Lots of guitars for Mr. D and Pennywizz ( spelling ? ) as you guys seemed to dig " Shotgun "

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=4453&alid=-1


Anyhow...after this track ill stick to more keyboard driven offerings, as this is a keyboard message board hahahah fair guess thats what many members want to hear.

Sidenote...gonna close old " song posted " topics when I make a new one. I do things silly but dont want to flood the boards.

It's an arranger keyboard forum... let's hear your arranger keyboard work.

Lets hear you play some more instruments ( like I do ) before you make demands, lets also have you read and understand what I already stated, then get clued in that the majority of stuff ive offered has been keyboard driven.

Dont act whatever cause I can manually play full arrangements.

Cause guess what IM not the least bit surprised with you...ive put up with this brand of stupidity before. If I was some guy posting up haphazard cover tunes ( fully midi even ) you would have no issue...given I post up keyboard, drum, bass, guitar, so on work you have a problem. HUMMMM wonder why.

Care to fill everyone in what your problem with a musician is, or do you think you have really kept it hidden so well you can spew off drivel cause your opinionated or something :P

It's an arranger keyboard forum, that's all. Don't wet yourself.

Lets hear you play some more instruments ( like I do ) before you make demands, lets also have you read and understand what I already stated, then get clued in that the majority of stuff ive offered has been keyboard driven.

Dont act whatever cause I can manually play full arrangements.

Cause guess what IM not the least bit surprised with you...ive put up with this brand of stupidity before. If I was some guy posting up haphazard cover tunes ( fully midi even ) you would have no issue...given I post up keyboard, drum, bass, guitar, so on work you have a problem. HUMMMM wonder why.

Care to fill everyone in what your problem with a musician is, or do you think you have really kept it hidden so well you can spew off drivel cause your opinionated or something :P

Lets hear you play some more instruments ( like I do ) before you make demands, lets also have you read and understand what I already stated, then get clued in that the majority of stuff ive offered has been keyboard driven.

Dont act whatever cause I can manually play full arrangements.

Cause guess what IM not the least bit surprised with you...ive put up with this brand of stupidity before. If I was some guy posting up haphazard cover tunes ( fully midi even ) you would have no issue...given I post up keyboard, drum, bass, guitar, so on work you have a problem. HUMMMM wonder why.

Care to fill everyone in what your problem with a musician is, or do you think you have really kept it hidden so well you can spew off drivel cause your opinionated or something :P

Alone-

1) What arranger do you use?

2) How do you incorporate styles and or multiple instruments into your music?

3) Do you perform in any paying venues?

Bill in Dayton

"1) What arranger do you use?"

Only use them for portability reasons and sometimes to catch random ideas. Used to ( and know thats not what you asked ) use PSR550 just the direct to disc recording got old. Past that use a PSR293 ( a little guy I know ) what can I say. Outside of that not as literal minded of what makes an arranger as some around here.

"2) How do you incorporate styles and or multiple instruments into your music?"

Beyond play them dont really know what to say or needs to be said. But for the literal minds...its not exactly hard to split/layer multi voices across a keyboard. I mean when you have 4/8/16 zones on a board you can setup however you want you can kinda do whatever you want.

"3) Do you perform in any paying venues?"

I always hate this question, cause for the most part it comes from those that think " arts worthless unless the artist gets paid."

Beyond that yes I do.

These questions are just stupid...and a freaking insult, go ask some of the members here that spew out midi file covers what the hell they do who pays them and what gear they use.

Cause if someone checked my freaking DEMO work on the site and cant just respect me as a musician ( even if things are not their cup of tea )...I dont know what the mentality around this place is. One day ive got someone telling me ive got diverse musical tastes in relation to my DEMO tracks...then the next Ive got pointless questions that relate to nothing. I play tons of instruments then have people asking me if I can play/own an instrument thats built for nonmusicians ( on the extreme ) to be able to fake generic songs with.

Alone-

...Your responses are sounding more and more childish. I asked three basic, straight-forward questions to you trying to learn more about what/how you do what you do. What I get in response is basically a smart-ass, defensive rant.

