jon,
we live in very different countries, different parts of the world. but my story is pretty much similar to yours.
i understand what you're saying about the music you play/make. music is a great vehicle for carrying your worship and also for carrying your message to people, and maybe the technical skills, even the musical skills are not the MOST important factor here.
g70 i am sure is agreat instrument for your music! keep doing what you're doing now!
oh yea... when is e60 released?

I eagerly await Roland taking the E80 electronics and putting it in a G70 form factor.

When that happens, you'll see my G70 up for sale.......... not before!

(And while they're at it, a sampler and HD wouldn't hurt - and BRING BACK THE BLOODY CHORD SEQUENCER!)

Great to hear someone is enjoying the G70. And I agree that Roland really knows how to do Organ sounds.

Having 76 keys is another huge plus also.

There are some things I wish Roland would implement on their next 76 key high end Arranger. They are = lighter package, Jazz Root Chord recognition in Accomp. mode, the ability to install a Hard Drive, a Sampler would be nice, the ability to install more than one SRX expansion card, USB 2.0 To Device AND To Host, and a lower price point.

It's interesting that you mention you would have gotten a Tyros2 if it had 76 keys. I am positive there are a multitude of other keyboardists who would do the same thing. If Yamaha kept the weight in the 30-35 lb range they would sell like hotcakes in my opinion.

Are you listening Yamaha? Would you like the extra revenue a 76 key high end Arranger would bring to the table? Or are you still in that "failed experiment" mode over the 9000PRO?

Nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say.

Best regards,
Mike

I've got a feeling it would be difficult to make ANY really decent 76 note keybed in a case that didn't flex weigh that little. Then add in a LOT of hardware knobs, sliders, HDs and extras........

Truth is, a REALLY robust, roadworthy 76er is going to be heavy (you ever lifted a K2500?). I like a keyboard I can smack around and not have it move under me!

Ever play a Roland Fantom X7 (76 keys) or the new Korg TR 76 (76 keys)? Granted, they are not Arrangers but there is nothing on an Arranger that is different as far as weight goes that would make them heavier versus a traditional Workstation. Last time I looked the Styles and Multipads on Arrangers don't add excessive weight to it.

The Fantom X7 weighs in at 32 lbs /14.51 kg whilst the Korg TR 76 weighs in at an amazing 20.28 lbs / 9.2 kg And since composites are getting lighter AND stronger it is now possible to have a lighter keyboard and still retain the "road-worthiness" aspect of it as you say.

Also to keep these lighter keyboards from moving around on a keyboard Stand you may find putting Velcro (the kind with adhesive on the bottom of it) to the top of the Stand's corners and then accordingly align Velcro to the bottom of the keyboard and placing it upon the stand will help keep the keyboard in place while you 'smack' it around on stage, etc. There are other methods to do essentially the same thing.

PS: I realize that the Fantom X7 and Korg TR 76 don't have weighted keys, but for all except dedicated pianists most people would find their keybeds quite acceptable in my opinion.

Furthermore, adding weights to a keybed would theoretically add only an additional seven to fifteen pounds (or thereabouts) to its total weight; depending, of course, on how many 'ounces' of weight they use on each key. So, for instance; instead of the Korg TR 76 weighing 20 lbs as it now does it would weigh between 27-35 lbs (or thereabouts). >> Not bad for a fully weighted and technologically advanced 76 key Workstation huh?

The same thing would/could apply to an Arranger Workstation. We just have to convince Yammy and the others (or rather should I say - 'they have to convince themselves') go ahead and produce them.

Best regards,
Mike






[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 06-25-2006).]

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[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-28-2006).]

I think Yamaha has it wrong!
They are asking the wrong question.

What they should be asking is if the Tyros 2 (with all the features and sounds) had 76 keys and was less than 35LBS, would you get it or would you consider another brand.

I am sure that ALL of the currant Tyros 2 owners would still get it. Since all of the hoopla about the Tyros 2 is about the sounds and styles. In addition, Yamaha would get even more sales from the people who want and need 76 keys and who absolutely would not buy a Tyros 2 in its present 61 key condition.

I can guaranty you that if 76 keys were so disliked, Roland, Lionstracks, Wersi, Korg and Ketron would not be making them.

Yamaha had a perfect chance to totally dominate the arranger market and leaving no room for the competition if the Tyros to had 76 keys. Remember it is the sounds and styles that sell the Tyros 2. Because the sounds and styles are excellent on the Tyros 2, having it weigh an extra LBS would not have decrease sales.

WHAT!!! Oh man. that would be great news, if they did this.
Starkeeper

Yes, I think a big factor to Yamaha making a 76 note high end arranger is the 'competition'. But Yamaha has to see the need or to be pressured into doing it.

As it stands now the Korg Pa1XPRO and or the Roland G70 or even the Ketron SD1+ don't present a real threat to Yamaha in terms of taking over marketshare from them. The Pa1XPRO has sold reasonably well but there are factors that keep it from being THEE 'hot item'. Likewise with the Roland G70 and Ketron SD1+. But when Korg, Roland, Ketron or whoever, produce a knock-out punch in the 76 key arena then Yamaha will take notice and act accordingly in my opinion.

The Pa1XPRO and G70 are too heavy for easy portability and that and that alone is probably the biggest drawback to both of them besides the high price tags. And Korg and also Ketron continue to miss out by limiting the polyphony on their high end arrangers even though people say the Korg has better allocation and no need to worry about notes dropping out. I'm not sure about Ketron's polyphony allocation but, either way, in today's world 62 or 64 note polyphony doesn't cut it in my opinion. A lot of keyboardists simply will not buy a Board if it has 62/64 note polyphony. Especially now that 128 note polyphony is commonplace and is actually considered the 'standard' for today.

The G70 has 128 note polyphony but the high price tag plus the weight factor and also the less than stellar reports from many of the people who played it when it first came to market with apparently obvious shortcomings all make for a sense of hesitation for the consumer on whether to get one or not. Apparently Roland has corrected a lot of the shortcomings like too much reverb in the sounds and other bugs in the OS but in my opinion it is too little too late and the hopefully big BOOM Roland was anticipating has turned into a fizzle in my opinion. So the G70 is really not a threat to Yammie.

In the meantime the Tyros with its 'measly' 61 keys is flying off the shelves and Yamaha must be as happy as a pig in a trough because of it. They are raking in the bucks and they see no need to venture into the 76 key high end arena. Why should they? They perceive NO threat from the competition and until they do there would be no need for them to step up to the plate and produce a 76 key Tyros2/3/4/5/6/7/, etc.

So in the meantime are only real hope is counting on the 'competition' to put the 'heat' on Yamaha and 'force' them into doing something they apparently now 'dread' to do, with possbily the failed experiment mentality hanging over their head with the 9000PRO a big factor. That and of course their seeing no threat to their dominance in the high end arranger market "regardless" of the number of keys their's or the competitions Boards have.

Roland's new E60 may be the spark that gets Yammie moving in the direction of a 76 key something, anything. But it would be the mid-range arena not the high-end arena. Nevertheless it would be a start and hopefully a start as well of something in the high-end market. But only if they see the 'opportunity' or are somehow made to comply because of the competition.

Best regards,
Mike

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[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-28-2006).]