George. I stand to be corrected....but I think the keybed is a major slice of the manufacturing cost. This being the case it is unlikely the feel and quality is going to be very good. When I last sampled a DGX I thought the key response was light, but I am not certain it was the 505.

Give me 76 notes as a compromise between portability and function.

Three right-hand voices would be useful.

I'm not too bothered about hammer action on a portable keyboard. Something with a bit of mass and decent springing would do nicely.

This is a rather difficult predicament because an 88 Key 'Arranger' with weighted/hammer action keys is not the same as a standard Workstation such as the Motif/ES where there is no Style accompaniment being played in a Live setting. I think it would be extremely difficult for the Keyboardist to play many of the different Voices if the above scenario came to pass. Playing Guitar riffs, swift Sax pieces, or playing a fast melodic Violin improvisation, you would find it difficult IMO to accomplish with any ease or dexterity with a weighted/hammer action 88 Key Arranger. Leave the weighted/hammer action Keybed to 88 Key Digital Pianos or standard Workstation Keyboards.

Btw, most Musicians that buy 88 Key Workstations such as the Motif/ES, etc., use mainly the Piano patches in them and not much else I believe. That is, mostly the Grand Pianos and or Electric Piano patches. And if they do use other instrument voices, it most likely wouldn't be during Live performances but in the Studio where the constraints and demands of a Live performance doesn't happen.

Try playing an instrument Voice 'other' than a Grand Piano or an Electric Piano patch with an 88 Key Tyros III that is fully weighted with Hammer Action on a Stage in a Live setting and see how far you get before people start throwing tomatoes at you. Not because of being an inferior musician but because the weighted hammer action on your 88 Key Tyros PRO III makes it nearly impossible to play those 'other' Voices with any dexterity or finesse with Style accompaniment (especially if the tempo is up in the higher triple digits); resulting in missed notes, flubbed parts, and lagging terribly in your timing. All because the weighted Hammer Action Keys become a hinderance and your hands (fingers) can't negotiate the demands of Live play with an Arranger using the Style Accompaniment and you soon notice that your hands are aching from the constant resistance and pressure when playing the afore mentioned 'other' voices in rapid succession during a Live performance to which your hands will literally bow to the 'pressure' in short order IMO. Whew!! What a mouthful... My hands hurt already just from thinking about it!

So, I don't think Yamaha should make an 88 Key 'weighted'/hammer action Arranger Keyboard IMO. It would be counter intuitive to the OMB modus operandi [MO] if you ask me.

I would welcome an 88 Key Workstation Arranger but feel it should only have semi-weighted Keys at most.

Likewise a 76 Key Workstation Arranger should be either semi-weighted or if it had an excellent Synth weighted or Synth-action Keybed would be ideal too. For instance; along the same lines as the current Tyros Keybed but with perhaps an even greater improvement over the current Tyros key action would be nice and welcomed for the 76 Key version or even an 88 Key version.

Also make them light enough to be fairly easy to transport. But please don't skimp on the 'build quality' in the process. And I know I'm going against my own preferences here, but if they are going to be light enough they should NOT have built-in speakers in them. I don't think it's feasible at this point in time on the technology end of things to be able to provide excellent goose pimple generating awesome high Wattage in-built speakers and still keep the weight under 37 lbs. for a 76 Key Arranger and under 50 lbs. for an 88 Key Arranger. When technology permits this, then that would be the time to start putting in those awesome speakers in 76 and 88 Key Arranger Keyboards. But for now leave them speaker-less. >> Case in point is the new Korg Pa1X (61 key version with speakers). It has only 61 keys but it weighs a ton (figuratively speaking of course but you get the gist of what I'm saying). The speakers sound awesome from what I understand but is it worth it when you have to haul it to Gigs on a regular basis? Unless you're under 30 and have a Charles Atlas physique or you hire a Roadie to do the dirty work for you.

My 2 cents.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-24-2004).]

If Yamaha offered the Tyros in both 61 synth Keys and 76 key weighted, I would have purchased the 76 key weighted. I gig with the Tyros and the additional weight would not be a problem.

For practicing in the Studio, I use 88 fully weighted keys. This keyboard NEVER moves.

Al

George - My vote is for a Tyros or 3000 with 76 Semi weighted Keys please - Just like Ketron, Korg and Roland have on their pro arrangers (Like Yamaha used to).

KF

Mike,

Very good response! Can you imagine trying to play the sax lead of Yackity Sax with fully-weighted, hammer-action keys. Or how about playing the guitar intro of La Bamba with something as sluggish as piano keys. I'll stick with my cheesy keys and be thankful for them every day I play.

Gary

Yamaha already has an excellent 76 key keybed that the R&D costs were paid for many years ago; it's the FS keybed which has been around since the DX7. It is what is used in the 61 and 76 key versions of the Motif ES workstation and it could very easily have been used in the Tyros without running the price up very much if any at all. However, they chose not to probably because some bean counter in the bowls of the basement decided they couldn't make as much off each keyboard if they put it in, but I, for one, would have been willing to pay the difference in cost. In fact, I asked my local Yamaha repairman if it was possible to put an FS keybed in my Tyros and while it would physically fit it won't electrically match up and can not be made to work. Oh well, at least I tried, LOL.

Tom

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Bigger is not always better

If Yamaha wanted to make a pro-level 76/88 note arranger then they would have done it already because their European market would've supported it pretty handily and it would have been their endorsee's keyboard of choice. Look over on Yamaha's ArrangerWorkstation.com area related to the the famous people using Yamaha arrangers - most are still using the 9000 Pro. Does Yamaha really want to show off it's endorsees using discontinued products? That's a clue that something isn't right.

For a long time we've been debating why Yamaha hadn't made a Tyros Pro since it seemed an easy enough proposition. I now suspect that Yamaha intended to release a 76 note Tyros Pro at Winter NAMM earlier this year when they discontinued the 9000 Pro... however the new keyboard may have had the faults and problems that the Tyros had with USB and possibly much more. Imagine the hell that Yamaha's support people, already stretched thinly, would face if that happened; not to mention the further damage to Yamaha's credibility.

My guess is that the Tyros Pro already exists right now but it can't be released because it has major bugs. Consequently, Korg and Roland have trumped Yamaha by bringing new pro-level arrangers in this year to fill the market and the vacuum created by the 9000 Pro. If we see a new Tyros Pro anytime soon, it should be viewed with great caution.

Would I Buy a PSR3000 with 88 keys?

NO !

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drdalet