Ok, I'm almost about to lay down cash for a:

TC Helicon 'VoiceWorks' Vocal Processor/Harmonizer: http://www.tc-helicon.com/VoiceWorks

At $699 (street price) it's not cheap, at least for me, so I want to find out if it's worth the $.

I'm also curious what additional features & improvements it offers compared to the Digitech Vocalist Workstation EX (which I previously owned) and the Tyros' built in Vocalizer. The thing I really liked about the Digitech Vocalist Workstation was that it's small and can easily sit on a table top or on the keyboard itself affording convenient access to its LCD screen & controls: sliders.

The onboard vocal harmonizer built into my Yamaha Tyros works & sounds great for 'live' performance, but in the recording studio, its weakness quickly becomes evident (quick to distortion and/or harmony voice drop outs). In addition, for studio recording I want to record my vocals discretlely from the Tyros independently from the Tyros L/R audio outputs. I want to trigger the vocal harmonies via my Tyros keyboard (via midi) and assume that it's easy to configure the "VoiceWorks" to recognize the auto accomp chords I play on the Tyros in real time or from the song (with auto accomp chords) I record on the Tyros' onboard sequencer.

Being that the 'VoiceWorks' will mostly remain in my very small studio, but taken out occasionally for especially demanding venues, I'm also searching for a small & light as possible (preferably single space) rack to store the 'VoiceWorks' unit in. Any ideas?

I'm looking forward to hearing from people with experience with the VoiceWorks. Thanks, - Scott

Scott ,

I have a TC Helicon VoicePrism ......in the box never used on consignment . $500.00

I could give you the owners address if you wish to converse with him . He plays professionally , 5 nights a week and bought this unit , but never used it .

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Technics,Ketron Yamaha Casio arranger keyboards . www.keyboardcity.net
1-866-348-8876

[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 01-14-2004).]

Scott what I'm gonna say here most of the others gonna be against it, but as a friend have to put my perspective, because most people think that with a harmoniser they have the world at thier feet.

I have been using you Digitec for some time now, and I am very pleased with the SEMPLICITY and it's effect, if you go back to a thread I had, about my friend when he bought the TC Helicon.
In my opinion I don't think it is worth that much money for Digitech does a good job when I heard the Factory Presets of TC I wasn't impressed a bit always for the money it costs, we tweaked into it and it is not that easy to get use to, more complicated than the Digitech, if you are willing to wait a lot of time in setting it I think it will get you there, but you have to work very hard to get your liking.

I would like to suggest another way for you to record, isin't better to record your voice since you have a multi Track and transpose your voice ? it surely sound more natural because in recordings whatever Machine you use still sound ROBOTIC. So I will try first doing a second voice, you have a very high pitch and can easly do the job with no extra money spent.

I always say Harmonisers are good for live performance but for recording I don't like.

This is my humble opinion, but I felt had to feed it here.

Whateve you decide don't rush into buying.

Tony.

Scott...go for it.. now that you have the new HDR in your studio you'll be soaring to new heights Musiclaly!! Uncle Dave can give you advice too, he's familiar with TC Helicon products.

Good Luck

Scott,

I try to do as much as I can without the harmonizer. I haven't heard one that's not robotic. The ih for the i30 was made by the same people who make Digitec. It does 4 parts and you can choose which parts to use.

For example like on the tune "After The Loving" I click the harmonizer to answer on the word (someone) at the end of the bridge to get the answering chorus effect behind my vocals.

On a few tunes like "Cab Driver" I use it more. I'm more careful of using the harmonizer than I am of using the styles personally. It does wear thin on me.

I tried playing my sax through it and it sounds awful. Anyone ever try having a horn play through their harmonizer? If yes, does it sound really clear as if more then one sax or trumpet is actually playing?

Scott,
As you probably know Wietse & I switched from Korg iH to the TC VoiceWorks about 6 months ago.... and we love this machine !

We use it on stage with the 3 button switchunit (operated by Wietse)
Wietse has a great voice and this is probably why the harmonies absolutely sound NON-robotic. (if set at the right levels)

I hear many demo-recordings where the amount of harmony is far too high..... sometimes they make the original voice 'invisible'.... very very wrong !

