I'm looking forward to buying a keyboard that is less than $300 that will teach me to play. Not only that I wish there will be touch sensitive keys and good quality sound. What brands should I look for? What model do u guys suggest?

For a $100 dollars more you might want to check out the Yamaha DGX-300 Keyboard. It sells for $399.99 in the USA, eg., Guitar Center, etc. The Piano sounds are very good for a Keyboard in this class, ie., "low end". It has has floppy disk drive, internal speakers, 32 note polyphony, a 6 track sequencer to record your own songs, and other nice features.

Or you might be able to find a good used Keyboard on eBay for the price your looking at. Be careful if you buy on eBay. Make sure the product and person selling it is legit. Use PayPal for extra security, not a 3rd party go between which could end up being a scam. If you buy a used one on eBay you will most likely not get a guarantee with the product.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 07-04-2003).]

I agree with Mike.
Another good and not expensive option is PSR 290. All my music students are playing this excelent kbd.

Chico

Bigfoot,
I have a Yamaha PSR SQ16 for sale @ $200.00. I bought it new and have not used it much (right after buying it I started playing with a 7 piece band and did not need an arranger). It had a retail price around $2200.00. I paid $1500.00 plus shipping. I have the owner's manual, demo disc and all the documentation that came with the instrument. I'm sending some photos to your email address. I can supply any info you want including specifications and features. Let me know if interested.
Deaton
dvjduck@yahoo.com

Hey,

Thanks for the replies. I've been looking at the EZ30 also because of its tutorial features. Do I really need those features? Or are the regular lessons on the screen good enough?

About the sound quality, how good is each keyboard compared to each other? Comparing the PSR 292, EZ30, DGX300, and PSRSQ16

I think Dano has a Yamaha Ez 130 0r 30 whateverthe number was for sale. It was his that he used to teach his son, and i think he wants about $175.00 for it. Dan will be back from vacation monday, July 7th. His email at the store is: keyboardcity@yahoo.com

Hope this helps you out. The keyboard has the lighted keys, so the learning process is easier, but it also sounds decent. Bob Lee

Yes he does I talked to him through email. Waiting for his reply.

I have a question. If I buy a regular keyboard like the EZ30 or the SQ16, and connect it to the computer using MIDI input, would I be able to use it as MIDI input. Like say I started up Cubasis and if I select the right MIDI input port, would I just simply press a key for a certain amount of time and then that note will show up on the track selected?

..about the tutorial features...

I have lookd at these features on several keyboards and they seem rather gimmicky to me. I suggest you consider some of the great 3d party sioftware available.

I am partial to the programs made by PG Music. They make Band-in-a-box, a great learning and practicing tool which every musician needs. They also have several piano "master class" programs which I highly recommend.

Other companies like Voyetra make piano-lesson programs that have been well-received. Don't know much about these others.

All of the keyboards mentioned in these posts have "MIDI-in" and "MIDI-out" connectors. This enables you to connect the keyboard to your computer's sound card. You will need a good sound card, and the most recommended of these is the Sound Blaster Live. Fifty bucks. Be prepared for a steep learning curve getting all the parts hooked up so the keyboard and computer work together. It's worth it.

JDW

I'm a Yamaha dealer and you need to know about a few others not mentioned here. For $299.00 you can get a DGX202 with 76 keys and actually a lot more features than the DGX300. The DGX202 does not have a disk drive but it allows you to split any sounds in the keyboard where the DGX300 makes you use their split sounds and the DGX202 has the data wheel like what's on the PSR2000. Also, Yamaha will have the new replacement for the EZ30 in just a couple of weeks. The new models are the same price but feature lights in the actual keys like Casio does and not have the lights above the keys which are very hard to follow and use. The PSR292 replaced the PSR290 last year and the DGX202 is exactly the same keyboard but with 76 keys and a pitch bend wheel.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566

The keyboards with 2 wheels on the left-what are they for?

And the model PSR SQ16, can anyone give me info on that? I've been looking at google but I found only a few pages on it. Its an old keyboard but I want to make sure it stands up to what keyboards have today.

The PSRSQ16 was probably the biggest flop Yamaha has had with arranger keyboards. It was loaded with features, but very few people could ever figure out how to use them all. I sold a few and my next door neighboor actually still has his and every once in a while they ask me to come over and show them how to use it. It was an expensive keyboard but it clearly was not made with ease of use in mind. The sounds and styles were good for it's time, but not even close to what is available for just a few hundred dollars new today.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

For Yamaha, I think the best solutions are the PSR 292 and DGX 202. Any other ones that are of higher quality but around the price range of the $300? $450 highest.

