After a delay due to misinformation between my salesman and his Yamaha rep, my 2nd broken S900 ships back tomorrow and my 3rd(and last) S900 arrives (keep your fingers crossed) on Thurs. It's getting to the point of distrust on my part - as you can imagine - that I hesitate to continue to be a loyal Yamaha customer. Even my salesman is surprised that I haven't given up by now. It would be a welcome gesture if Yamaha would do something - anything - to make up for the hassle and the repeated disappointment that the lack of quality control has caused...and it would go a long way in restoring my faith in this huge corporation...just to know they care about this little guy.

Tim

Hi Tim,
so sorry to hear about all the hassles you've had. Sort of takes away all the joy of getting a new keyboard. For us hobbyists it's all about the anticipation & fun of owning a new toy ( or at least for me).
Just doesn't make sense things could have gone so wrong.
Good luck with your new one.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CoasterTim:
[B]

Good luck, Tim. I can only imagine how you must feel. I guess I would've thrown in the towel after the second time. Maybe your determination will pay off this time.

Taike

My retailer didn't make me ship back my defective one until the new one arrived at my home. The first replacement took over 5 weeks during which I got to play and gig with my defective board.

I hope this one was inspected thoroughly. You shouldn't have to be waiting so long after two mess ups.

Beakybird

That is shoddy treatment for such a large company. When I got my E80 it was also defective ( D Beam didn't work ) I called the shop who then got a roland technician to phone me from Roland UK. A new E80 arrived the very next day. I also got a bonus disk of midi files for my inconvenience. You should at least get something from your salesman or yamaha for all the trouble you have been put through Tim.

Tim good luck this time around.

Hi Tim,
Best of luck on your 3rd S900 , I really hope this one is A-OK !
It`s like Rikki said , it really takes all the fun out of getting a new A/KB.

I know , at least in my case , once I finally decide what to get , there will be the anxiety of waiting and hoping that it is perfect and that you don`t have to say , well I guess that`s the best they could do.

My friend , you have been through enough already , it`s far time you got hooked up with a good board , and I hope that is going to happen on Thursday !!

All my hopes man , take care !

Gary

Tim,

Hope everything works out OK with #3. Man, you've really been through Hell with the keyboards. Kinda' makes me glad I decided to stick with my 3000s. They've really held up well.

Good Luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Gary,
I think time will prove that the 3000 was the best all-around arranger for the money Yamaha has ever produced. It's bound to be a classic...especially after seeing the lackluster build quality of its successors. I'm kinda sorry I sold mine.

Tim

Could this be one of the reasons we are starting to see all these quality control issues with Yamaha?

Yamaha Closes Two U.S. Manufacturing Facilities


Action Necessary to Ensure Yamaha's and its Retailers' Competitiveness and Continued Growth

BUENA PARK, Calif. � Yamaha Corporation of America has announced the closing of two U.S. manufacturing facilities and will consolidate its musical instrument manufacturing operations in Asia. The closures are part of a long-term plan to enhance Yamaha's competitive position in an increasingly aggressive global musical products market.

The facilities, Yamaha Music Manufacturing, Inc. (YMM) in Thomaston, Georgia, and Yamaha Musical Products, Inc. (YMP) in Grand Rapids, Michigan, have ceased operations as of March 30 and April 27, 2007, respectively. These factories currently manufacture Yamaha's renowned line of acoustic pianos, professional audio speakers and woodwind, brasswind and percussion musical instruments.

Mr. Yoshihiro Doi, president, Yamaha Corporation of America, made the announcement to all employees and to those directly affected, with sadness and regret.

"We have worked long and hard together here in the U.S. to manufacture the world's finest musical instruments. I am proud of our people and their achievements, and I deeply appreciate their commitment and loyalty to Yamaha," said Doi. "I am equally grateful for the support of the local communities in which these plants have thrived for a combined sixty years of commitment here in the United States."

"We must take this action in light of market realities and new, fierce international competition," he added.

