Dennis,

I will be glad to clarify the situation. The G1000 has "one-touch memory", which is unusable. This is a single button which only works for the built-in styles. Pressing it has an effect of setting a fixed right hand lead voice. I am not sure what other parameters it sets or clears, but with its sound selections not being programmable I had never used it (I tried 8 years ago, when I first got my G1000, but quickly gave up).

The G70 has 4 buttons which recall user-programmable sounds for all the solo parts, right and left. This works for all the preset and custom styles, so to me this is a great improvement in being able to quickly select sounds for a currently playing style.
Roland documents which parameters are supposed to be memorized and recalled by this OTS function. Unfortunately, while recalling these parameters, it also forces the arranger chord recognition to Intelligent (that's Single finger in plain language) setting. That is where my problem is.

I contend that in proper operation this function should allow you to memorize the user-desired setting for the Arranger chord recognition, or better yet, it should stick to memorizing the documented parameters, but when invoked, only recall those parameters, and no others. In either case, the OTS memory should only recall what it has memorized, no more and no less.

I don't know if you use the OTS on your Tyros, but higher-end Yamaha keyboards have had this for years. I was certainly looking forward to using this facility on the G70, but with the keyboard unexplicably changing the chord recognition type each time I press an OTS button, I can not use it.

I don't care whether it is called a bug, a design flaw, "product anomaly" or any other name, but this operation in its present form makes no sense whatsoever. I hope that Roland addresses it soon.

Regards,
Alex

QUOTE/ I don't care whether it is called a bug, a design flaw, "product anomaly" or any other name, but this operation in its present form makes no sense whatsoever. I hope that Roland addresses it soon. UNQUOTE/

Finally, Alex, we are on the same page.........

BTW, did you ever use the Chord Sequencer much on your G1000? If so, would you care to add a request for the return of that 'feature' to the Roland line-up in your correspondence? This, more than any other problem with the G70, is my #1 peeve with it....... How the hell are you supposed to be able to use the bender if your left hand ALWAYS has to play the changes.....?????

Hi Alex,

I would like to comments on this. However, first I would like to say that I understand, why you are frustrated and upset, beacuse you can't use the instrument in the way you had anticipated. I think that everyone understands this - including Diki and myself. And I want to say two thing about is:

1. The "New functionality forum board" on the G-70 user club website is dedicated to address such wishes for new functionality. If you in that forum board state, why you need this feature, then you can be sure that Roland will get the information. I hope - for you and others, who suffer from this - that your arguments are so significant that Roland sees no choice but to implement the feature.

2. Nothing can change the fact that Roland has not promised us that we could save the Keyboard mode in the OTS registrations. The manual says nothing about this! Therefore we can't really blame Roland for it... my neighbour just bought a new car. It has 6 gears. I went for a test drive earlier today. It a really nice car Let's say that I went out tomorrow to buy myself a new car too and I realized - after taking it home - that it only had five gears - would that be a "bug"? Well, that would depend on what the car salesman have told me, wouldn't it? My point is that you and the rest of us were not promised that the G-70 would have 6 gears.... I mean....!?! follow me?

Now, this lead me to my comment: During the dialogue about this issue you have several times called the issue a bug, and you seem to have insisted on that - until in your latest post, where you surprisingly write "I don't care whether it is called a bug, a design flaw, "product anomaly" or any other name". Now that is surprising to me (especially taken into consideration that you work with computer software), beacuse to me it is of essential importance, what we call the observations. It is only a bug, if you discover something that run counter to the manual! I work myself as a manager in one of the worlds largest software companies. My employees respond to incidents from the end users every day! The first thing our 1st level service desk personel determines, when a new incident is received is, whether the incident in question runs counter to the manual of the product that they support. Only if they can answer "yes" to that question they can register the incident as a bug! So this is of significant importance! A bug can cost the company thousands or even millions of dollars! In the case of Roland the situation is of no difference. If a severe bug is found, then Roland needs to fix it. And thats can be pretty expensive! Just look at the OS2.01 for the Roland G-70 - it's a perfect example... That OS update came out only because the G-70 user club members found a really severe bug (all LED turned out while playing midi files) after the release of OS2 to G-70. After we told Roland that this bug existed, Roland quickly fixed the bug and released the OS2.01, which had to be sent out to every Roland customer and every Roland dealer in the world.... think about that! Can you see the dollar signs? So my point is that bugs (especially severe bugs) are something you dislike, when you are in the business of producing e.g. electronic instruments like the G-70

