Scott

I think one day we WILL see Arrangers on TV. And I feel the Tyros is an Arranger that 'deserves' that type of spotlight and recognition. The sounds on the Tyros are quite simply amazing and that fine line or barrier if you will, between Synth Workstation and Arranger Workstation is diminishing and becoming more and more transparent and eventually will be gone IMO. The Tyros CAN be played without Style accompaniment much to people's chagrin and because the sounds are there it is able to compete with the best Synth Workstations for quality sound output IMO. And the Tyros is one of the best 'looking' Keyboards (Arranger or otherwise) that it would be a natural in front of the camera. But I think [one] of the things that holds the Tyros 'down' from being promoted on TV is once again the smaller Key size. 1/2" shorter over 5 octaves to a comparable Korg PA80 is a distance that IMO has to be reckoned with. Putting a Professional keyboardist in front of the Camera and especially if it is a Live broadcast, with a Tyros or other Yamaha Portatone Keyboard could possibly cause the Professional Keyboardist to think twice about his repertoire especially if it includes a complicated Classical or other sophisticated piece. Who wants to shell out clams when the President of the United States or some other dignitary may be in the audience? (I know, I know; I'm thinking BIG here) But clams can happen especially on a Keyboard that has smaller Keys even when an expert player is at the helm. The reason you see a Motif6 on TV is more than likely the music being heard is some type of Hip Hop, Funky Jazz, or Ambience/Synth Music and the Station playing it is catering to the 'younger' generation. You know; GenX, etc. And the person playing the Motif6 is probably in his teens or early twenties also. Either that or Yamaha sponsors the Group where the Motif6 was spotted on TV. Also the Key action on the Motifs are very good so half the battle is already won (the other half of the battle is having larger Keys). Btw, I really like the Key action on my Tyros too. It is way better than the PSR 2000/2100 and after comparing it with my Motif ES7 I feel the Tyros held its own against it.

So the conclusion to this would be:

"Larger size Keys on Yamaha's Arrangers would go a long way to promote and enhance their probability of gaining notoriety and National recognition not only from Professional Keyboardists but in obtaining National exposure to other Media; like TV, Concerts, etc. I think it is a Win Win situation if Yamaha implements the larger Keys on ALL of their Keyboard products. The only problem is convincing them of that reality.

Best regards,
Mike

Mike's right on the money. When you see a Triton on stage with a band....it's a pretty good bet that they are not utilizing all the capabilities in that unit, so why fret about having a built in rhythm unit that can be silenced during live play with a real band?

Isn't it funny that we say things like "real band" and everyone knows what we mean? It's odd that the term even needs to be used.
I see more and more signs for "Live Karaoke" around town ... what the hell is THAT?
What's the alternative?

Simple fact: Pro players need to be flexible, so why not have a solid, hi quality kb arranger that can do triple duty as a stage controller, a solo arranger, and a hotel room workstation?
Makes sense to me that they'd sell a gang of these. Make it right, and the price point won't even matter to the pros, because we won't need to have multiple pieces to accopmplish mutiple tasks.

Just some food for thought.
The 9000Pro is the closest thing to the ideal triple threat so far, but it's missing that one feature that many solo entertainers love - speakers. (The PSR9000 was an entirely different beast, so don't compare the 2 either.)

I am anxious to see if Korg may be the first to approach this territory with their "alledged" 61 key entry later this winter. Wait and see.

Yes, but I still think traditional keyboard players who play in bands and who don't need 'auto accompaniment' may still opt to purchase a standard 76 or 88 note synth kb over an arranger (even the Tyros), as aren't the Motif's sounds pretty much the same as what's included in the Tyros? Another factor which keyboard players, who appreciate a full deck (88 keys) yet don't need auto accompaniment will consider is that both the 76 & 88 note Motif are both substantially cheaper than the Tyros as well.

I approach arranger keyboard playing 'very differently' then playing the acoustic piano, or even a non arranger 76 note synthesizer so the .4mm (.19 inch) key width disparity imo 'pales' in comparison to the many other key feeling differences I need to compensate for when switching between a standard 88 note piano keyboard & 61 note arranger. I purposely chose the smaller synth action 61 note Tyros for (2nd only to its terrific sounds) its lightweight (27 lb) transportability. If key weight, key size, & keyboard octave range are critical to you then checkout the Technics Digital Ensemble Pianos which includes 88 large piano keys, fully weighted piano action, and auto accompaniment to boot. They sound terrific & allow you to play like you would a real piano, but I warn you that they're really heavy and defintely not very portable:
http://panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/technics_musical/ensembles.asp



Mike: I seriously doubt that the Tyros key size has anything to do with TV promotion (or lack of). The Korg PA80 and Ketron SD1 both have the (slightly) larger sized keys yet I don't see them promoted or played on TV either, yet the Motif6 (with the smaller keys) I have seen played on TV. Television promotion typically comes from paid advertisers. When you see a particular keyboard being played on stage, it's either the performer's personal instrumet of choice, or it's provided by the keyboard manufacterer (Yamaha) to promote (advertise) their product.



