Hi!

I am currently planning a home studio and need to know how to setup my gear in the best way. I will connect 4 keyboards(Yamaha Tyros, Korg Trinity, Roland A-90Ex, Korg IX-300), 1 guitar and 1 microphone as a start. I have a PC equipped with an RME Fireface 800 audio interface (8 * 8 ins/outs) and I have 2 active Mackie HR 824 studio monitors. I will choose a mixer that best suits this kind of environment.

I wonder how to connect all this equipment in the best way? The best way I can think of is the following:

-My instruments are connected directly to the mixer's analog inputs.
-My studio monitors are connected to the mixer's main outputs.
-8 channels on the mixer works as recording channels, each of these channel's direct output goes to the audio interface's inputs.
-I use 2 (6 for surround) outputs on the audio interface connected to 2 (or 6) additional inputs on the mixer.

I will also use an 8 port MIDI interface, but I guess this automatically works just fine in this kind of setup?!

But using direct outputs makes me switch manually if I use 8 certain recording channels? I read that with ATL 3-4 I can choose which channels to output, by pressing an ATL button on that channel so I can get any of the channel's inputs to work as recording channels. But that requires 8 outputs on the ATL bus right? Doi mixer's have that? I cannot use only 2 outputs...

If this is the best way of connecting my setup I guess I need something like the Mackie Onyx 1640 16-Channel Mixer to get the direct outputs. But what about all these buses, control rooms etc that some mixer's have instead of direct outputs?

I also have a SPDIF in and out on the sound card + spdif in the Trinity and Tyros. How can I take advantage of these?

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-05-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-05-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-05-2005).]

Take a look at these strange direct output connectors on the Onyx. How can I convert them to normal output connectors that fits the audio interface? And how can I take advantage of the optional firewire feature?



[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-05-2005).]

I suspect you have to buy more hardware from Mackie.

I've got a home recording setup similar to yours, but have never had the need for separate mixer outputs for every channel. I'm not sure I understand what good it would do!

I have a Tascam TM-D1000 mixer with 16 analogue channels. I have my two keyboards, mic preamp, and effects processor plugged straight into my Delta 1010 soundcard's inputs/outputs. I use a spare pair of outputs to go to my mixer for monitoring.

Yes, so in effect my Tascam mixer is just a glorified volume knob. I've found it's just a heck of a lot easier doing all of my mixing within Cubase, for mix recall/automation, etc. than doing it manually with the analogue faders. I love being able to 'patch in' my external effects processor from within Cubase too.

I guess ideally, a killer digital mixer with motorised faders and multichannel interface would be the best route... if money really did grow on trees.

Carrie

Check out the new Alesis Firewire mixers, you have an analog mixer that at the same time is a sound card for your PC, no drivers need to be install, a true "plug & play".....depending on the model, but I think their prices are from $399.00 to $599.00.....great for live performance, as well for your studio.

YamahaAndy, I purchased a Yamaha 01X two weeks ago.
After a difficult installation with mLan (firewire) my setup is now complete.
The 01X is a digital studio mixer with motorized faders,DSP (2 effect processors),controller for Cubase (or other software sequencer).
I had to build a brand new pc to get it work without problems.
No soundcard, no heavy VGA, just lots of ram, fast cpu, a fast HD and a compatible firewire PCI card.
The 01X will do all the rest.
Although I don't know all the possibilities yet, I'm very excited about the studio mixer.
Just take a look at the 01X website and maybe it is what you are looking for.
www.01xray.com

Jan

Ow forgot to mention, the 01X has a special electric guitar input.

I'm in the process of setting up an almost identical setup to what you mention. I was thinking of setting it up in the exact configuration you mention. I was planning to use the inserts on my mixer as direct outs from which to go to the interface, and then send the a stereo mix of the interface back to the mixer. But this is assuming that the insert "trick" will work. Let us know how it goes.

The problem with my mixer though, is that the stereo channels don't have inserts or direct outs...

Chony

Chony, interesting that you are about to connect the same gear!

The ALT 3-4 bus way of connecting the mixer is not worth it, since the channels can be transmitted through only 1 stereo out (L and R), which means that only two channels can be recorded on separate tracks at once, something very limiting.

