your laptop with firewire or USB 2 and install a second hard drive and a professional soundcard.
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-13-2004 06:44 PM
Rikki, if you have firewire or USB 2.0 you can install an external hard drive as well as an external professional level soundcard. I agree you could not install second hard drive within a laptop. Generally, internal laptop hard drives run at 5400 rpm which would not be fast enough for streaming samples with Halion, Kontakt or others. Here's a person who uses a laptop in big time live performances:
http://www.daviddas.com/index2.html IP: Logged
rikkisbears
Member posted 08-14-2004 12:50 AM
Hi Frank,
goes to show how much I know about computers ( NOTHING, haahaa, silly me thought you were talking about internally). Didn't realize I could get such a thing as an external firewire hard drive, so I better make sure my laptop does have firewire installed. It was an optional extra, and I'm pretty sure I asked for it when I ordered my laptop, even though at the time,I didn't expect to ever have any use for it. Didn't even know what firewire did, except that Fran mentioned he had it on his laptop, so for a few dollars more, I thought what the heck. Sounds like I may have made a good desicion.
Thanks Frank
I'll do some checking on firewire, and maybe one day soon, an external hard drive may be on my list of must have's. I'll check back with you if you don't mind before I buy, on the minimum requirements, so that I order a drive that will do the job.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]Rikki, if you have firewire or USB 2.0 you can install an external hard drive as well as an external professional level soundcard.
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Tomcat
Member posted 08-14-2004 06:47 AM
Hi Rikki,
It's not a big deal if you don't have a "native" fire wire (1394) port on your laptop because you can always do what I did and put a pcmcia cardbus 3 port, ie, 3 connector, firewire card in the pcmcia slot on the side of your laptop. I have a Sony Vaio and it has a firewire port BUT it is only a four pin type for cameras, etc. and won't run (at least not my external boxed Seagate Barracuda) external hard drives; they need a six pin connector. I'm also using a USB Tascam US 122 external sound card and with those two (the HD and sound card) I have VERY low latency. Running the 1 gig piano from GigaStudio it's low enough that by the time the keyboard key (right now I'm using my Tyros as the controller) hits bottom the sound is there, so whatever the latency is (I don't know what it is) it's certainly low enough to be unnoticeable. AND it's that way in GigaStudio, Vsampler and Coyote Forte.
What I'm waiting/hoping for now is a pcmcia cardbus card with some Firewire 2 ports on it and then I'll get a Seagate 10,000 or 15,0000 rpm HD (up from my present 7200 rpm one), put it in my external HD case and really be set up to RUN.
Tom
PS BUT I'm NOT getting rid of my hardware! Yet, LOL.
------------------
Bigger is not always better
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-14-2004 08:32 AM
Tom, usually you can set the latency with the software that came with your soundcard or inside your host software, e.g., GigaStudio, forte Ensemble, etc. One would need to ensure that these two places for setting latency are set to the same value. Ideally, you run the latency to something less then 10ms or 441 samples per channel. I run my system at 2.9ms on a Steinberg VSL2020 soundcard.
Good to see that you are into some heavy duty software (samplers & virtual instruments).
[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-14-2004).]
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Fran Carango
Member posted 08-14-2004 12:50 PM
I just want everyone to know I am up and running..I am Using my Hyper Canvass with VanBasco..this was my first priority..My next adventure is to use one of the very nice Piano soundfonts,playing from my controller[D-70, as a "dumb" keyboard]..Thanks to Frank and Rikki for their advice and help....
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Fran Carango
Member posted 08-14-2004 12:53 PM
Forgot to mention, I use an External 7200 hard drive @ USB2..I am also using My Digigram VX pocket[pcmcia] sound card and Digigram asio driver[this is how I solved my conflict with the internal sound card]..
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Dnj
Member posted 08-14-2004 01:27 PM
Fran......congrats with your new setup, sounds like fun.....