And what about the other brands like Casio and Roland. I don't know about models of other brands so I need some help there.

Thanks guys.

I'm just browsing through the Casio website and I see the models like [WK-1630] for $300 and it has 2 pitch bend wheels. Comparing this keyboard to the DGX202, what are the pros and cons?
http://www.casio.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=products.detail&catalog=Music%20Instruments§ion=73%252F76-Note%20Keyboards&product=WK-1630

Sorry to put another post, got something to add.

Most importantly, which keyboard would u recommend, the Casio or the Yamaha DGX202, and why?

I tried most of the keyboards mentioned and end up returning them all because they lack two things crucial for live playing (pro) but I think it's also important for beginners as well. They lack registration memories capability which allows saving of all the settings into one button. So lets say you want to play a song that requires the use of piano voice, finger bass and set the keyboard transpose to key of G then all you have to do is to save it into that one button. Also as George mentioned about the inability to change the split voice independently. I think PSR292, DGX series and all the YAMAHA line below $300 has the one or more drawbacks as I mentioned above.

However CASIO WK-1630 has everything one needs plus it also has loud speakers - the loudest of them all which is nice. The only drawback is the piano sound which is not as nice sounding as the YAMAHA PSR292 or the DGX202 that George mentioned. In fact I saw a prefessional player uses this keyboard performing live in front of hundreds of people (concert) in a band and it sounds ok. As Uncle Dave in this forum also testified that in the hands of a pro, this keyboard could sound decent.

If you go to Guitar Center, you will see all these keyboards side by side and you can make your own comparison. Sure the Yamaha sounds better than CASIO's but they lack the said features while the CASIO's have them. If you don't care for it now, then YAMAHA is a good bet. Most beginners will probably chooses YAMAHA. But if I am a pro and only has $300 to spend, I will pick CASIO anyday over YAMAHA. CASIO just make more functional keyboards for the under $300 range although the sound is inferior. The lack of registration memory function in YAMAHA will get tiring after a while !!

GUITAR CENTER is the best place to buy this since you can return it within 30 days for any reason. I returned the keyboard 6 times without any problems-poor GC. Also, bring the lowest priced ad from the internet and show them to the sales person to be matched !

The Casio also has a modulation wheel as well as a pitch bend wheel. the DGX202 only has a modulation wheel. does that make that much of a difference.

BTW,

The piano voice on the Casio sounds (a little/ somewhat/ a lot) worse than the Yamaha DGX202 (as well, but not) the other voices.

Circle the correct answer hehe

Piano sound on CASIO WK1630 is significantly worse after listening to the Yamahas. But if you don't have the Yamahas, I guess you would not really notice it.

I have been playing for many years (live) with many different styles and voices (mostly pianos and bass) and rarely do I need the modulations wheels/pitch bend - in fact never. For beginners, I would not worry about it now.

Because I saw one of the Michel's video on the site http://www.vonckenfan.de/html/tyrosdemo_in_rendsburg.html

Not sure which one maybe the 2nd but I know one of them he uses the 2 wheels very nicely.

And how long would the Casio last? Would I still be able to stay with it when I become a student level?

What exactly are the models made by
Casio and Yamaha that have built-in lights
under the keys?(as well as MIDI in and
out). Thanks.

For Yamaha, its the EZ30 and EZ20 and a couple more.......on this site below
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/List/ModelSeriesListLE/0,6583,CTID%253D205300%2526CNTYP%253DPRODUCT%2526VNM%253DLIVE%2526AFLG%253DY,00.html

For Casio
http://www.casio.com/index.cfm?fuseactio...ted%20Keyboards

That CASIO WK-1630 as I mentioned that even a pro was using it on stage. Uncle Dave also witnessed this on another thread few days ago. You can use it from beginner all the way to advanced - it will last a long, long time. You can even make money with it gigging. It's quite versatile and cheap ! I would say go either with that or the Yamaha DGX202 that George mentioned. Not sure about the EZ30 since I have not played it.

Now using the MIDI in, could I use it with programs like Cakewalk or Cubasis? Like if I press the note C would it show up as the note C on the program with the correct timing?

What do you mean by changing the split voice independently?

