Here is another GM Software Module: http://www.luxonix.com/home/en/products.html?id=purity

The following are some higher quality GM softare modules:


NI Bandstand
EW's Colossus
Steinberg's HyperSonic 2
M-Audio's Key Rig
Luxonix's Purity
Roland/Edirol's HyperCanvas, etc.
Many Soundfont GM/GS/XG Libraries
And others

From what I see on the internet during various forum discussions on this subject the conclusions seem to be that:

Colossus is the best sounding but not so good with responding to program change midi commands.

Bandstand is a good balance between sound and responding to program change midi commands.

The rest respond best to program changes but suffer a little in quality.

There are many Libraries and Single Virtual Accoustic Instruments which sound much better than any of the above but cost more. I would consider the above suitable only for auto accompaniment but not for lead or melody voices (Book Store Jazz/Coffee Shop or High Class Night Clubs & Studio). The above could be used for quick records or other general live performances, i.e., auto accompaniment and lead voices where quality is balanced with quick response, ease of use and total costs.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 12-21-2005).]

Thank you for that valuable info, I appreciate it. !!

Frank,
do you have EW's Colossus?
The demos on their webside sound really impressive. With 32 GB of samples they should be greatIMO..

Roy-Andrè

Roy-Andrè, yes I do have EW's Colossus and yes there are very many very good sounds in it. I don't know the exact numbers but the GM part of Colossus consists of about 13 GBs and the rest are other instruments, including some very good brass, pianos and so on. Again there are better sounding virtual acoustic instruments out there if you are willing to pay the price.

Frank, I have i.e. the BFD drums, but using them can very often not replace a whole midi drum track because BFD don't match the midi mapping of the GM track. The track must be broken up into several tracks. I also bought the Dimension Pro from Cakewalk. It is also very good, but nowhere near as many GB as Colossus. What soundbanks would you recommend if you'd go for individual instruments or combined. I'm after the best sounds there are!
Roy-Andrè

Roy-Andrè, you are asking me a tough question.....I am sitting on the fence a little but I will give it a try:

I am switching over to NI's Bandstand for my auto accompaniment.

I will downsize on my less favorite acoustic instruments or acoustic instruments I do not use often for my lead or melody parts. Here I will use Colossus, Garritan's Personal Ochestra, Garritan's Jazz & Big Band and others.

For my favorite lead or melody instruments I will continue to use top of the line instruments, e.g., NI's Steinway D, EW's Steinway B and Bardstown's Bosendorfer 290, Scarbee Bass & Rhodes 73 Pianos, Garritan Strings, VRSound 3D Pipe Organs, NI B4, EW&VSL Brass, Trumpets, Mutes, Flutes, etc., and others. There is one area I am still searching for that perfect saxophone (tenor, alto and soprano), saxophones with character (spit, smoke, growls). These are hard to find. I have layered some and used velocity switching to get some character going. Another area I am still looking is good guitars. Currently I use the acoustic guitars which came with kontakt.

For synthesizer & electric guitars sounds, I will take the lower quality....don't use it much.

For my vocal harmonizer, I use Antares or Akai DecaBuddy (discontinued).

You can get very good sound and save a great deal of money by just using NI Bandstand, Colossus and Garritan's Jazz & Big Band (about $1200 to $1400 US). Like you, I have Dimension Pro from Cakewalk (Project5 and Sonar 5). I have yet to test it...it could be very good as well.

Concerning your BFD drums, you could remap your GM Drum tracks to fit with this drum kit. If BFD is very good it may be worth it. Apparently other very good drum kits are the Drums From Hell: http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=PSP-06 http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=TT105


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 12-21-2005).]

