Ok folks, as I had predicted might happen, Donny Pesce (DNJ) went ahead afterall, & DELETED the posting thread he initiated entitled: "I thought the BAR was for OT posts, what happened?!" I'm disappointed with him for continuing his reputation of initiating threads, and then arbitrarily deleting them (on a whim) just because he's not happy with the responses. I find this disrespectful to SZ members (my self included) who take valuable time & effort out to compose often well thought out replies. I realize that the SZ posting format permits thread initiators to DELETE the ENTIRE thread at ANY time, but out of simple RESPECT & COURTESSY for fellow members, feel that once someone replies to a thread, that the thread NOT be deleted. A word to the wise: "Think BEFORE you initiate a posting thread topic !"

Because I value the often differing views of SZ members, and had suspected Donny Pesce might eventually remove his thread, I went ahead & saved it (including the 18 posting replies), and have re-printed it here (see below). - Scott


Dnj
Member posted 04-26-2005 02:45 PM
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looks like we're right back to the same thing again....no wonder people left this forum...
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SemiLiveMusic
Member posted 04-26-2005 04:47 PM
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Darn, Donnie, how many times do we have to go over this? Nigel has flat-out stated The Bar was created for off-topic posts but there is nothing to keep anyone from posting whatever on this forum.
As for all of the off-topic posts, you must be viewing a forum that I don't see.

And as for posts, why don't you start one about arranger subject matter?

And... one more time... I will be the devil's advocate and say that I totally disagree with you. I understand why people (some people) want a forum to be only on-topic. And there is the other position, which I favor. And that is... with a forum that is lackluster with moving the page, you are far better off to have more general posts. You need MORE posts, MORE posts, MORE posts for a dynamic forum. I wish Nigel would can The Bar. I do my part posting over there trying to help it. Do you?

And I've gone on record that I think The Bar will die a slow death. It's dying. Good, for as I'm concerned.

Just another opinion, my man. Peace, over and out.

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Scottyee
Member posted 04-26-2005 05:34 PM
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Come on Donny, I love ya, and hate to say this, but you're starting to sound like a sour grape! I agree with SemiLive. Yes, the BAR was specifically setup by Nigel for OT posts, but Nigel himself stated, from the onset, that some OT posting here on the General Forum is permissible and even encouraged. The reason the Bar was initiated was because the OT postings here got so WAY off base. I honestly don't think we're back to the 'same thing' again at all here, as the vast majority of posting on this General Arranger forum are now all directly related to 'music' and 'music-making'.
Interestingly enough Donny, the ONLY 'recent OT thread posted here' of late: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010585.html actually includes a posting reply from you yourself.

As far as people leaving the forum, I don't think it's any different than its always been. People come & go, depending on other personal commitments & obligations but usually always RETURN to this great forum, as soon as their schedule permits. There may be a slight change in 'specific' member participation, but I believe the interest in arranger keyboards & music making discussion here remains HIGH among our membership.

I'm (personally) very excited about my new found discovery of making music (jam) LIVE (and even record the music performances) with fellow SZ members who live anywhere around the globe, and believe this further brings SZ members closer. In fact, in addition to having enjoyed the live global jam sessions I've had with several SZ members, I'm currently working with SZ member RichUK (Rich Child) on a live recording 'duo song' effort. This constitutes an across the Atlantic ocean + US continent LIVE recording effort. Pretty Exciting I think. We'll keep everyone posted on developments of course.

In addition, with Skype, you're even able to conference call with several people at the SAME time, so a LIVE around the world 'group jam/recording session is theorically possible. WOW!

Donny, I hope this encourages you (and others here) to consider taking part in a similar LIVE INTERNET music-making project with fellow SZ members as well.

Donny: One favor PLEASE: I hope you don't decide to DELETE this thread topic now, especially after all the WORK, EFFORT, and TIME, I put into posting my reply.

Let's all 'have fun' making music. Afterall this is what it's all about, right?

Scott

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Dnj
Member posted 04-26-2005 06:03 PM
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Well I'm surprised to hear these opinions....
and in leuw of that & many other things that have made this great forum a mere shell of the what it as the past few years. Funny how no one sees this.
I acually will not be posting here anymore myself...I enjoyed it while it lasted and wish everyone good luck.
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kbrkr
Member posted 04-26-2005 06:07 PM
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I agree with Donny. Everyone bitched and moaned about the BAR, and now we have OT's in the arranger section. Then Donnie voices his opinion and we have guys like SemiLive that totally dis-respect him?
This place has gone to the dogs and I myself am very put off by the "element" that has creeped into this board.

Where has all the dignified class gone?


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kbrkr
Member posted 04-26-2005 06:10 PM
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And one more thing....I was very "Against" the BAR in the first place since it now spread everyone's attention from the main General Arranger forum.
This "BAR" idea was recommended by "SYNTH_GUY" and he hasn't posted on this board in a very long time. Meanwhile, guys like Donnie have been here for years and are totally disrespected.

What a joke.