The closings have affected approximately 380 employees in the two locations. The company has provided the employees with a comprehensive separation package.

Yamaha will move its manufacturing operations to existing company-owned overseas facilities but remains committed to marketing and to continuing its traditional high level of service support to its products in the United States. Also, as part of this restructuring, Yamaha Exporting, Inc. (YEI) will be integrated into an exporting department of Yamaha's Operations Division, effective April 1, and the Band & Orchestral Custom Shop and parts will be relocated to Yamaha Corporation of America headquarters in Buena Park, California. YMP and YMM finished goods and warranty services will be relocated to other locations to be disclosed at a later date.

Mr. Doi says the musical products industry, especially in traditional instruments such as pianos, wind and percussion instruments, has become increasingly challenging due to the emergence of new, aggressive global competition, notably from manufacturers based in China. Additionally, many established competitors based in the U.S. have already shifted large portions or, in some cases, their entire production to sources outside the U.S.

The closures, he said, are being made with extreme reluctance, but are necessary to ensure Yamaha's and its retailers' competitiveness and continued growth in the musical products marketplace.

_______________________________________________________________

Near the end of his statement Mr. Doi may have been referring to Mackie Inc. (and others) which have transferred all their manufacturing of products to China. And of course there are many more of U.S. and other companies worldwide that have done likewise. The reason they are doing it as Mr. Doi said is to be able to stay afloat in a very competitive market. But we the consumers are paying the price for all these products being made overseas and in third world countries. China is exploding on the economic front at a phenomenal rate but because it is growing at such a fast and furious pace many loopholes and shortcuts are most likely being taken and something has to give. One of the things that is suffering in the process is consistent quality control in my opinion. I think China has the most pervasive problem but by no means are they the only ones. Take Indonesia for instance.. But there is hope! For a fine example of extrodinary turn around take a look at Japan! Forty years ago when you referred to a product as being "made in Japan" it meant something cheaply made and at the bottom rung of what one would consider of good quality. Fast Forward to today and it is the complete opposite for products made in Japan.

But in the meantime with these other countries such as China and/or Indonesia etc., we will unfortunately have to suffer through these various ordeals with quality control issues until they do a similar turnaround like Japan did. With China it will probably take a good ten to twenty years to straighten things out and probably a similar timeline with Indonesia and some of these other third world countries. Buying products that are made in these countries today is kind of a pay and pray approach where you spend your hard earned money and hope you will be buying something worthy of the products price and that it works according to spec. As we have seen though a lot of times that's not the case unfortunately.

Best,
Mike

The PSR3000 was made in the Phillipines, and it had very few reported problems. It wasn't the sturdiest keyboard in the world, but that was due to specifications - not manufacturing, and it offered a lot of features for $1500 msrp.

The PSR-S900 was made in Indonesia. I have never heard anything bad or good about Indonesian manufacturing.

I think the closure of American factories by Yamaha is most unfortunate, but it has no bearing on the quality of their electronic keyboards which were never manufactured by those factories.

About seven years ago, I had to return three successive defective Solton X1 keyboards. I opened one box, and several screws fell out. The X1 was made in Italy. Go figure. Italian manufacturing is excellent. When was the last time you had to return a plate of spaghetti?

Beakybird

Beakybird

[This message has been edited by Beakybird (edited 10-17-2007).]

Mike,

My PSR-3000 was made in Indonesia, and has never given ANY problems.

Your statements are pure speculation.

"A good ten to twenty years to straighten things out" is a presumptuous and preposterous assertion, and again, based on YOUR speculation.

BTW...your Tyros1 , and I believe your PSR-2000, were made in either China or Indonesia.

Wouldn't they have been made before the factory closures in the USA?

You seem happy with them.

BTW...nice website, great tunes.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-17-2007).]