A consequence of this is: when we in the G-70 user club community observe something that looks strange, we always call it "an observation", and after that we thorougly examine, whether they observation is a bug, a design flaw or whatever. We typically have a dialogue with Roland before categorizing the observation to be sure. On the G-70 user club website we have a database containing bugs in the G-70 found by the user club members. So you see - I certainly do care, whether you find a bug or not!

Good luck with your G-70!

/Søren

[This message has been edited by weissefar (edited 08-05-2006).]

Soren,

The manual does not explicitly state that other parameters are not set, there you are correct. However, in the beginning of the manual section for the OTSes (on page 78) it says:
One Touch memories are actually "miniature User Programs" that go way beyond anything you may know from other arranger instruments

Whenever I hear the word "memory" to me it is indicative that it will recall exactly the information that was stored into it. If computer memory had functioned any different, I am sure you would consider it a bug.

Would you expect anything different?

I work for one of the largest industrial control companies in the world, and our software controls billions of $$$ in industrial production worldwide. I share your reluctance to classify things as "bugs" vs. "enhancements". However, in my world when something, even not specifically mentioned in the documentation, works in a completely illogical way, we do call it "a bug".

However, my goal is not to hurt anyone's feelings, and if you feel that calling it "an enhancement" will be more productive in getting this issue resolved, I am going along with your advice.

Do you think that my posts in the Danish forum are sufficiently clear, or should I make a new thread there?

Best regards,
Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex K (edited 08-05-2006).]

Wow

If I understand you correctly, Roland has made no promise to save Keyboard mode in OTS.
Yet when you use OTS you are automatically changed to the Intelligent mode. Sounds to me as if Roland saved Keyboard mode to "Intelligent" and didn't tell anyone that they programmed it that way. Now if someone can't blame Roland for that...then who?

"Intelligent Mode is the default setting for the OTS, And you cannot save Keyboard Mode settings on OTS."

If the manual had said something as simple as that maybe Alex would have made a different choice of keyboard..??

It just seems odd to me that an option such as OTS that clearly states in the manual (as others have pointed out) that it DOES NOT save keyboard mode, would override the global keyboard setting when using OTS which is not supposed to have any saved keyboard mode in its memory. again

OH WELL...

Guess I will go back to my Tyros 2 and deal with the things that it doesn't do that I wished it did...


Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

Hi Sören,
How much will it cost Roland if their product
has bad functions, nothing?
Greetings
Peter

Well guys,

Roland has always fed their customers with a tea-spoon. They built the board by what they think it should be able to do, not by what the consumers ask for. I have owned G800,1000
and now I have the VA76 that I want to sell and go with the T2. I am finally fed up with waiting for roland to make something that suits my needs. On top of that, even if I wanted to try a G70 I would have to drive a few hundred miles cause it's not available anywhere ( like Guitar center ...).
I was hopping that they would make a sampler available in the G70, but again they think it is not required. Sooooo, thanks Yamaha for making my decision easier!As for the Roland SRX expansion, a used $300 XP30 is a much better choice. But than again for the music that I play, the SRX boards a pretty useless.

Alex I agree with you 100%. There is no excuse for the BUG,FLAW or whatever you wanna call it.
But again they will fix it in their next $4000 keyboard. And that is what I mean by "tea-spoon feeding".

BUT........... at this point in the manual, it gives a specific list of what the OTS section DOES memorize. At which point, you go 'Ah-Ha! So it doesn't remember EVERYTHING...... I wonder what else it doesn't remember?'