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George Kaye
Member posted 04-26-2005 06:12 PM
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I'm still here!................I've been around since the beginning and I still enjoy coming over and reading the posts several times a day.
I hate to see anyone leave here, especially us old timers. I don't know what I would do without my fix of the synthzone arranger discussion forum.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
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tony mads usa
Member posted 04-26-2005 06:39 PM
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??? ??? ???
I was just scrolling down the page wondering just what topics Donny was upset about?!?!?

t.

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Scottyee
Member posted 04-26-2005 06:45 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by kbrkr:
Where has all the dignified class gone?

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I'm STILL here aren't I?.

5-1/2 years here and still going strong. Seriously though, though a few of the old guard may have left (temporarily?) I still think the SZ arranger forum remains the BEST place on the web to FREELY discuss & express our diverse opinions about all brands of arranger keyboards & music without fear of manufacterers (or others) censoring our posts. This (to me) is what sets the Synthzone General Arranger forum apart from all the other arranger kb forums.

It is WE the members who are ultimately responsible for 'setting the tone' & direction of our forum. I have to agree with SemiLiveMusic, that if you don't like the current posting topics then you at least need to attempt to initate posting thread topics which are of specific interest to YOU. Only then if there is no response or interest in your topic should you then consider leaving.

As far as the BAR forum is concerned, I don't have an opinion for or against it (though I admit I rarely post there). I believe it was the SUDDEN escalation of TOTALLY inappropriate 'OFF TOPIC' posts (from religion to politics & morality) that lead to Nigel creating the BAR in the first place.

kbrdr & Donny: as longtime buddies of both of you, I'm sorry to hear of your disappointment with our forum of late, and though I agree that we may be experiencing a dip and/or shift in member participation, I definitely DON'T think the forum is dying. As far as the bad 'element' that you say has creep onto the board lately, I think this really is no different than we've experienced all along. There will always be (on any forum) a bad seed or two , and they all do eventually leave. But then again, I guess I haven't left yet. Donny & kbrkr: hope you'll seriously reconsider staying around for a while. - Scott

PS: I think the real reason Donny's unhappy is that he misses Uncle Dave.

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GlennT
Member posted 04-26-2005 07:20 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Scottyee:
I think the real reason Donny's unhappy is that he misses Uncle Dave
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We all do... whether we want to admit it or not.


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Vquestor
Member posted 04-26-2005 07:28 PM
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Cheer up Don,
Here is that picture of Angelina on keyboards
that I was unable to post a few weeks ago.
because I couldn't find the URL, until today. http://celebrity-tgp.com/116a/07.jpg
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chony
Member posted 04-26-2005 07:54 PM
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Donny, with 4950 posts you're gonna quit!?!? At least make it to 5000!!!
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Sheriff
Member posted 04-26-2005 08:55 PM
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I'm new here in the SynthZone!
At first I was a little bit overwhelmed with the mass of different topics which SynthZone offers. After a few days I noticed that it's a great system because it's well ordered and you can watch on a special side what is new.
I'm here since about three month but I've given and got so much help. I found some new friends and I hope I'll become some more. We are like a big family - we are 'The Zoners'!!!

The Arranger Forums are good places to talk about synth/tech related things. Some of it are very special (like the discussion boards for Korg, Roland, Kurzweil, etc.) and some are more generally.
Especially the bar is a place that I love because there we have the posibility to talk about all the things we want to. Hey, we are musicians, aren't we? I'm not only interested in my instruments but also in life, history, philosophy and scientifics. All those thoughts and feelings are affecting my compositions and also my playing. So I'm interested in your experiences, opinions and thoughts - be it of working or be it of relaxing.

It's a pity that you or someone else want to leave this forum but it's your own decision. I can't prevent you from this but I would be glad if you would stay here a little longer. Do it for your old friends and maybe for your new friends too...

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

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Nigel
Administrator posted 04-26-2005 09:11 PM
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I am not about to change anything. If you guys can't get along there's nothing I can do to change that. I have given you all a separate forum to put OT postings but I'm not about to be forced to play censor. If the posting is OT but not offensive then I'm not willing to be involved. You guys are old enough to decide for yourselves. Don't put it on me, it's not up to me to have make the decision. If you feel you can't post here anymore well I am sorry to see you go but that is entirely your own decision. I can't please you all and I am not even about to try to.

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renig
Member posted 04-26-2005 09:51 PM
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I'm not going anywhere, either. There's just too much darn good info from so many good knowledgeable people on this board - yourself included dnj. I just wish I had half the savvy you have on arranger subjects. Please don't go letting the team down, now.
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Scottyee
Member posted 04-26-2005 10:26 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Nigel:
I can't please you all and I am not even about to try to.
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Nigel, well put. - Scott

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to the genesys
Member posted 04-26-2005 10:40 PM
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I must be viewing another forum because as of this writing most if not all of the most recent threads are about arrangers and or music making. Unless the G-70, PSR 2000/3000, Tyros, software instruments, communicating with other synthzone members on an internet phone and keyboard techniques do not fall in to that category.
P.S I did not find SemiLive's comments to be disrespectful in any way.