We are very pleased with this VW because of quality and features. (pre-amp, phantom, noisegate, dynamics, EQ's,reverbs, pitch correction, harmony-hold etc)

Dan01's Voice-Prism design is slightly older and misses pitch-corr and harmony hold as far as I know. I think the VW sounds better and is more compact.

Roel

Scott,

I sincerely believe that if you A/B the TC and the Digitech VR through the same system, record them both using the same vocal arrangement, you probably will not be able to tell which is which by listening to them. That's a whole lot of money for something that may be marginally better and rarely used.

Gary

Scott
I am in agreement with Roel here. Worth the money and worth the difference in price to the others. The Prism is older technology and harder to operate. As with all sound things though it's subjective.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I'll post a Digitech sample this week for you all. It sounds great, but the TC has an edge in effects, cleanliness and versitility.
For live - the Digi is perfect. In the studio .... you can definatly benifit from the added gingerbread. I'll post that sample as soon as I can.

Ok guys, againest my better judgement I've gone ahead and ordered a 'VoiceWorks' unit from Guitar Center. Should arrive on Monday. I got it for under $700, not cheap, but includes a 30 day return & full refund for whatever reason, so I suppose it's a pretty risk free trial deal.

I've read & appreciate everyone's advice and feedback on this thread. You've all make very valid points for/against going with the TC Helicon 'VoiceWorks' and I've taken them all into consideration.

DanO: I'll let you know how the the 'VoiceWorks' works out. If not, I'll give the Voice Prism you're selling some thought, but from what Roel & Terry say, it sounds like the 'VoiceWorks' sounds substantially better overall, even though the Voice Prism may have certain features missing on the VoiceWorks.

Ziggy, as you know, I'm the previous owner of 'your' Digitech Vocalist Workstation EX and remember appreciating that unit for its size, operating ease & convenienceuse, and felt the harmonies sounded very good, but imho, only a tad better than the Tyros' built in harmonizer unit. The problem with utilizing the Tyros built in harmonizer for recording purposes, is that both the vocal audio the midi keyboard audio output are routed out from the Tyros thru the same L/R audio output jacks. I need to record vocals with harmonies and dedicate them to their own track , or even choose to record each separate harmony part to different tracks, in my digital recorder or in Sonar. Is this possible with the TC Helicon VoiceWorks unit?

Boo: I agree that it's too easy to over use the harmonizer, and that it can quickly sound like a gimicky robotic crutch. I usually prefer to keep my vocals pure without added vocalizer enhancement, but there are some situations and specific songs which demand more than one voice. I generally use the vocalizer only for a specific section (such as the chorus) of a song, or to emphasize the hook phrase or specific word of a song. I do notice how much audiences are continually impressed and amazed when I do use the vocalizer.

Boo, I'm really intrigued how you're able get the 'answer chorus' effect with your vocalizer. This is something I've been really wishing to accomplish, but with the vocalizers I've used so far, the 'answer chorus' always ends up sounding synthetic and phoney because it is so exposed (no lead voice). Does the TC Helicon Voiceworks provide harmony voices that sound decent even in an exposed scenerio as Boo describes? How about if the 'answer chorus' is only one voice? Do the 'VoiceWorks' solo voices sound fairly convincing as well?

Roel: Curious which rack (if any) you use to store your VoiceWorks unit. I'm looking for the smallest 1 or 2 space rack with smallest footprint & lightweight unit possible.

Roel & Terry: Interesting to hear that even though the VoicePrism is quite a bit more expensive than the VoiceWorks, the VoiceWorks sounds better. Is the midi implementation (for triggering harmonies from the keyboard (Tyros) real easy to setup on the VoiceWorks?

Gary: Have you actually A/B compared the TC Helicon VoiceWorks or Voice Prism & Digitech VR units side by side and/or made an A/B comparative studio recording? If so, I'm really interested in hearing more about your observations.

Uncle Dave: As I primarily want to utilize a dedicated vocal harmony unit for studio recording, I'm really anxious to hear just 'how much' better the VoiceWorks sounds compared to the Digitech unit. I realize that you've got the rack version of the Digitech Vocalizer. I personally prefer the more compact table top desing of the Digitech Vocalist Workstation EX, but if the VoiceWorks really sounds substantially better than the Digitech, I suppose it will be worth the additional cost to me.

