Dschultze, a very well articulated and fair review. It has been at least 6 months since I have played the Korg and maybe they have addressed and reprogrammed some endings in the recent OS upgrades, but I am surprised that you did not notice or comment on the lack of short endings in most of the Korg styles. When you need to end the song quickly and do not want a 2-3 bar ending, the Korg comes up way short for me. The only way to do it is to probably use a "synchro end" setting... Yamaha always provides a short ending and this makes the styles so much more usable.

P.S. I auditioned the Roland G-70 at NAMM and it had no short endings either.

[This message has been edited by oleg7 (edited 10-14-2005).]

oleg7,

You are wrong about the Roland G-70 not having short endings. Ending #1 on all Rom styles is a simple one measure ending.

I think that the G-70 has the best intro/endings of any arranger keyboard.

Intro/ending # 1 is a simple one measure intro/ending.

Intro/Ending #2 is always a four measure intro or ending that lets you supply the chord changes. This lets you have endings that "fits" the song and they all don't sound the same.

Intro/Ending #3 is longer and has a chord progression built-in but does not contain a melody line. The player adds a melody line on top of the arranger ending.

Intro/Ending #4 is the same as #3 but there is a melody line included.

I tried the PA1XPro and I strongly disliked the endings. On most styles, there is no short one measure ending. One of the endings lets you make the chord changes, except the length varied from four to ten measures depending on the style. You would have to remember how long the ending was for each style so you would trigger it at the right measure. The other ending supplied a very sophisticated chord progessions and orchestration. These were very well done except for three problems.
1.The length would very from four to ten measures depending on the style.
2.The chord progession and the ending were usualy more sophisticated than the chord progression in the song. The ending did not seem to fit with the song and did not sound natural.
3. The ending sounded like the same ending for every song using a particular style.

The PA1XPro has many terrific features but I could not live with the style endings.

At this time I have only briefly played one at the Ketron Midjay Demonstration given by Prince AJ that I attended a few weeks ago showing off all its attributs.
I was very impressed with the unit. Once I get it, I intend to give my thoughts after I fully explore the unit, set it up and play it on stage in a live situation. More to come

dschultze
Once again, very detailed and precious comparison; thank you very much. I was in the same situation than you few days ago and finally I very recently commanded a Tyros 2. I already own a PA 60 which rendered me great services and for that I decide to preserve it ! Korg has very great sounds and also punchy and groovy styles, but as you noticed, (I don't know exactly for the PA1X) when you want to edit something, you risk to have a headache and...spend a lot time ! A very great feature that seduces me on the Yam is that you can combine any element of 2 different styles and in a easy way; for example, you can import the compressed kick of one techno style and the bass motif of a funky groove rythm within a salsa. I think that such a combining possibility allows you great things.
Say that,with the Tyros 2,I have always that impression (I hope that is only an impression) of an attenuated sounding color, effectively less briliant than Korg.

[This message has been edited by rumbero (edited 10-15-2005).]

KeybPlayer you could not be more wrong about the polyphony of the korg PA1X.You are doing your maths wrong because you dont know how they handle polyphony.

Although it has 62 notes polyphony it handles that polyphony better than most 128 note polyphony keyboards including the Yamaha. Just because a sound may use 2 or 3 tibre/components to create a single sound, it does not follow that all the sounds are triggered at the same time. Korg have programmed the PA1X in such a way that the keyboard triggers combined sounds so that only the notes of polyphony actually required to make a sound are used when played.

eg the guitar may have a slight puck sound when played on the keyboard gently, it may have a more distorted sound when played harshly and may have more harmonics when played at the higher registers. Allthough there may be 3 or 4 different components that make up that single sound set, they are not all triggered simultaneously and only when required so if you really hammer the keyboard you might use up more poly but only the poly needed to produce the required sound. With my yamaha,if i play a single note that has a combined sound at different velocities the yamaha will still use all the notes of polyphony even if only one is required to play the sound i want, so whether i play soft or hard all the notes of polyphony are used at once.

Play the PA1X keyboard if you dont believe me and try and get a drop out!!! I talked to the Moderator at "Irish Acts" a guy called "sharp" who also designed some of the sounds on the Korg Extreme and is used extensively by korg for sound creation on their keyboards as this was one of my concerns after reading some of the posts on this board about the PA1X. There is nothing to fear regarding poly with the PA1X.

After literally looking for a replacement arranger for at least 3 years my PA1X gets delivered on Tuesday !!!

