I have returned two keyboards ,and I'll bet that the next purchaser never knew that they were not factory sealed. I repacked it all just like new, even putting the manual back in the plastic sleeve and neatly winding up the power cord. But the clerk never even opened the box to check it out, I could have been returning a box full of anything! Without a return policy I would not consider buying new, because the financial risk is too great. So I really value the in-home trial and I do not abuse it, but I am sure that abuse is all too common.

I have returned two keyboards ,and I'll bet that the next purchaser never knew that they were not factory sealed. I repacked it all just like new, even putting the manual back in the plastic sleeve and neatly winding up the power cord. But the clerk never even opened the box to check it out, I could have been returning a box full of anything! Without a return policy I would not consider buying new, because the financial risk is too great. So I really value the in-home trial and I do not abuse it, but I am sure that abuse is all too common.

Beaky - you are absolutely right! Merchants, especially tose who are "forced" to resell merchandise as new, should check and double-check the merchandise before they accept it. It would not be unreasonable for any merchant to expect that returned merchandise be in new and/or saleable condition.

Whether it's perfect or not .... a returned item should never be sold as "new" under any circumstances. I agree that returns are sometimes, a necessity, but the item needs to be sold as a demo, used, or returned to the factory.

Regardless of the behavior of some customers (who AREN'T always right) it is the responsibility of the retailer to disclose the history of an item sold as "new." There is no gray area here .... it's either fresh and new, or it's not.

I don't mind getting a deal on a return sometimes, but it has to be perfect. An opened box doesn't worry me as long as the warrantee is the same.

Mail order shopping has pretty much made returns a common thing, but there needs to be some guidelines. A restocking fee is fair, and if the unit returned is not in 100% original condition, then a return should be refused, or pro-rated.
Simple as that.

A return is a service, and IF offered, needs to be treated as such. Service costs, and in the end - the consumer always pays for it anyway. If not now, then later when the prices are driven up because of lost profit.

I personally LOVE trade deals, and I take advantage of return policies when I need to, but you will never see an item that I owned look any different from a factory fresh one. It's a matter of respect for the retailer, and the next customer.

"On line" commerce is taking the human element out of shopping, and this leads to a diminishing amount of respect for the merchant. Shoppers tend to see price only, and keep clicking till they get what they want. I love the interaction of a sales deal. I love the barter system and I love the way a deal unfolds .... from the greeting to the questions, the qualifying, the selection .......it's all a communicative process that creates a relationship between shopper and merchant. If all you do is buy from a book, you loose this valuable bond with your sales associate, and that can mean a lonely transition in getting to know and operate your new "whatever."
We all need help, sometimes.

Sales personal have gotten a bad rep because of the behavior of SOME bad apples, but in truth, the sales professional is an important asset to our community. Consumer education has grown rapidly, but there will always be a need for knowledgeable, trained personnel to assist buyers in making certain decisions.

Hats off to the professional sales team!
Alabama says:
They work a 40 hour week for a living, just to send it on down the line .......
40 hours is like a vacation to many sales pros!

If you have never done business with some of our merchant members like George Kaye or Dan Oneil ..... you're missing out on 2 of the most knowledgeable guys in the biz. These guys treat the sales business with the respect it deserves.
Give them a click before you run to the next super sale on line! Let's keep some of the business in the family!

I was at a GC yesterday and wanted to try a TC Helicon harmonizer. They did not have one set up, and I did not have time for them to do it, so I said I'd come back to try it another time. At that point, the sales clerk suggested that I buy it and return within 30 days if I did not like it. I politely declined, knowing that I would not have the time to give this unit a proper workout. However, this illustrates the fact that the customers can not be blamed for taking advantage of the return policy.

I think the returns are OK, as long as the customer makes the initual purchase with the intent to keep the item (that is something that only the customer can judge, and that is the criteria I use to satisfy my own conscience and to explain it to my kids).

It should be the responsibility of the store to make sure that everything is returned in as-new condition, and all the parts and packing materials are included. If they don't exercise due diligence, they have only themselves to blame. I must say that the GC in Phoenix, which I have been dealing with for the last several years is very meticulous in making sure that all of the manuals, packing materials, and the like are returned. I think that these returned items could be sold at a slight discount (e.g. 5%) which I for one would be happy to get as long as everything is in the box.

I believe that if the GCs and the other big stores eliminate their return policies, their sales will suffer and hurt their bottom line even more than returned equipment. The ones really hurt will be the mail-order houses.

