i know i posted this a while ago, but i left it somehow behing me, so now i would like to put up these questions again:

1. if we consider the vocal track (as main track in a mix) having 100% level of volume, what is, in your oppinion, the other tracks leveling? (please just short answers, without much dB details and debates... )

2. how do YOU pan the instruments in a mix?

thanks for the replies to come!

This is a lot harder question than you think, Adi.

Is the vocal already compressed, or is it 'natural'?

Is the tune backing (and the vocal) very dynamic, or does it 'sit' at one level (roughly), most of the song?

I guess the easy answer (although it isn't easy to achieve!) is 'as long as the vocal never obscures the backing, and the backing never obscures the vocal, you've got it right'...

Once you have mixed the track, let your ears 'relax' for a few minutes, take a short break, make tea, whatever. Then re-listen to the track VERY QUIETLY. Can you still hear the vocal all the way through? Can you still hear the backing? Now listen to it at slightly higher than normal level. Do you hear the same balance?

If so, you are probably on the right track. Now get out a CD of similar kind of music. Listen to the vocal balance on the pro CD. Does it sound similar to your track? If so, you've got it.... If not, back to work!

Vocal compression is probably the key. Try a mild amount of gentle vocal compression (most software compressors have a few presets for vocals) and see if that helps 'sit' the vocal in the track better.

But there is no 'magic bullet'. Each vocal, each track, all have to be treated slightly differently. Just use a pro CD as a listening reference (in a similar style to what you are trying), and you will always have a good reference.....

As to 'pan', the general rules (although they CAN be broken, for special purposes) are drums in stereo, with the kick centered, width depends on the track. Bass center (or real close), lead vocal centered, and then spread the other instruments around to achieve a balance. If you have two acoustic guitars, pan them away from each other, same for two or more of anything else (B. Vocals, strings etc.)

Take a look at your meters... is one side higher than the other (on average)? You've probably got something that is prominent panned away from center. Swings around center are OK, but the whole track should be balanced around the center. Look to balance a loud sound with another loud sound on the other side. And try not to push the loudest sounds out to the 'corners'. Keep the most prominent stuff no more than half-way to the edges. This should help.

But once again, take a listen to pro CD's. Use them as a reference. You'll know when you've 'got it'!

Diki...
That was a very thoughtful response and a great piece of advice.
Eddie

diki,
as always, your answer is helpful and it pretty much confirm what i think too. actually, i tried this idea (putting the volume down all the way and then slowly rising it) and it does work! it gives a good idea about how loud the vocal is compared with the rest of the tracks.
now, what i am really interested in is also how the other tracks are related to eachother...
so, if vocal is 100%, let's say already processed, then, what is bass? (80-90%?) and what is bass drum? then the snare... then the hihats... then guitars, etc.

i very well understand how tricky all this is, and how dificult would be to give a right value without actually mixing a certain song, but for me is very important to have like a starting point. i tried many aproaches, and it seams that always something is too loud or too quiet, and the balance (volume levels) are somehow... unbalanced.
i am curious, raughly, what would be a good starting point...
what si your aproach on this?
and thanks for the answers, diki, i apreciate!

Once again, Adi, there is NO magic formula... Every track is different. What is the right ratio for one kick drum is totally different to another.

Often, in a mixing session, you tend to start with the drums and bass. Get the kick and bass to not fight each other (a little EQ on the bass may help, or if you want to get loud and proud(!), duck the bass a tad with the kick (if you can do side chaining - not much software can, though) or just carve a little out of the bass at the kick's fundamental frequency.

Now bring in your overheads (if you are using a real kit) and then the snare and toms. Once they all bed well, move on to the rest. It seems from your post that you already have a good grasp, but feel that after resting your ears and coming back to a project, you feel there are things to change. Well, welcome to my world! Unless a project HAS to be finished right away, I'll often shelf it for a day or two, work on another track or project, and then re-visit the first one. Usually, whatever is out of whack will be immediately apparent, and you can make a quick fix, re-export, and you are done!

Fortunately, mixing 'in the box' has made total recall very easy, so this works fine. If you are working out of the box, just try some different mixes when you export; Vocals up 3-4db, vocals down 3-4db, bass up 3db, down 3db, drums up and down, etc..

Now you have a variety of mixes that, upon listening to after a good long ear-break, the best one will quickly become apparent.

But once again, without ALWAYS working with the same drum kit, bass sound and most of the instruments the same, there is NO 'ratio' approach that will work. A pick bass is totally different to finger-style, is totally different from slap and popping. A jazz kit mixes differently to a rock kit. Rinse and repeat.

Sorry this is not the answer you want, but IMO the truth....

well, you're definitely right! and i believe i really need a good pair of monitors now... this is actually an issue for me because i use some old pour speakers, so i am pretty sure my mixing work is affected essentially by this.
in my mix, it seems the bass is always too strong, and there is not enough definition to each instrument. i think i should play a little bit more with different "space" settings, as pan, eq and delay/reverb...
again, thank you for your replies diki! they are useful!

Learn about delay/reverb last. Work on volume, EQ, and pan first. Trust me; I've heard way too many sloppy mixes where effects only served to muddy things up with the hope of bringing cohesiveness to a horrible mix. True, effects used properly will warm things up and seem to connect the mix together, but a mix without effects can sound very good, while a mix with poor EQ and volume adjustment will always sound bad.

One thing to consider when you're trying to give each instrument definition; does the instrument need more volume, or just different EQ? If you can't hear the acoustic guitar, maybe it doesn't need more volume, just a little more sparkle on the top end. That's wy the question can't be answered with ratios and proportions like in the way you're asking it.

[This message has been edited by FAEbGBD (edited 05-08-2007).]

thanks FAEbGBD,

i think this is a very nice place to visit, and i found this values: http://www.tweakheadz.com/perfect_mix.html

what do you think?