...Look, I couldn't care less what you think about my motivations or what I do musically. This isn't a contest, musically, pissing or otherwise. For the better part of the last ten years, I've made my living doing nothing but music in a medium to small size midwestern town. I don't use midi files, I don't use a sequencer...I rely on my skills as a vocalist, pianist and a musician to create a musical output I find highly enjoyable and that others are willing to pay nice sums of money to hear me do it. If somehow that doesn't pass your particular muster, well, honestly-who cares?

The beauty of this board is the helpful, well intentioned sharing of ideas, suggestions and experiences.

You think you're more intense than most of us? Fine...most of us have grown past that stage...

You want to put down acompished musicians simply because they/we use available technology in a way you don't approve of? Have at it...those of us that do this for a living hear it on a regular basis...no biggie...

Art is important and cool...no question about it. You won't find a single person here who thinks otherwise. I've listened to all of those online song files from a previous link you provided. I haven't stated my thoughts on your work in any way. Now I will: I think its raw, self-indulgent and gets kinda boring after a while. But who cares what I think? Do what you like, as I and most others are...

Finally, you challenged "The Pro" to see if he could do what you do? Can you do what he does?

If you can't function in the exisiting friendly, good spirited environs we enoy here, then you might be happier looking elswhere for a cyber home that is more suited to your specific tastes and beliefs...

PS: Please, dear god, don't just reprint your previous response...

Bill in Dayton



[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 04-09-2005).]

"...Your responses are sounding more and more childish. I asked three basic, straight-forward questions to you trying to learn more about what/how you do what you do. What I get in response is basically a smart-ass, defensive rant. "

I answered all your questions so whats your problem? As for childish have you failed to notice what " The Pro " has been posting...does that deserve anything more then cut and paste. Plus your questions were anything but " get to know ya " questions at least in the context of what this thread has been. If you would have asked what voice what effect was used on such and such song it would have been easier for me to tell we were having a friendly conversation.

"...Look, I couldn't care less what you think about my motivations or what I do musically. This isn't a contest, musically, pissing or otherwise. For the better part of the last ten years, I've made my living doing nothing but music in a medium to small size midwestern town. I don't use midi files, I don't use a sequencer...I rely on my skills as a vocalist, pianist and a musician to create a musical output I find highly enjoyable and that others are willing to pay nice sums of money to hear me do it. If somehow that doesn't pass your particular muster, well, honestly-who cares? "

Man half of what seems to be rubbing you wrong wasn't even directed at you. I used some EXTREME examples of what SOME people might do around here that doesn't net them a world of grief.

"The beauty of this board is the helpful, well intentioned sharing of ideas, suggestions and experiences."

Well, many of the things I offer to the boards are EXACTLY that...like when I posted five pages of stuff to help "BrickBoo" get started recording.

"You think you're more intense than most of us? Fine...most of us have grown past that stage... "

Where did I ever say this? I know there are other guitar players floating around here, some drummers, heck even sax and horn players, and ive heard some great keyboard work from members. I do feel I offer something that other members dont...not for any reason of ego just simply cause IM an artist. Much like other members here are inclined to do their own thing and have their own ambitions and offer their own perspective on music.

"You want to put down acompished musicians simply because they/we use available technology in a way you don't approve of? Have at it...those of us that do this for a living hear it on a regular basis...no biggie..."

Where have I stated a name of any member? Heck more often then not I see people around here insulting rock bands or metal bands established accomplished ones. Ive seen people around here insult genres at large ( such as electronica ) simply for the tools used. Ive even seen members here insult an 11 girl that was playing " XYZ." Im not saying its YOU that have done these things...just that this is stuff I see go down on these boards ALL the time.

"Art is important and cool...no question about it. You won't find a single person here who thinks otherwise. I've listened to all of those online song files from a previous link you provided. I haven't stated my thoughts on your work in any way. Now I will: I think its raw, self-indulgent and gets kinda boring after a while. But who cares what I think? Do what you like, as I and most others are... "

No problem.

"Finally, you challenged "The Pro" to see if he could do what you do? Can you do what he does?"