We'll have to celebrate at Tony Luke's with a Big Roast Pork & Garlic Brocoli Rabe Sandwich....& a Strawberry Ice Cream Soda!!!
Oh Yeah
www.tonylukes.com IP: Logged
Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-14-2004 01:37 PM
Who would have thought that Fran would entertain the software based solution. He could gently turn into a minimalist!!! This could even cause some stress between Fran's Friends.
Just think of it, a new system - Fran2004 has come to life. I can some day see Fran entertaining his happy customers with a dumb keyboard, a 2.5GB virtual piano and top of the line effects playing cool jazz. It all looks so simple, it all looks so plastic, it all looks so electronic and it all sound so gooooood!!!
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rikkisbears
Member posted 08-14-2004 05:57 PM
Hi Fran,
great to see you up and running. Just out of interest, did you need midi yoke to work with Vanbasco & Hyper Canvas?
How are you finding the Hyper Canvas soundwise compared to the g1000.
Some of the big piano soundfonts sound great.
Actually I'd never heard of VanBasco before you mentioned it, so thank you, it's a great little program. I've never really had Kareoke software before, but I have a heap of roland and tune1000 midifiles that have lyrics , so be interesting to see if I can get them to work.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fran Carango:
[B]I
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rikkisbears
Member posted 08-14-2004 06:07 PM
Thank you Tom & Fran ,
handy to know I may have other options.
I also have usb in my laptop, but not sure whether it's USB 2? My Dell Inspirion 5150 laptop's only a couple of months old, so not sure if that makes any difference to type of usb?
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tomcat:
[B]Hi Rikki,
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Quasar
Junior Member posted 08-14-2004 06:07 PM
Rikki and Frank,
Your links and comments have been fascinating and enlightening to say the least. Thanks so much again.
I understand that you can't teach me the nuances as to how all this stuff works. I have to do my own homework. But I do have a short bottom-line type Q:
Compared to spending 1500-3500$ on a high-end synth, can I at least get started on a software-based strategy for less money, and be playing sounds that blow PSR/TYROS out of the water?
I don't care about soft vs. hard interfaces or so-called learning curves, etc. I just want to compose music- using the medium of the black and white keys- and home record to CDs, and it's really ALL about the sound.
Peace,
Mike (Quasar)
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-14-2004 07:48 PM
Quasar, I have not done a study on whether you can improve on a Tyros for less money. Can you do much, much, much, much better and than some then the Tyros? Without doubt.
The proof is in the pudding. The big guys (composer & screen writers) generally use the real thing or software based systems similar to ones I have been advocating. In fact the big budget guys will often do a mock - up using software based systems and then hire a real orchestra for the real run. In general, the big guys don't use arranger keyboards or workstations (Motif, Fantom, Tyros, etc.) - except as a controller.
Do you have to start at the top of the food chain - No. You can start modestly (cost & knowledge) and grow to meet your requirements in the future. To some extent you have to look at your incremental costs. If you already have a robust computer and soundcard then you only need to invest in samplers, synths and virtual instruments. Even this can be expensive, e.g., VSL Orchestral Cube (Woodwinds, Strings, Brass, Woodwinds & Precussion) at 45GB and $2290.00. http://vsl.co.at/english/pages/products_%26_shop/first_edition/orchestral_cube.htm
On the other hand you can get some very good soundfonts for free on the internet. You see it becomes more one of your choice. Everyone's system will be different.
[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-15-2004).]
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Quasar
Junior Member posted 08-14-2004 10:10 PM
Hey Frank,
Yeah, the fact that I can apparently do this incrementally is one of the things that makes your approach so appealing.
I've been looking at the Vienna, the EastWest, etc., and they're way out of my league, but there's all this free or inexpensive sampling out there, too.
Then there's questions of compatibility. Everyone, of course, wants to protect their propietary formats. I glanced at the CDxtract, and it'd be worth the $139 if it really works. If it does, I could be a cyberspace hobo (Buddy can you spare a sound?) and bring NY Philharmonic home with me on the cheap...