I'm actually booked to appear on stage for a televised live TV event (Annual SF Chinese New Year Celebration) in San Francisco in Feb 2004 so perhaps I'll be among one of those first to perform on TV with a Tyros.



I would 'never' attempt in pro performance to play a classical piano piece (written & arranged for piano) on a portable 61 note synth action keyboard. 61 note arrangers, 76 note synth keyboards, and traditional pianos each have their place. I recommend utilizing the appropriate instrument for a given job.

I'll agree that it would be nice if Yamaha decides to increase their portable arranger 'key width' to match the piano (standard?), but not doing so won't stop me from purchasing future Yamaha keyboards either, as I've grown to accept the fact (by adjust my playing technique) that arrangers & pianos are entirely different instruments and to be played differently as well. End of story (at least on my part).

Scott

Why not take the Tyros approach then and mount some speaker brackets onto a 9000 Pro or onto your keyboard stand if it's that important to you?

IMHO the Motif ES 8 has the best keys and keyboard action I've ever felt in a portable keyboard... but at 66lbs it ain't easy to call it portable! It's now possible for me to use my ultimate arranger rig on stage: the 9000 Pro and the Motif ES 8; but somebody'll have to be paying me very good indeed to use both because toting the Mo is a lot of work.

Even though the keys and action on my 9000 Pro are not what I have in my Motif ES 8 I have no problem using the 9000 Pro's keys on stage. Never even thought about it until this thread came up. I guess you could use the Motif ES 8 with something like a QY-700 (there's plenty of acreage on the top of the Mo for this) and some speaker brackets for Tyros-like monitors on the keyboard or the keyboard stand to get the best of all worlds. I'm big on the one-keyboard approach too and I don't want to burden myself too much so I'll be sticking with the 9000 Pro alone on stage for now.

Mounting speakers on an ALREADY heavy 9kpro defeats the purpose of a one piece wonderunit. If all three criteria cannot be met .... I will play this little bitty toy till something else pops up. Heavier, and silent is NOT an option.

In the today's real world, a keyboard which BOTH includes the speakers and/or larger and more (76 or 88) weighted keys, means lugging around a LOT more weight. Requiring a 'light weight' keyboard (like I do) means learning to accept certain trade offs which means the absence of some or all of the above features. Though both the Tyros & PSR2000 are lightweight (24 & 27 lbs respectively), my personal preference is to give up the built in internal speakers of the PSR2000/2100 in exchange for the much better & more responsive keyboard action on the Tyros. Uncle Dave, I believe you and I have similar desires in a 61 note keyboard. - Scott

Its bad enough having arranger keyboards decried on other forums by the synth players who look down their noses at them. Its ten times worse on this forum especially from someone who makes a living from these "little bitty toys".

My living comes from ME, my friend. No tool, or toy or instrument will ever get top billing in my act. My call to attention is to "better" the tools of my craft, not to shame anyone.

I agree Scott. If I had to make a choice and really wanted to have another Yamaha arranger, the next one would be a Tyros. I'd still rather have the speakers, but I can live without them. Poor key feel / response is another issue and I can't live with that.

I wish that the Tyros would have followed the design of the 9k pro, but then again somehow Yamaha determined that most of it's hi end arranger customers didn't need 76 keys or desire sampling or plug in board access. Actually I don't need the 76 keys either, not on my arranger anyway. Still, I've considered getting a Tyros somewhere down the road. Maybe instead I'll wait a year or two and see if something I like better from Yamaha comes along.

As far as the "itty bitty " toy remark. Sorry if saying this bothers anyone, but ya know what? That's how it feels in my hands too..

Does it do any good to complain and go on ? Maybe not.. I know it probably annoys some folks and I think Yamaha itself looks at it's arranger customers differently than it's Motif customer ( translated.. home player vs pro / studio / band player.. not that I agree with this.. just the way I thjink they look at it )

Then again, my friend Scott knows that sometimes if you make something enough of an issue someone will listen.. Rootless jazz chord recognition issue come to mind.. Right Scotty ?

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 10-15-2003).]

Get rid of the useless drum instrument icons in front of the keys and maybe the "Toy" instrument will look a little less like a toy..