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Nigel
Administrator posted 04-26-2005 10:46 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Scottyee:
Nigel, well put. - Scott
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Thanks Scott, I'm just glad there are people here that understand that taking a passive role is the best path to take. Being dominating and acting out the role of censor would upset many many more people and is not at all the in the spirit of this forum. No-one really wants to see me become the forum dictator. I'm sure most of you would not still keep coming back if that was the case. This forum is the best online because it is user moderated and not under the thumb of the management. I will always do whatever I need to keep things civil here but I never want play censor. I'll close the whole thing down before that ever happens.


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Nigel
Administrator posted 04-26-2005 11:12 PM
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And Donnie when I look at the recent posts on this forum I don't even understand what the OT postings are you are complaining about. What are you really complaining about anyway ?????

Heehee, a thrill a minute. Except it would be better if you'd posted the above in my thread entitled "What happened to the thread?" Or maybe you didn't see it? I posted it way before this one. Whatever.

I had an arranger question but I semi-solved it. Well, kinda.

SemiLiveMusic: My apology for not simply adding my reprint of DNJ's original thread to yours, but I suppose I just wanted to take full responsibility of insuring it not be deleted.

Ok, back to music. Arranger question? Semi-solved? You got me curious now. - Scott

Uuuh Scott, if the person who starts a thread is given the ability to delete it, then it is his or her right to do that.

I for one think that Dnj has been one of the greatest contributors to this forum (up there with you), and I don't understand why you guys are falling out with each other.

With all respect to you, maybe you should delete this thread as well!

Yes the topic starter has the right or the ability to delete his own topic. Unfortunality this will also delete all the valuable answers of other SZ members. I absolutely agree with Scottyee in that point.

I spended so much time with reading this thread, understanding the different opinions (in my special case I had to translate it into german at first) and building some well formatted sentences including my own opinions.
And then, with one click, it's all gone. This makes me feeling like I'm wasting my time...and that makes me sad...

Thank you, Scottyee, for saving the thread!!!

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

Boy, I turn my back for one second and "badabing", the whole Forum's in-fighting!

I'm a long time member of this Forum, so here's my two cents. I refuse to take any sides here, but I don't see any problem with posting OT stuff on The Bar (or even one or two on the Arranger Forum), even if I never really post to The Bar. All I know is I've learned so much on this Forum. Guys, (and gals!), please don't "fracture the egg"! Even though I don't post much anymore, I still pop in every couple of days to see how all my Forum buddies are, and what is being brought "to the table" on the arranger keyboard front.

I'll take this opportunity to thank Uncle Dave, Donny, Scottyee, TonyMads, Gary, George Kaye, DonM, Nigel, and others that I haven't even mentioned, for all I've learned about arranger keyboards on this Forum. Let's not ruin a great thing here.

Now, PLAY NICE!!!


Angelo

[This message has been edited by cam8neel (edited 04-27-2005).]

I had a long talk with Scott last nite via Shype and I said to him that I don't know
enough about K/B or Arrangers to post, I mainly learn by what everyone else post on the forum and I have learnd a lot thanks to all of you....I am teaching myself to play and it's not easy for me at my age so what I do is go through the posts and read only what appeals to me...I have that option, to read or not to read, if something of interest to me is there I will read it and I will pass on the topics that don't.... the
choice is mine like it is to everyone here..
so why put Nigel in the position of "policeman" ONLY read the topics that
interest you and you won't be disapointed at
any of the topics thereby eliminating the problem with OT Posts and agrevating yourselves in the proccess....I enjoy everyone here and I wish I had the expertise and knowelge so I could contrubite more to this great forum...just my 2cents worth...
Nigel, I think that you do a great job...thank you....
Tony Rome

BTW, I think thatwe should all go over to the bar sit down and have a drink together and all be friends again....man, life is just to damn short

[This message has been edited by Tony Rome (edited 04-27-2005).]

I can't speak for others here, but my friendship with DNJ (Donny) hasn't changed. I still love him as much as before, but on this ONE issue (deleting established threads with posting replies), I suppose we just DISAGREE! Though I too have initiated posts which I might have later prefered to delete, I never have or ever will do this, as once a posting reply is made, it becomes (in my view) an act of CENSORSHIP. Ok, I extend an olive branch in peace to all. Donny, hope you re-consider & decide to stay. Have a drink! Here's a toast to many more years of Synthzone forum success to all.

Scott

I think I was the last post to go in as I gave a message for Grampa Doug to wish him and his wife well. This was before I clicked on the Url http://celebrity-tgp.com/116a/07.jpg thinking it was a picture of Angelina on keyboards. I was quite shocked and absolutly disgusted to think no one gave a thought to us ladies.
I am glad that the thread was deleted.


Keyboardcapers

[This message has been edited by Keyboardcapers (edited 04-27-2005).]

the framework of this site has been going strong for a long time,THIS discussion site covers ALL keyboards and players from proffessionals to the newbies,with a total mix of personalities,now and again someone will jump in and throw a spanner in the works,but come on we all know the score,if we over react we are gonna get it chucked back at us,and that makes the situation worse,over time we have got to know a lot of people on this site,and we get to respect views,but we also recognise others who are out to cause trouble,don,t take things so serious,this is our site and WE decide where its going,mike