My new Omni Studio (which I really like btw) came with lite versions of Reason and Ableton Live. The sample presets with the Reason are not worth writing home (or to Frank L. Rosenthal) about, am just beginning to explore what can be done with these.
And my trigger finger is twitching nervously. The mouse is fully loaded, ready to point and shoot at either the Kontakt Native Pkg or the GPO. Something about the Vivaldi demo (Spring, from the 4S) really impressed me. While at times it sounded a bit too cold- artificially neat and clean, it was certainly better than orchestral demos I've heard on the Motif ES et al.
Besides, my less than polished playing ability will keep my music from being overly sanitized. (I use editing features such as quantize extremely sparingly.) My ma once gave me a CD collection of Caruso, the voice digitally remastered and accompanied by a modern orchestra, and you know what? I like the original cuts much better, with their Alan Lomax-esque, field-recording spontaneity about them.
But first things first. At this point in time, I've never even used a plug-in, or loaded a sonic sample onto a sequencer and played it on a controller. I downloaded a pedal steel sample, and got an .exe file that tells me that it's been successfully extracted, but thus far haven't figured out how or where to apply it.
So I've got to get busy and learn how to navigate the terrain. Figure out what works with what, and what does not. But I've become more and more convinced that this is the way to go.
Your posts and links have rocked my little world.
Quasar
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rikkisbears
Member posted 08-15-2004 12:47 AM
Hi Mike,
Frank got me started on the cheap with Synergi SoundFonts ( full set of GS Sounds)
http://www.samplebanks.com/aboutpads.shtml On the desktop I have an SB Live Card into which I was able to load the fonts directly.
On the laptop ( which I use for music) , I wasn't so fortunate, I needed software to load the fonts into, I'm using ( Live Synth Pro (sample player).
This is another one that AJ pointed me to.
It appears to be some sort of a sequencer that can use soundfonts etc
http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/1030.html There's a lot of stuff on the above site.
If you're planning on doing your own sequencing there's a demo of pg's Power Tracks Pro 9 available.
http://www.pgmusic.com/demo.htm it can use DXI plugins ( like Live Synth Pro).
I haven't worked out how to use the Synergi Fonts in my SB Live Card directly with Power Tracks Pro sequencer, (as I don't use the desktop for music, I haven't bothered to work it out), but there must be a way.
If you're actually planning to use a software arranger like "OMB" 1 man band ( it plays psr styles in realtime, plus you can create arrangements with it using psr styles ) then you need some extra bits of software on top of the above.
The above is an "On The Cheap" setup. I've slowly been adding things to improve my system. The above just whetted my appetite.
Some earlier topics of discussion
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/009447.html http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/009638.html Don't be put off, it was a lot of trial and error for me as I don't know a great deal about computers. I eventually got there thanks to Frank & AJ.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quasar:
[B]Rikki and Frank,
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-15-2004 06:25 AM
Quasar, like with any tranlation software, CDXtract does not do a 100% job on all files. In general, it does a good job and with some tweaking you can get there. Also keep in mind that the top of the line samplers (Kontakt, etc.) have builtin translation features. So between the two alternatives you can usually get where you want.
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-15-2004 06:27 AM
Rikki, reading your last post I almost feel I could sell used cars - oh, oh!!! I hope it works out for me.
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Quasar
Junior Member posted 08-15-2004 02:08 PM
Hi Rikki,
I downloaded the freeware seq from the link you got from AJ, and was able to play a rather sweet sf2 flute on a controller, and I'm starting a little sondfont library. (The freeware program itself seems hopeless, but it's probably just me.) Plus, I just learned I have 2 controllers. My psr540 with the local off has the cheap but light plastic-like touch response, and my Yamaha P120 can also be set to local off, so I can have a decent weighted hammer action controller, too. I'll use whichever depending on the voice I'm trying to replicate.