Yes, the Tyros was made in China Ian. If you remember correctly the Tyros had some quality control issues of its own but fortunately my Tyros was spared of any major ones except a minor glitch where I presume the contacts on some of the panel buttons are not making solid contact at times and need to be pressed harder than normal or essentially more than once to get them to function. It seems a little contact spray does help but it has not completely eliminated the problem as other buttons will act up on occasion. As a side, I think Yamaha has done an extremely good job of keeping quality control "under control" for the most part and I would have no hesitation myself of buying Yamaha products whether Audio speakers that were once made at the U.S. facility in Georgia, U.S.A. or a keyboard made in Indonesia. I am simply pointing out that quality control has and will continue to be an ongoing issue that needs to be constantly maintained and improved upon or else things could get out of control and become not just a minor nuisance but a major flaw in the mechanism of excellence which Yamaha so strongly adheres to.

And the same goes for every other Company and their products as well.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 10-18-2007).]

As long as the majority don't care about the erosion in build quality, chasing after lower and lower prices and better and better sound at all costs, this trend will quickly spread.

As Ian keeps pointing out so gleefully, Yamaha arrangers are designed and meant to be home toys, NOT serious professional keyboards (unlike their WSs, that haven't seen the slip in build quality despite being produced overseas - as if EVERYTHING isn't produced overseas, now!). Anyone that expects otherwise had better be prepared to pay for higher quality, or at least start to make some SERIOUS noise in the way of complaints to Yamaha about inferior build quality compared to their (often less expensive!) workstation line.

But without a willingness to criticize your OWN arranger, Yamaha users are playing into the hands of the cost-cutters at Yamaha, and these shoddy build quality issues will continue. It's all well and good to praise Yamaha for it's sound and EXTREMELY light construction, but no-one should be unprepared for the issues that that standard of construction are going to bring up...

It will be interesting to see what proportion of S900's compared to MotifXS6's will still be fully operational in five year's time (well within a normal expected window of usage, IMO)...

Diki...I did not say anything of the sort...please don't misqoute me.

I would have thought cheap tactics were beneath you...guess I was wrong.

Ian

Sorry, Ian, 'Home KEYBOARDS'...

Apparently, according to you, we are ALL playing 'Home Keyboards'..

Just SOME are built as well as workstations, and others are built like... Well, anyone been to Wal-Mart lately? Some VERY PSR-like construction there...

It's just a shame that Yamaha don't offer a choice of construction qualities. Then the marketplace itself could decide whether we want lightweight, flimsy no touch keyboards, or, for the same price as WSs, the same build quality. But Yamaha march us down this dead end street, with no opportunity to show with our wallets that we ARE interested in better construction other than to buy the competition. Take it or leave it... The Yamaha Way.

They are increasingly moving towards the cheapest, flimsiest construction that they can possible get away with, while AT THE SAME TIME improving the build quality of their WSs. And all you (and, in fairness, most Yamaha owners) can do is sit around and go 'Yea, Yamaha, go team, go!' like some poor Japanese corporate drone. I was hoping for, let's just say, a little more WESTERN approach to corporate cutbacks.

Sumimasen.... My mistake. Can anyone lend me a katana and a shoto for seppuku?

Well not everyone Diki...but I know for sure that you and I are using them.

You just prefer a bulky and heavy keyboard without built in speakers and I prefer something lighter and far more manageable that has speakers.

Both are capable of doing the same thing for us...letting us make a living playing music.

I don't care if what I play is classed as a home keyboard...but it seems to bother you immensely.

Do you really need to play something that Roland tells you is a pro keyboard, just so you'll feel like a pro?

You keep trying to convince me the G70 is a pro instrument, but perhaps you are actually trying to convince yourself?

I'm secure enough at this point in my life about myself and my playing abilities(and limitations) to not worry if my keyboard doesn't shout "PRO" to other musicians...but are you?

No buddy, I don't care if what I use doesn't pass the "Diki board of approval", and I have suspicion that most working keyboardists on this forum don't care if they do either.

Now, I think it's time for tea...

Ian

Go on to the motifator forum and see thatbrand new work stations like the yamaha XS are having some build quality problems. Go on the korg forum and look at some of the postings about Korgs brand new flagship the M3 and read about its build problems or the triton extreme or TR that has cracking ( i mean literally )end caps.