Spalding .....Great spot on explaination regarding polyphony. The PAX1X is an awesome KB that will let you create whatever you want to do once you learn how......and that is the point with many of these Arrangers.....YOU have the power to make it sound the way YOU want to as you can customize in so many ways.......why would anyone want a company to dictate what I want to sound like out of the box which is usualy not acceptable?.....just give me the tools & I WILL BUILD THE HOUSE!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-15-2005).]

Well said!!!

Congratulations on your soon to arrive Pa1X spalding!

Btw, your explanation of how Korg utilizes polyphony is very interesting. I did not know Korg allocated polyphony in such a way. If what you say is true then note drop outs would occur less frequently but unfortunately it is already an established fact that the Pa1X/PRO experiences note drop outs as confirmed by more than one of our SZ members who own the Pa1X/PRO.

Depending on your style of playing (e.g. no multiple layering of voices, sustain, etc.) you may never experience note drop outs yourself but don't count on it.

Let us know, if after you put it through its paces, that it indeed passes the test with flying colors.

I for one know that if I played it I would most definitely break the camels back so to speak, because of my style of playing and as others who own the Pa1X/PRO have already attested to that they also have experienced drop outs. But I commend Korg for the excellent way they allocate and distribute polyphony on the Pa1X. What they need to do in the future in my opinion is give their Boards at least 96 note polyphony (128 would be better yet); then they would be way ahead of the game and hopefully convince Yamaha to give their future Arrangers "256" note polyphony, which btw, can already be found on their current high end CVP line.

I don't see what the hinderance is to any of the big three or other players in the Keyboard game giving their Arrangers or even traditional Workstations much more polyphony than what we already see in current products. I think one reason that there is such a reluctance is that manufacturers try (are trying) to milk every ounce out of the current numbers, i.e. "sticking with 62/128/etc. for as long as they can to garner as much money possible from each current standard (niche) that the market supports, or rather 'allows'. It is that incremental increase that keeps not only the Big Three alive but all the rest of the manufacturers alive as well in my opinion. If they give too much too soon they basically shoot themselves in the foot and lose large quantities of revenue they otherwise would and do retain by doing the carrot on a stick approach regarding increases and upgrades to existing technologies. It's all about their bottom line as I am finding out, and the customer unfortunately is caught in the crossfires and not placed in the position as "number one" as they should be in my estimation.

Yamaha in particular cares about their customers but when it comes between us and their bottom line guess who wins out?

Aah Ha! I see you guessed correctly also huh?.. Yes, the bottom line wins out every time, so we/I have to keep playing the waiting game for the keyboard that will be a knock-out punch and the one that will meet my meticulous and demanding playing needs right out of the box. Because unfortunately I for one am finding out that I can't really count on Yamaha to support their products once they've been shipped. Trying to get Yamaha to support their products (even their most prized high-end products) is, in my opinion, like trying to pull teeth or squeeze juice from a turnip. It ain't easy as they say. And even though Yammie gives a Board the ability to update itself over the internet doesn't necessarily mean that that particular feature will be used to its utmost potential as we've found out with the Tyros and the misgivings had with the PSR 2000 fiasco.

I can't speak for other companies though but from what I've heard and 'seen' Roland and Korg seem to be very motivated in addressing issues and even adding feature additions and enhancements to their current Flagships. May it ever be so! Yamaha in my opinion needs to get on the Bandwagon in that regards.

So what we as customers have to do (what I do anyway) is play the waiting game until the Big Three and or others 'catch up' to what I/We are wanting as far as features and abilities in a keyboard go, and then and only then will I 'bite' the "lure" and take the bait to what they have to offer. And with Yamaha I can never be assured that they will actually support their product beyond what is available right out of the Box with any degree of certainty and satisfaction. So it's basically pay and 'pray'. And because of that I am a little leery to shell out my hard earned money to them again.

I wish I didn't have to feel that way about Yammie but unfortunately I do because of their inconsistent track record...

Best regards,
Mike

PS: Sorry for going off on a tangent but thanks for bearing with me. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img]



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 10-15-2005).]

Spalding, you are very wrong. All Yamaha products use only the polyphony required for a certain velocity layer. Even if a voice would consist of 128 mono velocity layers, a Yamaha product would use the polyphony of 1, not more.
I am really wondering where you got that wrong information and even worse, why it’s spread here.

Hi keybplayer
Are you sure they have a PA1X/PRO? I have had a PA1X about 16 monts and I never experienced such things. You must accept that it´s very hard to beat PA1X/PRO. Maybe it´s time to purchase one
Regards
Franky