I already have Power Tracks Pro 9, (got it last week after so many of the heavy hitters here lauded it.) but it doesn't seem to support sf2s. If I'm not careful I'm going to have a hundred different cheap or free seqs that I never learn how to properly use! I did look at the synergi, listened a little, and will keep looking around. Proverbial baby steps, perhaps, but I'm on my way...
Just curious: Is there any reason other than portability you use the laptop, rather than the desk, for music?
Happy music making!
Mike (Quasar)
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-15-2004 02:23 PM
Quasar, I want to point out to you and Rikki that my primary reason for recommending sYnerGi GS was to ensure Yamaha drum compatibility especially for Yamaha styles. This would facilitate using OMB and Live - Styler for live performances. You can as I have noted previously update the sounds with new versions of piano, strings and so on.
This recommendations arose before OMB was able to translate the style and midi files to GM Standards. Now with this OMB feature you can use any GM wavetable including HyperCanvas. You're no longer tied to the Yamaha drums and sYnerGi GS Wavetable.
I still use my modified sYnerGi GS wavetable for live performances. It sounds very good along with my premium lead and melody instruments.
But as always it is up to you. I just want to make sure I don't sell you something you don't need including a used car.
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Quasar
Junior Member posted 08-15-2004 03:01 PM
Hey Frank,
Sorry to keep picking your brain. I'm sure you have better things to do than entertain my neophyte questions, but I've decided to take the plunge. I'm going to get the GPO and the Kontakt sampler.
Problem is I can only afford one today, and can get the other next month.
1) GPO has the orchestral sounds I want, but comes bundled with lite versions of seq/samplers, and experience tells me that such are calculated to frustrate you until you buy their flagship product. Is the GPO package as stand-alone as it claims to be? Can I really use it productively right out of the box?
2) The Kontakt will give me a true stand-alone sampler that I can begin to learn fluently and build around, but it seems that their preset library focuses more on the pop/rock sort of sounds that I'm not nearly so interested in working with, at least not at the moment.
Which one first? Whaddya think.
Thanks,
Mike (Quasar)
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Quasar
Junior Member posted 08-15-2004 03:07 PM
PS: Frank, since Richard Nixon is no longer with us, I'll just have to buy that used car from you, when the time comes.
Mike
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rikkisbears
Member posted 08-15-2004 04:13 PM
Hi Mike,
main reason I started with soundfonts was to slowly build my knowledge up. I didn't have a clue as to what I was doing when it came to computers as a sound source. ( or computers in general, when it came to specifications ie amount of memory, hard drives etc
I've used various computer sequencers over the years ( power tracks, xg works, cubase etc ) but always with external sound modules, synthesizers or arranger keyboards.
I actually had 3 arranger keyboards and a arranger piano before I started on this new venture. My 9000pro went, my VA7 went, my Technic arranger piano went ( it's been replaced by a CLP170 non arranger piano) now I'm just down to my KN7000, Clp 170 piano,
OMB & Jammer Live realtime arranger software and other assorted sequencers etc and a budding library of soundfonts, soft synths etc.
Decided not to rush into it , till I understood it a bit better, then I could make informed choices of what I needed/wanted.
Reason for laptop is portability. Also the desktop is used for our office work at home. When hubby retires at the end of the year, I can do what I like with it. I also use the desktop for the internet, and I do worry a bit that if it got a virus or something, I'd be in a bit of a mess. The laptop is used only for music. I download everything off the net via the desktop, check it with anti virus software , and only then load it into the laptop. Probably being a bit paranoid. The office files only number a few, so easily backed up and restored in case something goes wrong. The music files are huge, wouldn't want to have to start from scratch.
best wishes
Rikki
quote:
Originally posted by Quasar:
Hi Rikki,
I already have Power Tracks Pro 9, (got it last week after so many of the heavy hitters here lauded it.)
Just curious: Is there any reason other than portability you use the laptop, rather than the desk, for music?
Happy music making!