Build quality has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not you are playing a home keyboard or a work station . It simply has to do with build quality. I owned the psr8000 for 4 years and played out with it every weekend without any physical problems and there are far too many players here with the psr3000 who have been using them as their 'go to ' instrument every day and have been using them successfully for a living without a hitch.

I hope yamaha sort out some of their short term quality control problems

But everyone HERE, certainly? If 'arranger'='home keyboard', this is the SZ 'Home Keyboard' forum, right?



Doesn't bother me a bit what it CALLED... Only bothers me what it is BUILT LIKE. Calling a PA800 or an SD-1 (or even a G70) a home keyboard doesn't stop it from being constructed like a WS, not a toy. I need 'pro' quality construction if I am going to pay 'pro' prices...



You got to stop smoking that stuff before you convince yourself that ALL pianos are Steinways, too...

Sorry, Ian, but comments about the poor build quality of PSR's outnumber praise for it's construction at least ten to one. SOME of us (and definitely more than the ones that don't care) are concerned by it's longevity. I don't give a damn what it looks like. I care how long it will last. Under heavy, day to day pressure. You have been lucky, so far with your PSRs. Others, OTOH, have not been so lucky.



There are only TWO thing that tells ME whether an instrument is 'pro' or not... Not any marketing from it's company, not any label on the case, and CERTAINLY not the incessant evangelism of a part time clinician.

My fingers and my ears... Write all you want, Ian. My fingers can tell, and my ears can hear (the two ARE related, despite your contention there is NO connection!) whether an instrument (of ANY kind!) is 'pro' or not.

Just because the PSRs 'sound' pro doesn't mean they 'feel' pro. And some of us, more than those that LIKE the PSR tactile experience, actually think that 'feel' is important. As to what the majority of us think of someone that doesn't think that 'feel' is of ANY importance whatsoever... I leave that to you to figure out over tea...

Please Diki...I told you already, I'm enthusiastic, not "evangelical"...although you are quickly becoming the latter with your insistence the G70 is "pro".

The G70 has "easy play" chords and auto-accompaniment. Fact.

That smacks of "home keyboard" and you, my friend are in denial...big time.

You can "yadda" all you like about the quality of PSRs...don't matter to me, or the many users out there who are satisfied with their home keyboards.

You may be a pro, but you play a home keyboard...what's so bad about that?

I still think you're a great guy...a little delusional and perhaps even a little gullible about what Roland's been feeding you about the G70 being "pro"...but a great guy nonetheless.,

You definitely need tea more than I do....it'll give you energy to help drag that big old home arranger from gig to gig.

I'm surprised you think tea is smoked...maybe that's how you use it, but here in Cape Breton we like it as a beverage.

Now, (and please read carefully) I'm going to drink a cup of tea...orange pekoe no less...cheers!

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-19-2007).]

I hope Tim has recieved his third S900 and it's perfect.

We haven't heard from, I hope that means he's finally enjoying his new keyboard.




------------------
Larry
SynthZone Frapper

Or at the other end of the spectrum (God forbid) he busted his head open falling to the floor after fainting when he realized his 3rd (and last) PSR S900's USB interface once again didn't work as advertised. His wife had to rush him to the hospital where he is quietly convalescing under heavy sedation since the wound required several stitches because of the force and severity of the blunt trauma to his noggin' when he fell, and he hasn't been able to update us to the situation since there is no internet access where he is staying.

Please say I'm wrong Tim! Please say the third PSR S900 is A-OK with no apparent anomalies to speak of. Pleeeezzzz!

Best,
Mike

OR...he is in the hospital getting the goosebumps hammered back down...listening to those great SA voices will do that, you know.

Seriously, I hope he's enjoying himself to the max and is satisfied with his purchase.

Ian

Hi Tim ,

As you might imagine , we would all like to know how you are doing with your 3rd S900 !!

Man , you just have to post !!

A lot of people are awaiting your word .

I do hope it`s A-OK .

Gary