Hi everybody...

sorry for the question below from a discussion board newbie...but the following happened last Saturday...

I visited my local music dealer and he has a room were you have all the keyboards mainly mentioned in this forum:

KN6000 and KN6500, PSR 9000 and PSR 9000 PRO, VA7 and VA76, PA80, Ketron X1 and SD1

and in another room all the PSRxx, Casio, smaller Rolands and so on...

Ok I said, here is the chance to compare a little bit and to see what all the people are talking about in this great forum. By the way, I have a PSR740. I do not use Styles and Acmp, because I play and sing in a real 4 man band. We are doing songs from "Kastelruther Spatzen" (Bavarian Folk Songs) up to AC/DC and ZZ-Top. I play very often "Heavy Guitar Sounds" on my PSR740 to support my lead guitar player during his solos and believe it or not, it sounds great. But anyway...

During my little experiment I played the themes of "Let it be" (Grand Pinao), "Ring of fire" (Trumpets), "Hold the line" (CP80)and "Fuerstenfeld" (Austrian Folk Music with a great Accordion line).

Now my question...

I don't know why, but nearly every sound on these keyboards disappointed me.

Or better said, the sounds of PSR9000/9000 PRO are nearly the same like PSR740.

For example...on the KN6500 the piano is terrible, it sounds in the lower area (below C3) like a mixture between Accoustic Guitar and Piano. You can hear exactly the multi sampling areas, where one area stops and the other begins.
On the Ketron stuff pianos are quite good, but no enough brilliance. The pinao on PA80...oh god...you can buy a Casio instead.
On the VA7/76 we have a nice one.

I did my testings for more then two hours...

And is was nearly the same for all other sounds in comparision to my PSR740. Okay...I did some programming or better said configuration (on PSR740 there is no Sound Creator) to enhance the sound quality, specially with the help of layering sounds and the five DSPs available.

But why are the sounds on these high end keyboards not so good, one would expect if you see the prices for these devices (or is the prices e.g. for the KN6500 so high - in German DM about 6000 - because of the really nice color TFT-Display...is nearly like watching TV. Why you can't play video games...ok.ok...just kidding)

Did I something wrong? Especially are the factory presets not so good and you have to do some kind of programming to show the sound quality of all these units? Or are my ears ill? ;-)

Who can help me to solve my confusion, because I'm looking for a new keyboard (maybe the new PSR2000)

Thanks from Germany

Hi Datablues,
since you play in a band, say that you don't need styles for comping and your main concern is sound quality, maybe you would be better off with a synthesizer (like the new Yamaha Motif) or a module, like the Roland XV 3080/5080, instead of an arranger; by the way, since these units are cheaper than the average top-rate arranger, you would also spare some of your hard earned marks...
Greetings,
Andrea

Dreamer, maybe you're not right...

I had a lot of this synth-stuff like

DX7-IID, D-10, D-50, of course M1, SC-55, 03RW, 05RW, X5DR, Kurzweil Micropiano, Alesis Nano-Synth, JV1010, XP-50, XP-80 fully equipped with 4 Cards, Proteus P2000.

I sold everything, cause I was so bored programming sounds. I like to play my keyboard and to exercise but not to spend more time programming as playing music. Therefore in my opinion the arranger keyboard are the best choice. A lot of sounds are ready made, you can use them with only a little modification.

My actual setup is a PSR740 togehter with a NX5R (a little bit kind of nostalgia, cause I grow up in the Korg M1 area). That's all, not to much to carry, fast setup on stage...

My question was...why do high priced keyboards not sound much better as the midrange one. Was it my mistake, did I something wrong?

Thanks

Hi Datablues,
all I can suggest is that you make another comparison listening to different keyboards through a pair of good quality headphones. I own a Roland VA 7 and am quite satisfied with its sounds (many of them are taken directly from the JV/XV series). I think that the Yamaha PSR 9000/9000 Pro have excellent sounds, better than the PSR 740, but if you cannot hear the difference (not even through headphones) this means that you are lucky and can be satisfied with your present setup.
Regards

Hello Datablues,

I am confuse you can't find a difference in the PA-80 sounds and PSR740 ? that is so strange at this moments I have both Triton and PA-80 hooked to a same sound system and believe it or not they are identical in sounds who ever told you other wise is not telling the truth even some sounds are better in PA-80 especially sax, violins, flutes due to additional vibrato effect now I have tried PSR 9000 (not the pro) extensively, it is a nice board if you want a complete arranger keyboard (including sampler) but even its sounds does not come close to PA-80 (except Grand Piano & some guitars which are better in Yamaha) cause Yamaha is using the same sounds for years now (AWM I think) well it obivously depends upon personal taste some prefer Yamaha sounds but Korg PA-80 is the only one in the arranger market at this moment to use company's highest end synth engine inside of an arranger, now Motif is a different story it does sound nice but flat you have to tweak it a lot to get the most out of it I think out of the Box PA-80 sounds the nicest in all and don't forget it is a grand cheaper than 9000 pro, and remember that my comparison is based solely on sounds only cause in over all features, built and quality of the product Yamaha 9000 and pro are much and I mean much better, jusy my 2 cents.