Regards,
Alex

I will echo what some others have said here already. I would return a piece of equipment if it is either defective or absolutely does not do "what it says on the tin". Short of that, I wouldn't even consider it, at least not without the expectance of a restocking fee arrangement. I think that's only fair to the merchant. I think it's wrong to "play the system" by deliberately buying a piece of equipment that one has every intention of returning, particularly when I myself know of stories of people who use the equipment for a gig or two as a "free rental". If the product isn't satisfactory.. fine.. I have no problem with it. I'd also buy an open box item provided it came with a ful warranty, but I would expect at least a token discount on it. I'm guessing so would many other customers. I can't blame the retailers for wanting to cut back on the return policies.

I did return my original faulty PSR2000, but only after many weeks that turned into months of unsuccesfully attempting to get it repaired by the Yamaha service center that my local store used. ( Alto Music in Middletown NY ) The store manager completely agreed with me and acknowledged that the board was faulty. They took it back at full refund and I bought my original Motif from them the very same day. They were very helpful through the whole thing, and as a result, I am their customer for life. I have bought several pieces of equipment from them since. All without a hitch, and always at a competitive and in most cases the best available price anywhere in the good ol' US, without having to haggle. Best of all, echoing what Dave said, I get to interact with a real person, often one who shares the same passion as I do about music.

AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-29-2003).]

Spoken like a true "Ex"- Retailer. The customer IS always right UD. He may not be somebody you like, he may be telling you a pack of lies, and "she" may even be your Ex- Mother in Law, but regardless; the Key to "sucessful" retailing is the 'mindset' of - 'the customer is always right' way of thinking and integrating that philosophy into a business. If you treat your customers with respect, kindness, generosity and in an exemplary manner, it can only do your business good. Not only in the short term but the long term as well. If you neglect that "mindset" you will not be doing your customers a favor (Duh!) - "Who does this person think he is treating me this way!?!?! This will be the last time I buy ANYTHING from this Company!"). But also there is a history lesson to be learned if you don't. The long string of businesses over the years that have taken a 'steep' drop in sales and many, many, many that have gone belly up for the same reason. The customer is King and if you don't think so you're in for a rude awakening in your Businesses bottom line. Which is being successful and prospering financially. It looks like you already have had a rude awakening UD. Of course there are many other jobs out there that don't require sucking up to the public. Uh, let me think here.... I know there's got to be at least a few.. Mmm, let's see, well; there's always flipping burgers I recko.... No, I guess that doesn't qualify either.

Best regards,
Mike

Hmm...I wonder if a place like guitar center have a couple units that say, they purposely made available just for the consumer to try out, meaning- like you buy it just you would (in this case- we'll call it a deposit), then if you don't like it within 14 days you can return it. So say for about 25-50 keyboards they have, there will be two that they'll 'sacrifice' and then they can just actually sell those keyboard as a 'demo'.

I'm just trying to get myself included in this discussion

Sorry Mike,
You're wrong here. There are many times when a customer is wrong. Times when they are trying to take advantage of you. Times when they are lying to you etc....
That "old" adage was for a time when retailers were the only ones who knew what things cost. Today's consumer is more educated, and sometimes less informed at the same time.

For the record - I'm out of retail by choice. The hours are conflicting with my family and performance schedule, otherwise - I'd still be selling my butt off.

Rude awakening? I don't think so. I'm very aware of the business of people-pleasing, and I have a history of devoted customers that STILL come to me for advice and deals on new gear. I just sold 4 keyboards out of my house this month alone, and I didn't solicit any of the deals.

Being honest and knowledgeable is much better than "sucking up" - and in the long run, you will hold the respect and future business of your customers if you behave that way.

You can't preach selling to me. I wrote the book.

I have bought pieces from both Sam Ash and GC here in the Cleveland area and have returned items making sure I packed everything in the original packaging etc....I have run into a recent situation where I wanted to purchase a Fantom S workstation only to find out I can't get one in a box that already has not been used (and looks it)when I found one the clerk could not find all of the manuals/software etc..... It scares me to have to spend $1500.00 dollars for a piece of equipment that looks like it has not only been open and used but is scratched etc....I know that there is a warranty but for that kind of money I expect the store to inspect and make sure the equipment is new and has not been abused by the previous owner. My other frustration is that when you want to demo a piece the sales people don't know the equipment. I offten know more about the item than the sales people, what ever happened to training and research on the part of the store....I have bought and returned pieces of eqipment over the years but I always returned it in it's original cartom packed all of the manuals and software if included and I also always wiped it off so the next person who purchased the piece got something that although was used very little looked new.....Why can't the store to the same, if nothing else it builds confidence in the eyes of the consumer......I have bought items from Musicians friend but I still prefer to go look it over and bring it home rather than wait a week for UPS to drop it off. Just recently I bought a EMU PK6 synth from Musicians friend and the UPS driver left it on my porch, in plain view of anyone who walked past my house, we did'nt know it was there untill 9:00pm when I took my dog for a walk and just happened to look on the porch for the daily paper.....Nice eh!

[This message has been edited by mdolmon (edited 11-30-2003).]