Scott

Scott
"Roel & Terry: Interesting to hear that even though the VoicePrism is quite a bit more expensive than the VoiceWorks, the VoiceWorks sounds better. Is the midi implementation (for triggering harmonies from the keyboard (Tyros) real easy to setup on the VoiceWorks?"

There are 3 different types of patches on the VW.

They allow you to follow midi chords, single notes or neitherand it will just follow voice pitch (so you have to sing on and in key).

For the "chord" patches, it's just a matter of plugging a midi cable in and making sure the channels in each match up, just that simple.

Too bad you were'nt ready for this when I had that one for $519.00.
Terry



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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Yep ! Very easy to use Scott.

Tonight I'll shoot a picture of my 'rack' (in fact the same Samsonite suitcase )
The only equipment in it is The VoiceWorks, Behringer 6 ch. Mixer and Sony MD for music during our very short breaks.

Hi Guys - I have a voiceprism plus (with voice modelling card) and I agree that it can be very difficult to set up as there as so many different parameters. However when these are stored into your own presets then it is simplicity itself to use.

Like all harmonisers you shouldn't overuse the thing and when I'm working with it I generally use only two part harmony with the harmony voice(s) only on half the volume of the main voice. I find this the most acceptable with audiences.

However, the real plus for me is the voice modelling card. I use it to process my solo voice for a more gutsy/raspy/soulful sound as my normal voice is quite wimpy and I need all the help I can get. I also use it to give me female voices for alternative harmony without it sounding munchkin/speedy mouse etc.

I don't use it for recording harmonies as you can easily multitrack and there is no pitchshift/correction. But for alternative gender and voice types it was worth the cash.

Regards - KF

Scott,

I sent you the pics !

Roel

Scott,

YES! And in my case, though I'm not rolling in money, I would have put out the extra $400 had I thought it would have been that much better. Unfortunately, it was not $400 better, and at best, I found it marginally better than the Digitech VR.

The other part of the equation was the actual use time of the vocalizer, which is quite limited. Bottom line was I can find a lot better ways to spend $400. In fact, that's what I anticipate that I'll have to pay for a back-up laptop, which will get used a lot more.

Good Luck, and I hope everything works out for you. At least you have the 30 day return option to fall back on.

Gary

Yes, I have to admit that having the 30 day satisfaction guaranteed refund option makes purchasing music gear a whole LOT easier & risk free. With all the mixed/varied opinions here about this piece, I realize that I just have to try the 'VoiceWorks' out for myself and then form my own opinion, and I do promise to share it with you. Scott

Scott,

The best way to get an objective review is to post two, identical MP3s, one using the TC and the other using the Tyros vocal processor. Just mark them A & B and let everyone listen to them before telling us which is which. Remember, we used the same benchmark with Terry for the recorder VS the computer, but he still opted to buy the recorder, despite having more than 2/3 of the members voting for the computer. You just never know!

Gary

Though certainly a good cross sectional poll of people's views here, I wouldn't call it objective, as everyone's vote is still subjective.

At this point, I've quickly learned that opinions are like as@holes, everyone's got one, including myself My personal feeling about the Tyros & PSR2000/2100 built in harmonizers are that they're great for live work, but sub par for serious studio recording. If the TC Helicon sounds impressive (to me), is relatively ez to operate, and fits into my particular recording style, then it will be keeper (iregardless of the results of any poll here) and worth the expense. If not, back it goes. I wish life could always be this simple. I'm learning.

On the subject of the Digital Audio Recorder vs Computer (Sonar) thing, I admit I was among the ones who preferred the computer vs DAW in Terry's MP3 test, but the 'real' world doesn't work this way. Now that I own both Sonar 3 and a Korg D1200mkII DAW, I can honestly say that I feel a lot more comfortable 'creating' music on the D1200mkII. As a musician (and not a studio engineer), tweaking and listening for minute frequency differences is not where it's at in the end. I want a piece of equipment that won't get in the way of my creative music making flow, and for now I appreciate the convenience of the D1200mkII. I now look forward to auditioning the TC Helicon Voiceworks as well. - Scott