Maybe because he posts random crap in every thread I make thats not the least bit insightful even within some context. If he wants to forthright attack my work ( as he has done )...he should at least be able to do some of it or admit the things that are beyond him. No I cant do everything he does note for note and we have very different setups but I could do some of what he does filtered through what I do. Replace the automated drums with live drums, replace key guitar tones with guitar, replace key bass lines with bass and so on. Only not to insult his work as there are only a handful of songs on his site that I could figure out the general arrangement and instruments by ear and honestly at max I would only do a 4 to 7 part arrangement on any select thing. See I can admit that...did you see " The Pro " admitting he couldn't play Spanish guitar when he doesn't even play guitar, or admitting he couldn't play Dominican style drum work complete with interdependence and rudiments when he doesn't even play drums.

"If you can't function in the exisiting friendly, good spirited environs we enoy here, then you might be happier looking elswhere for a cyber home that is more suited to your specific tastes and beliefs..."

Ive functioned just fine here...only sometimes I fail to see the friendly good spirited nature of the board when. I see people around here insulting rock bands or metal bands established accomplished ones. Ive seen people around here insult genres at large ( such as electronica ) simply for the tools used. Ive even seen members here insult an 11 girl that was playing " XYZ."

Alone and forsaken, what exactly do you want to get out of this forum ? Others have pointed out to you that it is an arranger forum. The musicians here use arrangers. We compose on them and perform using them and have an interest in them. What is your interestin this particular forum if you dont genuinely use arranger keyboards? As wide as you may view arranger discussion forums,this forum maybe peculiar in that we look at arrangers as in the keyboard type rather than simply "arranging music".Our creativity is channeled through these instruments hence our interest and participation in the forum

These are my observations as a junior member who owns and uses an arranger keyboard.

i am not trying to be a smart alec. Just trying to figure where we can find some kind of mutual interest here.

"Alone and forsaken, what exactly do you want to get out of this forum ? Others have pointed out to you that it is an arranger forum. The musicians here use arrangers. We compose on them and perform using them and have an interest in them. What is your interestin this particular forum if you dont genuinely use arranger keyboards?"

Completely honestly I get much out of this forum. Point blank there are a few members here that OWN music stores, members that go to the music tradeshows like clockwork. So in general right there is a wealth of information. Plus I enjoy watching members get new keyboards or gear...then perhaps getting a review of it or better yet the collective view on it.

Past that I cant say I have any friends on the boards but there are members I just enjoy reading their posts...be it a new gig they got, if their debating buying a restraunt, all kinds of stuff. From time to time I might toss in a word " yay " or "dont do it."

Only I do tend to get in conflicts more then most members on the board with well...a lot of members on the board so it seems. Perhaps because I respond to stuff I shouldn't in the first place...and haven't learned the art of only going "Gurrr Mad " and leaving it at that.


"As wide as you may view arranger discussion forums,this forum maybe peculiar in that we look at arrangers as in the keyboard type rather than simply "arranging music".Our creativity is channeled through these instruments hence our interest and participation in the forum "

Yeah your right I do find it odd in a way. Yet your last sentence gives me a bit more perspective.


"These are my observations as a junior member who owns and uses an arranger keyboard. "

no worries...

"i am not trying to be a smart alec. Just trying to figure where we can find some kind of mutual interest here."

I think we already have some mutual interest here. HAHAHA just given our mutual interest in part leads us to spending much time alone constructing songs. You do it with an arranger, I do it with a recorder. Only I will say this there are a few songs ive done directly inspired by what you arranger players do.

Such as "F-Zero GX" that I just posted up at the link...
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=4453&alid=-1

Its a basic bass line/melody/drumloop and perhaps an example I do relate to you guys a bit and that you rub off on me more then you think.

thanks for that Alone and forsaken. I also record using normal methods (whenever time permits) but i use an arranger because i can reconfigure songs that i perform with my church choir (black Gospel music ) very quickly. I use only my own patterns with original bass lines chords etc. It allows me to try out several different grooves to a song actually in real time so i can instantly gauge how the choir are feeling the song and make adjustments on the fly.I can transpose a song instantly (without using the buttons) or completely reconfigure the song adding chorus, or altering the bridge etc "live" . This just could not be done with a standard workstation. When i know how the choir is responding to the progressions i then record it again instantly on board the instrument and can immediately relay the style that i want to any live musicians that i want to get involved.