The only options except the ALT 3-4 I have seen is direct outs and inserts. Inserts can be used as direct outs if you plug in the cable halfway, something I think sounds a little risky/low quality approach. So the direct outs seem to be the solution to this. I have to find a good mixer with direct outputs on each channel. The onyx is an alternative, I just have to find out how those connectors can be converted to normal connectors on the audio interface. Since it is only 1 cable per 8 channels I can save some bucks, space and quality by using a converter instead of a lot of cables.

By having one output per channel on the mixer it means you are able to record any number of available inputs on the audio interface at the same time to separate audio tracks in the computer instead of having to record for instance 2 channels at a time and then have to record 4 times to get 8 channels recorded which makes you produce less result on a given time frame.

There are many reasons why a mixer is the way to go when using an audio interface:

- You can monitor both the signal you are recording and the playback signal in an easy way.

- You can adjust the level of your monitors from the mixer.

- You can monitor your external MIDI synths and modules without recording them to audio and when you want to record them to audio it's just a button press away.

- Manual mixer interface is easy

By being able to control the mix manually, the editing process is smoother and easier both when it comes to recording and playback.
By being able to add equalizing effects on tracks during recording in an easy way, you have more mixing power and the computer has less to process.

- The way of working is centralized to the mixer rather than to the audio interface

In a greater context this means you are able to control the environment in a more flexible and practical way.

- Separation between the external world and the recording world

This is good when you want several musicians live in the mix but only want to record maybe just a few instruments.

- One interface to several recording interfaces

If you run several computers in the recording/playback process simoultaneously it's much easier to manage the instruments against a mixer instead of x number of audio interfaces. The mixer then separates the signals to different audio interfaces.

- Better way of using subwoofers in the mix

By using dedicated outputs for subwoofers you are getting a better way of using subwoofers in the mix.

- Internal and external effect monitoring per channel in realtime

By being able to manually control the the effects per channel you are equipped with more powerful mixing features.

- External effect units can be shared by a combination of instruments simoultaneously via the AUX and the level can be edited in real-time per channel.

This is good when using compressors, reverbs and other external effect units in the chain.

Best regards,
YamahaAndy

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-06-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-06-2005).]

Well, I finally found the solution to this. The ALT 3-4 bus is the answer, but its name is somewhat confusing when thinking of the definition. A better word is sub outs, but sub groups is also used.

When I use the RME Fireface 800 and want to be able to record 8 channels simoultaneously to 8 separate tracks in the computer and use a mixer in the chain, that mixer needs to be 8 Bus (have 8 subgroups). This allows me to route 8 channels out to 8 inputs on the audio interface. Then I can connect the active monitors to the main outs on the mixer. The 8 Bus technology is better than direct outputs in that any of the mixer's channels can act as recording channels by using an ATL or mute button so I don't have to replug the instruments in order to choose what instruments to record. This is a much better approach than using inserts halfway for this purpose.

The Behringer MX9000 Eurodesk Mixer seems to be a good bang for the bucks when it comes to 8 Bus mixers, but I'm still not sure about its sound quality, it might be a little noisy. I have to check that out.

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-06-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-06-2005).]

I read about the Behringer MX9000 and found out that it uses the 8 subgroups in pairs:

Each input channel has:

Button1: Subgroup 1-2
Button2: Subgroup 3-4
Button3: Subgroup 5-6
Button4: Subgroup 7-8

While this works great with stereo instruments and an audio interface it becomes a little limiting if you connect mono instruments also. Take a look at this scenario:

I need to record:
3 synths (L + R)
2 mics

Channel1:
Synth1 L Button1 pressed

Channel2:
Synth1 R Button1 pressed

Channel3:
Synth2 L Button2 pressed

Channel4:
Synth2 R Button2 pressed

Channel5:
Synth3 L Button3 pressed

Channel6:
Synth3 R Button3 pressed

Channel7:
Mic1 Button4 pressed

Channel8:
Mic2 Button4 pressed

As you can see the button4 (subgroup 7 and 8) is routing to both mic 1 and mic2. Then they end up on the same tracks in the sequencer which is not what I want! Luckily the Behringer MX9000 has direct outs that can be used on the two mic mono channels. There might also be a way of routing one channel to only one subgroup, but in the manual I didn't find any such instructions, just 4 buttons with subgroup pairs enabled/disabled.