Independently means you can select a different sound as you wish for the different sections of the keyboard. If you choose to play the keyboard in split mode as this is the best sounding method for full band effect, you can split the keyboard into two sections. The left section is for bass (for example) and the right section for your main voice and a layered voice. For DGX300, you cannot choose a different voice for the bass section. In fact you can only choose from a combinations (pre-selected) split voices - i.e. the factory already pre-assign a bass voice and piano voice combination and you cannot change it. What if you want to change the piano voice with a brass sound while maintaining the same left hand bass voice - well, you cannot !!! However, I think you can change them independently for DGX202 and PSR292 - but then you are missing the registration memory capabilities.

Now if I'm not impressed with the sounds on the Casio, I can always get a sound module and hook it up through MIDI to get more/better voices is that true?

Bigfoot,
I'm sure the Casio is MIDI compatible, as are most keyboards, but then you would be getting away from your $300.00 maximum you stated at the beginning of the thread. If you are willing to buy a sound module, you might as well buy a better quality keyboard from the get go.
Star

One of our Illustrious dealers came up with this way to make the split feature on the DGX300/500 a little more versatile

Creating Custom Split Voices on the DGX300/500

While the DGX is not designed to feature custom split voices, using the simple workaround steps below will enable the unit to performing this feature.

1) Press the [SPLIT] button.

2) Choose one of the Split Voices between 113 and 122. The Split Voice with the best left hand voice should be chosen.

3) Press the [DUAL] button.

4) Press the [vSETTING] button once. The display should indicate 'M.VOLUME'.

5) Press the [0] (zero) button 3 times. This will reduce the 'Main Voice' volume to zero leaving only the 'Dual Voice' on the right hand side of the split. This step is optional.

6) Press the [vSETTING] button six times. The display should appear to be the normal voice select display.

7) Choose the new right hand voice by pressing the [+/YES], [-/NO] or the voice can be accessed directly by entering the number directly using the numeric keypad.

8) Adjust other 'Dual Voice' parameters if necessary as described on page 27 of the Owners Manual.

This custom split can now be saved as part of a registration memory.

Steve Deming
Yamaha Customer Support


[This message has been edited by YamahaUS1 (edited 07-08-2003).]

The drawback is what if you want to have 3 voices: a split voice (bass), main voice (piano or whatever) and dual voice (strings or whatever) - well you cannot ! The above scenario is very common as one needs to layer with a softer background voice especially for slow songs. I know that DGX has a combo piano and strings as ONE voice but you cannot choose it independently.

If YAMAHA corrects this deficiency, I think more players will buy it. However, most novices would not notice this until they play it in a few months and increased their playing skills and then it's too late to return the product. Also the registration memories is very limited compared to CASIO. It's very limiting to use the keyboard in live situation. As for CASIO, it's quite versatile BUT the voices are inferior in quality (not very noticeable to most novices).

Wait so you CAN'T have 3 split with the Yamaha or both the DGX202 and the WK-1630?

CAN you have split with DGX202?

Let me clarify once more: CASIO WK-1630 does NOT have that problem (split). Only DGX300 has that problem. DGX202 and PSR292 does NOT have the problem but they lack reg memory ability.

Pls note that SPLIT mode allows the keyboard to be divided into 2 sections (Left and Right hand). But the right section should allow 2 voices to be layered (the good keyboard). CASIO WK1630, DGX202 and PSR292 are OK here. Your understanding that keyboard can be divided into 3 sections is not correct.

Ok I understand that now.

In the Casio Specs web page, this is what it saids for the pedal.

Assignable Pedal Jack (Sustain, Soft, Sostenuto, Rhythm Start/Stop)

Does the Yamaha DGX202 has these pedal options also? In their website it only saids

Foot Switch (Optional)

Second, would I ever need to press a registration memory key to change the settings in the middle of a song? Or only in the beginning if I'm performing and don't have time to press 10 buttons.

[This message has been edited by Bigfoot (edited 07-08-2003).]

This is a feature set, not a bug. It will not be changing until a new model comes out (if even then). When all is said and done, this is a musical instrument. It needs to sound good, and it needs to feel good. Everything else is subject to individual needs. Most beginners aren't thinking about live performance, nor should they be.

Regards,


------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America

Bigfoot,
If you are in the middle of a song and you want to switch to different settings (i.e. different style, transpose), if your keyboard has reg memory ability then all you have to do is press that button (that you already set beforehand) and everything will change instantly !