Thats why i think arranger keyboards specifically have a clear advantage over other types of work stations and thats what makes them unique in the array of musical instruments.

Part of the problem is you didn't fill out your profile, we don't know your age, your occupation, where you're from, your influences so what have you got to hide?
I would like to know if english is your first language because alot of your phrases don't make any sense. "Gurrr Mad " what does that mean?
And yes as the name states this is an arranger keyboard forum run by, for and with users of arranger type keyboards. Do you think you will make friends by coming here and posting negative things about arranger keyboards?
Alot of your comments are rude and arrogant, and lack maturity and we have yet to see anything from you that would help us forgive or explain any of your attitude.
We try to welcome new people into this forum no matter what their musical preference, but attitude we can do without. We like to try and treat each other with respect and common sense, and with a little civility.
Maybe your attitude has alot to do with why your are alone and foresaken.

Gloves off.

You know what would really be great? If everyone stuck to keyboard instruments as a topic; arranger keyboards, workstation keyboards, analogue modeling keyboards, Hammond wannabe keyboards, whatever. Just keyboards.

How about everyone stop trying to push others buttons just to get a reaction. DAMN!

Nigel was nice enough to create a new forum called 'The Bar' for those that wanted to talk about non-music related topics. Maybe he should create another forum called 'Be a jerk for the heck of it' where people can bash each other for no real reason but still have the satisfaction of the entire world having the ability to view their rants.

At first in this thread, I thought The Pro was wrong for being negative toward Alone's song styles. No my cup of tea either, but that is no reason to put someone else’s work down. I still think he was wrong, but then Alone started getting mouthy as well and then it became obvious that this is just a pissing contest as someone else pointed out.

Why clutter up this forum with this kind of stuff?

OK, back to work. Dave

I agree with Dave

"At first in this thread, I thought The Pro was wrong for being negative toward Alone's song styles. No my cup of tea either, but that is no reason to put someone else’s work down. I still think he was wrong, but then Alone started getting mouthy as well and then it became obvious that this is just a pissing contest as someone else pointed out."

It should be about the music, that's what I'm saying. Because of new technologies, more and more people are getting into music creation. Computer based software, arranger keyboards, etc. have opened up music creation for those who may otherwise not have the training or ability to enjoy making music on their own. And that is great. It doesn't matter how the music is created or what medium is used, or what the chosen music genre happens to be. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, or promote others to hurt our planet or fellow living beings, then go for it.

Short story:
Back when I was 18 years old the band I was in got booked at a bar that was shall we say, very white. We didn't know this until we got there to set up. It wasn't really a problem for me or the guitar player, but the drummer was this little black kid of 16 years old. As soon as he walked in the door it was like a movie. The juke box stopped and every head in the place turned to the front door. Being the trooper that Eddie was, he carried his kick drum in, sat it on the stage and went out to get the next load. You could tell a lot of the crowd was not real thrilled to say the least.

Here is the cool part. Once we were set up and started playing, it took 2 songs for the crowd to forget about anything other than the music. And when it came to the end of the night, several of the 'jaw to the floor' guys came up and said how good we were and offered to help carry our equipment out. That is what music should accomplish.

The point is, I have always loved music and am thankful that I can play an instrument and that there are those who actually enjoy hearing what I have to say musically. Music should make you feel good. And music related things should generate the same emotions.

So when you find yourself wanting to say something negative against another forum member, how about thinking about the music instead?

Dave

imho wdmcm has hit it...(i dont post alot here and am only a junior member, with not much in my profile because of my security concerns with the the internet) ..making disparaging remarks in a totally destructive manner about someone elses creativity is not on in my book and is not giving them a fair go .the music is also not really my taste BUT there are some really interesting musical points in some of the guy's work, which if you listen with non-biased objective ears and hearts you might also hear.....as muso's we have a common bond that binds us probably greater than any of the other arts. diff'ren strokes!! an all that..imho i think "the pro" has perhaps backed himself into a corner from which he feels there is no escape...and that is a shame, and is very sad, anyhoo off my soapbox..as a junior member i should perhaps be more circumspect!!!

peace, out

Lots of stuff for me to reply to...nothing negative. If anything a bit of my music past will spring into this in relation to what spalding posted. Kinda cool stuff I think. Just not right now.