Frank, thankyou so much for taking all this time to answer my question, I really appreciate it. I have copy and pasted your answer to save it for reference as a way ahead. Dimension Pro by the way has Garrison Pocket Orchestra embedded as you know, and sounds very good indeed, but the Dimension sounds are also very good.
I guess there is a tendency to see number of GB as a quality of the sounds, but this is'nt allways true I guess.
Regards
Roy-Andrè

I can imagine it's great having a good GM set for those wanting to play midi files, but from what I've heard over the years, midi files generally sound pretty cheap and nasty and are mostly programmed with incorrect notes etc. It's no good having Gigabytes of GM sounds if the midi file you want to play has been programmed badly. No matter how good a sound set you have, badly programmed midi files will still sound dreadful.
I don't want to get into a GM debate on here, but can you peeps tell me what you use your GM sets for and why you would want huge Gigabytes of data for them?
The songs I program for other people I do in sequencing packages so obviously they are midi notes at the end of the day that have been recorded, I do not however use any GM sound sets for my voices.
It's nice how everyone differs when playing and recording with technology so do people wanting good GM sets on here only use them for playback of midi files?

Roy-Andrè, you are right that the number of GBs alone do not determine the quality of the virtual instrument. However, all other things being equal it does. There are a number of variables which determine the size of the instrument, release samples, no looping, number of velocity layers, incorporating different characteristics via keyswitching (breath, key cliks, growls, bends, etc.) and so on. In other words one might refer to these as super SAVs. In the sampling world these instruments have been around for a number of years.

....but you are right that you can make very beautiful noises with relatively small byte size instruments. These are all great choices for musicians.

Craig_UK, the use of GM Wavetables is useful for live performances where the performer makes use of midi files and/or styles (one man band). There is a need to quickly respond to program change midi commands, e.g., when changing from fills to main variations, etc. Plus in this situation one may be willing to accept a small reduction in quality to achieve this objective.

Another use of GM Wavetables is for a quick run through of your musical ideas before you go for heavy duty recording or hiring a band or orchestra for you project. It provides an alternative to hardware based solutions. If you want to spend the money then you can usually do much better as compared with hardware alternatives (with the exception of course of a not so good control surface).

So when you say huge GM Wavetable that is a relative term. All other things being equal such wavetables will give you the best reproduction of the real thing. It is up to the muscian to ensure that the styles or midi files are of good quality. Here again one may make a difference or compromise between what one uses for live performances vs studio work. The thing is to do the best you can in all categories of music making.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 12-22-2005).]

Frank,
I re-read my reply, and it looks like I'm second guessing you on the GB part. For the record, I'm not!!!!
I have learnt a lot from your posts here!
As you may know, I use the OnStage Performer for my file playing, that being wav-files. In turn, this means I can edit any type of midifile to make it the best, and it is in this aspect that I'm always searching for the best sounds around. I then render these to wav. Frank, you have been a great resource for me and others here!
Craig-UK
I use plug-ins all the time these days, and my experience is that better sounds make good midifiles sound great. I buy most of my files on the net, and these are for the most part very well programmed. But if I can enhance these with better sounds than you can find in arrangers or GM modules, then, great!
I also depended on lyrics, but with OP I don't care anylonger whether the files have lyrics, since it is so easy to do these in OnStage Performer.

Here is a use of some of the smaller virtual instruments (Garritan's Personal Orchestra) in a live U2 concert: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40882
I thought you might find this interesting.

Thanks Frank, very interesting indeed. There are so many temptations where sound and plug ins are concerned. I watched the demo of NI Bandstand, and it looks very interesting. How much better does the Colossus sound would you say? 32GB compared to 2,3GB. I understand NI BS handles program changes and midi subtleties better, but if you should put your finger on something specific, is there anything that springs to mind?
And how do Bandstand compare to HyperSonic 1 which I do have?
Thanks again!
Roy-Andrè

[This message has been edited by royandreno (edited 12-22-2005).]

Roy-Andrè, when it comes to quality of sound of the ones you have identified I would say it clearly is Colossus. It is not so good with program changes and this includes when it is used with kontakt as the sample player. Bandstand is a better balance between quality and reponding to midi messages. Again I would recommend Bandstand over Hypersonic 1 or 2 if for no other reason that while the sounds are of similar quality it nonetheless fits in better with my overall direction of chosing NI for my samplers and effects plus some of the instruments (B4, sampled instruments, etc.). All these things work well together.

However, you might say I am hostage to NI should something happen to them (business failure or acquired by others).

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 12-22-2005).]