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#133891 - 09/28/04 09:55 PM Value of a good sound person...
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Sunday afternoon was spent attending a 2-hour concert by the Glenn Miller Orchestra. While there were 16 incredible musicians who performed flawlessly, and two wonderful vocalist, the person who set up their sound system apparently did not have a clue what he or she was doing.

Needless to say there are lots of dedicated mics, and all obviously go through a huge mixer. Not only does the output go through their own system, but additionally, it fired through the house system as well.

The auditorium was filled to capacity, which is approximately 1,000 seats, plus there were folks standing in the back. When the first song, Moonlight Serenade, was played, it sounded incredible and there was not a dry eye in the place. The next song, however, involved a significant number of solos, one of which was played by a superb pianist. Unfortunately, the piano mic was not positioned correctly for the type of piano, and additionally, the volume level was not properly set. Consequently, the incredible solo he performed was only heard by the folks sitting in the first 10 rows. Beyond that distance, it was nearly inaudible.

The next mistake was with the volcalist's mics, of which there were 2. The sound person obviously forgot to set the effects, EQ and volume level. However, instead of being too low, they were too hot and overpowered the entire orchestra. No reverb, delay, echo, just dry vocals that despite lousy mic settings, still were quite good, at least those performed by the male vocalist. The female vocalist was so far off on her timing that I wondered if she was even hearing the band. When she performed Over The Rainbow, which is one of my altime favorite songs, I wanted to walk out the door--it was that bad.

I had attended a concert by the Glenn Miller Orchestra a year ago and everything, including the amplification, was perfect. I suspect they must have lost their previous sound person and had recently hired a new one.

I guess the bottom line here is the importance of checking your system's overall sounds before the performance cannot be stressed enough. I know of a few individuals that never walk around the room and listen to a midi or live sounds coming from their system and think that it's no big deal. From an audience standpoint, it's definitely a big deal.

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#133892 - 09/29/04 09:37 AM Re: Value of a good sound person...
GlennT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1790
Loc: Medina, OH, USA
Gary, you've made some excellent observations. Whenever I'm at a concert, especially outdoors, I try to be positioned as close to the sound booth as possible. That's where it should 'sound' best, but I can't count the times I've had to resist the temptation to clue in the sound man.... very frustrating!

As far as when we're performing, doing a pre-performance sound check is sooooooo important. Better yet, if you're lucky enough to have a spouse or friend (you know, like your token groupy , who accompanies you when you perform, teach that person how to "hear and balance" sound, and then allow him/her to have complete control over your sound.

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#133893 - 09/29/04 02:51 PM Re: Value of a good sound person...
PraiseTheLord Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 782
Loc: N Fort Myers, FL, USA
I live this every week playing at Church. We cannot afford a professional sound guy, and every amateur in the place has an opinion on the overall volume level and their preference on which singer they bring out, and the balance between the keyboard and singers.

What are your thoughts on the need of a sound person in this setting? What about getting a professional to come in and balance the board, and then sticking to that? Not optimum, I know, but may be better than amateur meddling .......

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Graham
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Graham, Korg Pa1000, Korg G1 Air, Countryman E6, Roland BA330, 2 x Roland CM-30, , Mackie SRM150

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#133894 - 10/02/04 06:22 PM Re: Value of a good sound person...
Smurf Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 57
Loc: Ohio
I have just left a situation like you mention. Every one that was in the church that thought they new how to run sound got a chance, so they could be part of the worship exp. All it was was a mess! A person who KNOWS what they are doing is worth their weight in gold, as far as I'm concerned. I have 15 years exp. running sound for touring bands and outdoor concerts, but because I was just a "musician" (worship leaders words) I could not possibly know what I was talking about! It really brought down the worship exp., and created a very tense playing experiance. As a drummer-guitar-bass player, and now keyboard, I think that we, as musicians, have a better understanding of how things should be mixed, tones should be set, etc. For the last 2 years I played bars we hired a sound man. It cut into the pay, but the overall pressure was reduced 90% on the band because WE did not have to worry about where the feedback was comming from, is the vocal to loud, etc., we could just give 100% to the music.

And as for the Glenn Miller Orchestra, I have seen them a couple dozen times over the years and that has to be the hottest big band around! The musician ship is top notch, and to trust that to a "knob twister" is a total crock. I undrstand the need to cut costs somewhere, but when you do it to such an important part of the overall production just foolish. After working with some of the best sound techs in my area I have to say that if you find a good one, keep him (or her), make them a part of the band. The guy we had was an intergrated part of our overall show. He knew when we we're off, and could help us get a grip on it. Like wise we knew when HE was off, and could help out. The sound man can make or break your show, so don't skimp, get a good one!

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#133895 - 10/02/04 06:35 PM Re: Value of a good sound person...
RyanS Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 82
Loc: Jackson, MO, USA
I'm fortunate to say that we've never had any big problems with our sound at church. We don't have just 1 person who runs it though. In fact, the one who is probably most experienced in sound has been a praise singer for the last year. I play keyboard but I when I get the chance, I usually run the board at times. There's also a couple of other guys, one of them who is our other main sound guy who's been running PA systems probably longer than I've been around. We generally don't have any problems, maybe an occasional ring from time to time. I'm not what you would consider "experienced" but I've picked up a few tips here and there.

I think our biggest issue is the tapes. If someone's not paying attention to the tapes, they usually aren't loud enough. Personally I'd rather it be a little distorting than to be too quiet. When I run the sound, I always make sure the record volume is turned up loud enough but not to where its distorting.
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Ryan

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#133896 - 10/03/04 12:28 PM Re: Value of a good sound person...
RyanS Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 82
Loc: Jackson, MO, USA
I post saying our sound is usually always good and then something bad happens, lol. Today we didn't have our 2 usual sound guys at church today, both on vacation. So I ran the sound for the first part of the service, which is our lesson. The when worship service started I had to go up to play keyboard, so everything sounded fine until one of our ministers who I "THOUGHT" knew how to run sound. He kept changing the volume on everyone, and between songs muted all the mics so when they started into another song, you couldn't hear everyone until he unmuted all 9 or 10 mics. Then during the preaching, he must've turned down the main volume because the pastor sounded really muffled and when things would really get going and people were rejoicing, you couldn't understand one word he was sayin'. All the sound the audience was getting was coming from the monitors. I tell ya what, I wanted to so bad go back there and say somethin' but I tried my best not to let it bother me, but it just sounded so bad. He'll probably be running the sound tonite so I'll say something about leaving the main volume up during the preaching since it was so bad. Now I think I understand what some of you have been saying, lol.
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Ryan

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