You then go the our G70 site, type in 'OTS' to the search engine, and reel back from the accumulated knowledge....!

In the meantime, while you software guys are splitting hairs, back at the G70 Forum I've posted a nice explanation of how to work around this issue, with several significant advantages over even the way you would like it to work....... (in between gigging my G70 6 times this week!)

So, perhaps, can we put this issue to rest, and concentrate on the more important issue of pressuring Roland to provide the E80 OTS fix for the G70? While Roland can absolve themselves of the 'bug' description of the problem, this doesn't remove their obligation to provide the fix, as (after all) they HAVE provided fixes for other, FAR less important problems that didn't qualify as 'bugs'

Peace, out..........

Diki wrote:



Reading this and other threads would leed one to think that we would love it, if Roland listened even more to what we users say... BUT BUT BUT. There is one thing that some of us miss completely: The silent majority of G-70 users (mr. and mrs. amateur home hobbyist) might not share our points of view! It is common knowledge that if you change the characteristics of an exisitng product, then you among other things implicitly:

1. admit to your customers and your competitors that you were wrong, when you designed your product
2. risk that existing customers will be angry that you have changed the product.

Lets look at the last bullet: If Roland exchanges the OTS concept in the G-70 with the OTS concept of the E-80, then you can be VERY sure that Roland support hotlines will glow red. I have persoanlly seen graphs showing what immense amounts of dollars it costs in support expenses to change a product AFTER it has been released - you wouldn't believe it! If a manufacturer modifies existing functionality then thousands of users immiediatly go abe shit, because they think there instrument is broken, as it suddenly behaves otherwise than it used to do. Of course the fine people of SZ would be able to manage such updates/upgrades, because we help eachother here in cyberspace, but the vast majority of users would not - and thats why I say that a manufacturer should be even VERY cautious when it comes to modifying existing products!

Lets say you asked EVERY single G-70 owner in the world, whether they need this function that Alex miss, then it might be only a tiny percentage of the users, who would actually say that they need it... The opinions from users here at SZ and the G-70 user club website for that sake is NOT representative for the overall G-70 user!

However - when this is said - as administrator of the G-70 User Club, I promise you Alex to explicitly mention to Roland that you (and others) suffer from the lack of this function. I will write Roland an email today. The G-70 user club administration has good back channels to Roland, so the email will for sure go to the right people at Roland. Thats the best we can do at this point - and then we have to wait and hope that there will come another update. In the meantime you have to use the user programs to save your settings. Like Diki mentions elsewhere there are good reason why to use user programs in stead. Like mentioned elsewhere I also hope that you enjoy the hundreds of new features in the G-70 (compared to the G-1000).

Kindly remember - everyone - that Roland has provided us with numerous updates (even an upgrade) since the Roland G-70 was initially released! Never before in history has Roland listened so much to what the customers say! Roland has fixed SEVERAL bugs put forward by the user club community and they have also implemented new features suggested by the user club community. Roland should definitely have credit for doing so!

I know for a fact that Roland listen to what the User Club community say... and who knows?! Roland might right now be exploring how to step up to the plate?!

Have a nice day everyone

/Søren

[This message has been edited by weissefar (edited 08-06-2006).]

Dear hitman, tell me, what time period do you live in?! I am shocked that people are blaming Roland for tea-spoon feeding the G-70 users!? We just can't take such statements serious, sorry dude...

I am not saying so to offend you, but please notice how many updates/updgrades have been released to the G-70!!! And look at how kindly Roland reflects to all the bug reports and suggestions for new functionality to the G-70!!! How can you say such a thing?!? If you look at how kindly Roland cooperates with the User Club community, then your statement can only be interpreted as an overt provocation

I have owned almost every single Roland arranger keyboard, so I know that Roland support sucked in the past, but you shouldn't use that to blame Roland for not supporting the G-70 users!!!

/Søren

[This message has been edited by weissefar (edited 08-06-2006).]

[This message has been edited by weissefar (edited 08-06-2006).]