One quick thing about this " pissing " contest...I dint mean for it to come off that way, just in a topic that I removed ( cause I have a habit of clearing the old when I post something new as to not flood the boards )...I was told that " my recordings were horrid crap and the worst thing this year " ( not exact quote ). So I reacted to that a bit LOL I dont think ive got the best stuff ever...but outright just to trash everything with nothing but bad intent was a bit much. Then my next topic I get much the same thing...while the names of people I directed the song to and the fact I stated I would post more keyboard driven stuff was ignored.

Anyhow ( with no attitude ) back to spalding. I think its really cool you play for a church and in part it was a musician much like you that got me into playing piano. As the church I went to almost always had a grand on stage that would be played for our hymns, after sermons sometimes I would have the chance to talk to the player and sometimes even play the grand! Many people we knew at that time had uprights in their house that I could play whenever I happened to be at one of their houses. Just lots of stuff...this lead up to me getting a keyboard from my parents ( little monophonic digital casio...one that would have dots bounce around the lcd keyboard screen to show the melody lines ). Then had one of those Magnus reed organs with the casio hahaha and at the time there used to be children's books that would have a little keyboard pasted to them and you could read the story and play notes on it so that was mixed in with everything. Beyond that throughout childhood...just had lots of instruments many toys, some perhaps with more merit then toys, and it all progressed to " real " instruments as time went on. Oh random childhood hero of mine was Paul Schaffer from the David letterman show ( forgive name spelling ) hahaha and to this day he is still one of the coolest key players to me regardless of what I happen to do.

So spalding...odds are a kid in your church REALLY digs what you do, so if ever you have a kid come up to you...treat them how you would want to be treated if your places were flipped ( only I think you know and have prob done this already ).

Guess this kinda goes back ( for me ) what these boards have to offer me...people like Mr. D and their love of the new Casio line brings me nostalgia and something to blah blah blah about. The players here that do shows for retirement homes...I respect that and love the fact someone is doing it. My grandfather passed away just over a year ago...and I know the music he loved brought him some comfort in his last days at the hospital ( my mother and I sung him Hank Williams songs best we could...cause it was really hard as we knew his time on this earth wasn't long ).

Perhaps I haven't let on that I do have a level of respect for members here...and to be honest part of the reason I haven't directly shown it is cause I feel sometimes words I offer and music I post up is ignored taken for granted or just disrespected. I have as much in common with members here as I dont...in many ways I might even be a counter point to what many members goals and ambitions are. Just with that I feel the things we dont have in common at times can be of use to members here, cause not to be any sort of way only sometimes I think " Man if they combined the stuff they do...with some of the stuff I focus on they would do some badass stuff " maybe that works in reverse or maybe Im a jerk for thinking such things.

Now that's the side of you I like to hear from.
Like many others, I'm just not responding to any of the bashing and negativity.
DonM

Well said

yeah Alone and forsaken. The kids at church love what me and the band do because its accessible and music of their genre. I dont do piano lessons as such but every once in a while i hold a music composition clinic for any one thats interested in composing contemporary music. The kids love it as it is more hands on and less formal than music lessons. But the thing that grabs them is the fact that they can start making great sounding music almost immediately and thats what drew me into arranger keyboards. Many many young people have increedible musicality but not necessarily the skills or the money to deveope those skills right away. But if they can be inspired to start making music and can be shown the bones of doing it , it amazing how focused they can suddenly be! No more dragging little micheal to his piano lesson every friday! I am sedriously thinking about setting up this form of music tuition on a more formal basis but i simply dont have the time. But as a side issue the interests and ownership of arranger keyboards in my church as a result of the kind of things my band and i can do with the choir is very high.

The snobbish attitude that is associated with arranger keyboards i feel is mainly down to the fact that " musicians " dont really appreciate what these keyboards can do and are still stuck in the mould of seeing arrangers as those little bontempi organ things that my brother had when he was 4! Sorry rambled a bit. God bless and keep posting.