[This message has been edited by Arbaz (edited 08-13-2001).]

Hello,

I understand few things:

1) the grand piano sounds in all arrangers are lacking.

2) PSR740 sounds are very good and very close (if not identical) to PSR9Kpro

3) PA80 does not sound as good in acoustic sounds because it has a triton engine which is better for synth-type sounds.

Questions,

1) would you please elaborate on SD1?

2) Have you tested XV3080?


P.S., do not bother testing motif, it is not that different from PSR9Kpro...AKA 740

Hello everybody...

thanks for your postings to this topic...

Maybe I should specify my testing a little bit better. I do not use headphones, I used the build in speakers of the keyboards with exception of PSR9000 PRO and SD1 (no speakers, you must have a headphone or better said the SD1 was connected to a mini PA with excellent speakers).

I also tested only 4 standard sounds (grand piano, trumpets, CP80 and accordion). These are standard sounds you need very often (maybe with exception of CP80) and I would expect, that these sounds are excellent in a keyboard for let's say $3000 and more...

I found what sk880user confirmed

1) the grand piano sounds in all arrangers are lacking. Why?

2) The tested sounds of PSR740 are very good and very close (if not identical) to PSR9Kpro

3) PA80 does not sound as good in acoustic sounds because it has a triton engine which is better for synth-type sounds. (I tested Trinity and Triton very often. And I do not need so much synth-sounds for my band playing)...

1) would you please elaborate on SD1?

On SD1 I found the piano has a very dark and heavy sound. Maybe be using EQs or changing the cutoff freq. of the internal filters this will become much better. The settings on the mini PA (at which the SD1 was connected) were neutral.

2) Have you tested XV3080?

Yes I did with XV5080 but without the new SRX-02 concert piano card. My feeling is always that Roland is able to do good strings and organs, but not pianos... But this is subjective

sk880user...thanks for the tip testing motif, but I think I will stay with midrange keyboards like the PSR740 or PSR2000 (weight of only 10,5 kg :-)) ), cause we are playing very often and I hate carrying heavy keyboards. Did anybody ever carry a Fender Rhodes Mark II (I had one years ago)...

Regards from Germany...

Greetings Datablues & All,
You seem to have discovered that no arranger keyboard is perfect. And each has it's own strengths & weaknesses. You will never find two people here to agree on which synth/arranger has the best "this" sound or "that" sound. Because, what we each like is so personal and individual. I like the piano's on my 740. But they sometimes are better on my KN5000 (depending on which preset effects are chosen). And the Grand piano on the pa80 is WAY better than the piano on the Korg iS40. But they are all different. Nice in their own ways. One other thing, with amplification, most do sound much better. Even headphones do not do true justice. And the built-in speakers, uhhh, are limited.
Tom

These discussions can go on forever, but sounds and preferences are very subjective, and what piano sound you like may be totally different from what I like. This is why when looking to purchase a board I feel it is important to sample boards for yourself to determine which board has the sounds and features that will best work for you. I own both a PA80 and 740 and have owned until recently casio's top offering, the MZ2000. I have also played extensively on a PSR9000 and a bit on a G1000 and KN5000.
I didnt play enough on the latter 2 to make a good call, but I totally agree on the sounds from the 740 and 9k being very close. This and the feeling that the styles were also very similar is why I chose not to upgrade from the 740 to the 9k. As far as comparing the 740 to the PA80. When I listen to finished wav files that I have made using the same software for both, to me the ones made with the 740 do not sound as goodas the ones made with the PA80. I like a lot of the sounds on both boards.. I just like the PA80s better. The Mz piano as good as the PA80.. Not a chance in my book. In fact I like the PA80s piano better than the 740s. That's what I mean about subjective. I like the 740s acoustic guitar sounds a lot but I do not like the amplified guitar sounds at all. I think they use some of the worst effects I have ever heard. Even the MZ had a better sounding distorion guitar and actually I liked it a much if not more than the one on the PA80. The bottom line is .. trust your OWN ears when deciding to pick a board based on its sounds. What I think is not going to help someone at all if their ears don't like the piano sound on the PA80.

AJ