Mike (Quasar)
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rikkisbears
Member posted 08-15-2004 04:15 PM
Frank,
car salesman of the year haahaa
quote:
Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
Rikki, reading your last post I almost feel I could sell used cars - oh, oh!!! I hope it works out for me.
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-15-2004 05:14 PM
Quasar, GPO comes with Kompakt the small brother of Kontakt. If you are going to mainly play samples then Kompakt is adequate. If you want to do a great deal of detailed editing then Kontakt is worth the investment. I agree with you that GPO gives you better acoustic virtual instruments. I guess if it were my dollar and if I were just starting out I would get the GPO and see whether that is all you need. If it turns out you need more editing capability I would then acquire Kontakt.
The other thing you should know is that sound developers bundle the sounds with the sampler as a form of copy protection. I happen not to like that. So check this out with the developers to see whether you will beable to do all the things you planned with these virtual instruments. For example, you may not beable to use the GPO instruments with Halion but might beable to use them with Kontakt. I use Kontakt and have purchase standalone virtual acoustic instruments, Garritan Strings, Bardstown Bosendorfer Piano, Whole Lotta Country, Scarbee Bass & Rhodes, VRSound Sax & 3D Pipe Organ, Dan Dean Woodwinds, Quantum Leap Brass, etc. So take alook at this approach as well.
Another sampler that is worth looking at is Halion. I am not very knowledgeable about it but I understand it can load a GM wavetable. Similarily GigaStudio can and I hear the new 3.0 will do so as well.
As part of your purchasing decision you should know that most top of the line samplers do not respond to program change numbers (except Halion & GigaStudio) and would not be very good for playing midi or style files. To play style files you would need to save the required voices on the appropriate channels as a project or something like that and load those voices when you want to play a specific midi or style file. That is why for my accompaniment or general midi file playing I use sYnerGi GS and Kontakt for my lead and melody voices (premium quality). There are, of course, many GM Soundfont wavetables (free) and others such as Edirol's HyperCanvas. The advantage of soundfont wavetables is that you can find all the necessary software to edit the individual voices within the wavetable or replace such voices with new or different versions of the same thing, e.g., a higher quality piano.
So from my perspective I may acquire Halion and test it. If it works then the advantage is I can use one sampler for everything and use CDXtract to convert wavetables to the Halion format. After that you could use Halion to edit individual sounds and/or replace them. Hmmmm....why haven't I done that????
[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-15-2004).]
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-15-2004 05:40 PM
I will consider myself a successful used car salesman when I finally hear Rikki say she can do everything with exceptional quality with only:
One computer
One Sound System
One dumb keyboard
High Quality Virtual Instruments & Sampler(s) Or SoftSynths
High Quality Effects
Software Pitch Correction & Vocal Harmonizer
Style & Midi File Players & Editors
This would truly look to the unknowing as a minimalist system with an unnoticeable change in Rikki's wealth.
[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-15-2004).]
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Quasar
Junior Member posted 08-16-2004 10:44 AM
One computer
One Sound System
One dumb keyboard
High Quality Virtual Instruments & Sampler(s) Or SoftSynths
High Quality Effects
Software Pitch Correction & Vocal Harmonizer
Style & Midi File Players & Editors
---------------------------------------------
Frank, I like it! Except I'm glad to have 2 boards, both the weighted hammer action, and the light nonweighted touch response...
But I'm at heart a minimalist, too, always looking for how I can lose, rather than acquire things. Thoreau once pointed out the obvious: If you can learn to live well on half of the money you make, you've for all intents and purposes doubled your salary...
Took your advice and purchased the GPO. It should be here in about 3 business days. Patience has never been my strong-suit, so I'll have a chance to practice. I can't wait!
Mike (Quasar)
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Frank L. Rosenthal
Member posted 08-16-2004 01:57 PM
Quasar, you are now on a new journey from which you will never look back. The Quasar2004 Total Music System is on the verge of happening!!!!
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