Yamaha: You do have a point about the novice probably not caring so much about reg memory. After all, they are beginners. But for me, that is a big oversight IMO and the keyboard is unusable for performance. Yamaha does have nice feel and sounds especially DGX300 which has superb key feel that makes me love to play the machine.

Just saw another keyboard

Casio WK1800

Anyone tried that keyboard? How is the sound on it. I heard some clips and it sounds fuller than the WK1630.

WK1800 and WK1630 sounds the same - the other one has disk drive IIRC.

Have you visitted GC yet ? Play with it a longg time at the store and you will know which one is right. They will not kick you out. I was there for like 3 hours - nobody cares.

I owned the WK1800. It is a good beginner Arranger Keyboard or can even be of use to a more experienced player. The Piano sound is fairly decent. It has a Floppy disk Drive and uses Registrations. 32 note Polyphony makes it a little constraining as you will most likely notice note drop off when you use the Style Accompaniment feature and you Layer voices. You probably won't want to use it for gigging because many of the Voices aren't up to snuff. Although a very experienced player can make just about any Keyboard sound good. At $400 it is a good buy for what you get. But my advice is save up your money and get an Arranger Keyboard that will satisfy you over the long haul if necessary. Something that will be better to Gig with and also impress not only you more but those that happen to listen to you.

Usually a beginner who is serious about learning to play the Keyboard will eventually end up playing in a Live situation, ie., Gigging, or at the very least play in front of friends and family, etc. So get a good Keyboard from the get go which will provide you with "years" of enjoyment and will be more technically cutting edge down the road, ie., (years into the future.) But since you are a beginner make sure the Keyboard has a fairly user friendly interface (Operating System) and is easy to use, navigate, and learn. So, in other words, try to stay away from Keyboards that require you to have an advanced Degree in Mathematics or Engineering to be able to use them effectively, eg., Yamaha Motif (Original, it's a Non-Arranger though), or the Korg PA 60/80, etc.

Also, wait for Summer NAMM before you purchase anything. See what shows up there in the way of Arranger Keyboards. If something tickles your fancy start saving towards that end (Keyboard). It usually takes a few months (sometimes many months) before NAMM products hit the shelves, eg., Yammies keyboards have a tendency to take forever to reach the Market place after their initial unveiling. You know what I mean. A Loooonnnggggggggg time. Any way, that's my advice. But if you can't wait and have to have one now, I would still get an Arranger that is geared more toward the Professional which would be in the upper Mid range or even the High End category, eg., Yamaha PSR 1100/2100, Technics KN2400/2600, Technics KN7000, Yamaha Tyros, or even the new Korg PA1-X/Pro-"if the User interface (OS) turns out to be easy to use and learn."

GEM Keyboards are very good too. As are Ketron's. But again, if you are a beginner the Casio WK1800 is a decent starter Keyboard especially if you are short on dough.

Best regards,
Mike
Summer NAMM 2003, Nashville TN, USA July 18th-20th. "6" days and counting....

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 07-12-2003).]

In www.musiciansfriend.com, they sell both the WK-1630 and the WK-1800 at $299.99

There isn't a shop called Guitar Center around the area I live in. Sucks for me.

I've visited several keyboard shops around my area and haven't seen the Casio's yet. Only the Yamahas.

Bigfoot,
If I were you, I would try really really hard to get a used PSR550 or even the old PSR740 (loaded with pro features) from one of the synthzone members or somewhere reliable. The new PSR550 can be had for $499.00 at music123.com Maybe you can get a used one for $200-300 if you're lucky. If you're really lucky, get the even newer PSR1000 for that amount of money. I bought my PSR2000 for $550 and I am set for the next 5-10 years.

If not a new one even a used PSR350 is much better sounding than CASIO WK1630 or 1800. These are older keyboards but they have all the essential features that we've been talking about here. When you amplify the keyboard, it sounds decent and much better than CASIO - warmer pianos, etc. Can't go wrong with those older models.

You know, after listening to the media clips couple more times I do tend to hear the Casio sounds weaker compared to the Yamahas. But the Casio speakers kinda makes it sound fuller.

I'm going to New York City next weekend so I'll see if there are any local keyboard shops or maybe a Guitar Center.

I will try to find a used keyboard of the models u told me.

Check out the Roland EM25

I saw PSR350 for less than $300 at music123.com