Can you ever be happy with a song you wrote and recorded? I keep listening to the songs I’ve done for my first CD. I re-recorded one I wasn’t that happy with and I must say it’s better for it. Now I’m looking at another song and want to make changes to that. Can you ever finish? Or do you have to throw your hands up in the air and say, “That’s it, its done!” Or should I keep scrutinizing it until I can no longer find anything I want to change. And all the time I’m tweaking and fixing I could be making another 10 songs… Just wondering if you folks have had the same problem…

Thanks,
DJ


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I don't steer the ship, I bail out the water.
DJ http://www.chipos.com/beachbum/

[This message has been edited by beachbum (edited 06-27-2003).]

There does come a point in time when you know a song is done, call it a feeling you get if you will. To over scrutinize a song after that point could lead to seriously overproducing the song or changing it so much from its original idea that it loses the magic it once had.

When I record or produce a song I get it to the point where I feel it is done and then try not to look back, at least not too much. The reasoning for that is we can always find flaws in our work but flaws are OK. Music isn't meant to be perfect and while we should strive to make our music the best we can, perfection isn't necessarily something we should achieve. Steely Dan is a good example of this attempt at achieving perfection. Donald Fagen is a stickler for perfection and if you listen to many of the newer Steely Dan albums you'll notice they are extremely sterile sounding. A fine example of great players, a great recording, and yet the end result has something missing because it is so perfect.

You make a good point. I think you are right about the danger of over analyzing musical structure. I have always been a big fan of Donald Fagen and Steely Dan but the recent recordings just haven't grabbed me in the same way as "Hey Nineteen" , "Aja" and many others I could name. It's not that I dislike the recent material but I just don't find the songs nearly as memorable as the older recordings.

Dj, going along with my "what makes a good tune" thread. I do not believe there is perfection in music. I'll tell you what I do on all my cds as I go along.

I record my work and as I think they are finished I mix them done then every morning for as long as the cd takes I relisten through headphones while I surf and post (as I'm doing now)and so by the time a cd is done, I've listened to the tunes bo less than 40/50 times each

I listen for very obvious things wrong notes bad progression, mix etc. I especially listen for an ovrall feeling for the tune. Did it say what I wanted it to say and is it pleasant to listen to for ME.

I will tell you this about getting bogged down in "perfection." As we all do I have several musician friends that got started on recording their work when I did. A few years later, literally they are still working on their first cd and literally the first cut or two.

That's ok, but is not my agenda, I have chosen instead to adopt the learn as I go from cut to cut cd to cd. When I listen to the first 10 cd's as opposed to the last 10 there is quite a difference all around in every respect, composition, engineering overall quality of product. I am very happy with where my work is, but hope to get better with the next cut's and cd's. As we have seen here as of late if you are going to try to compose for everyone else, you'll never get a body of work created, because everyone else has their own ideas of what good music is.

In oposition to what some may think here about the quantity of my work, I take each cut very seriously and do what I consider to be my best work and effort at a given moment in time. Whether that work is commercially viable or not does not enter into my equation at all, I really could not care less if it is or isn't. I spent allot of years chasing after the financial end of music, now it does not interest me at all and is not what I am trying to accomplish. And the saleability of a tune in NO way adds credibility to that tune from an artistic point of view. $ does not = good music.

If everyone said my work is crap or incomplete or whatever, it does not necessarily follow that it therefore must be crap because everyone says so.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 06-28-2003).]

Well, on this one I'm gonna' dissagree with the masses. I look at recordings the same way I look at all the other things I've done over the past 60 plus years. THERE'S ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT!

A classic example of this was cited by Cole Porter when he said "When you think you no longer need to practice, you should probably get out of the business. I'm a firm believer that a person should practice every day of the week, even on the days when they're performing. Then, when you think you've had enough practice, it's time to practice again."

Granted, there comes a time when we all believe that we can no longer make a song better, but in reality, that's never been the case. I've heard lots of remakes of great songs, some that really were lousy, but some that totally transformed the song and brought out attributes that no one knew previously existed. A good example of this was Nat King Cole's "Unforgetable" which was remastered and done as a duo with his daughter years after his death. What an incredible creation.

DJ, while there is likely no such thing as the perfect song, never stop trying to achieve that goal. Mediocrity is just not an option, no matter what task you're trying to master.

Keep up the good work,

Gary

Gary, I don't think we're in disagreement at all. I think what we are talking about though is when does one say, ok, I have to walk away from this recording and make a cd out of it. That decision has to come at some point otherwise, everything just stays on the recorder and never comes to fruition. We then hope the next song (through practice) gets better.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 06-28-2003).]

Gary,

The problem with the above statement is that the original songwriter may not have had the capability of making the song better as each persons abilities are finite and at some point they will consider their song done even if you don't feel that it is. If someone else comes along and produces the song or changes it in a manner in which the songwriter may never have even thought of, it may make it better but it clearly wasn't the original vision of the songwriter. This is why there are songwriters, arrangers, producers, and engineers. Each one can bring something unique to the table and often times each can make a song better. However, its very rare to find a songwriter who can write, arrange, produce, and engineer their own works and have them turn out great.

Really, when it comes down to it, the performance of the song is secondary to the song itself. A good song will stand out with even average performance. We have all heard many examples of this over the years. But if the song material is just average then even a stellar performance won't overcome the real problem.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-02-2003).]