I received my first shipment today and just unpacked the first one.
The new voices are just incredible! I also love the new "information button" which tells you how to play the new articulated voices and how to use the footpedals to trigger different sounds within the articulated sounds.
The new keyboard feels really good.
I have to go and try this out more right now!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Just a note......
I love the way the new speaker brackets just push into the two holes so you don't have to use a screw driver anymore!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

So George what's the leading keyboard, does the Tyros 2 take the trophy

George:

you got email........Pose

Both the Tyros 2 and the Roland G70 Version2 have me fired up. I wish the Tyros had 76 keys and I would like there to be more on board styles on the G70. But both are my top choices right now. I also continue to think the Korg PA1X series is really good, but I prefer the 128 note polyphony on both the Tyros and the G70.
I was so busy shipping out my first Tyros 2's today that I only had 30 minutes to play. I will need to put a hard drive in this weekend. I really like that Yamaha has included two USB device slots, one on the front and one in the rear.
Many styles and sounds remain from the Tyros 1 but the new ones are wonderful.
Please Yamaha............make a 76 key model. Actually, I had 2 marketing managers from the US and 2 from Japan in my store this week and had an opportunity to ask for a 76 note model and also discussed future models to be developed. I'm excited that they took lots of notes and listened to everything I had to offer up. A PSR3000 with 76 keys is another keyboard I talked up alot.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

I hope you will push hard for the DGX500 keyfeel on the new PSR3000 successors. Such a joy to play and many would probably concur with this. Plus the 76 keys without adding more weight if possible.

And please give us a decent PIANO sound, better bass and brass sounds.

George it is interesting you rate the Tyros2 and the G70 as the top keyboards..I guess I will have to wait a little bit longer to try them...or "Caifornia here I come"...Do you re-inburst travel cost?...If we buy!!

Reason: it's because he 'sells' them BOTH. - Scott

Scott, George sells Genesys,Ketron, and Korg[all 3 are better than the original Tyros]..

Fran: How come you state your opionions as FACT? You really need to preface them as merely your own personal view. I know there are plenty of people here (including myself) who adamantly DISAGREE with your above assertion.

Fran, I realize you may think your remarks merely humorously flipant, but yhe kind of assertions you make, and often of keyboards you've never actually auditioned yourself before (such as the G70), only serve to CONFUSE newer members here who rely on the judgement of us senior members here. Just my take on this of course. - Scott

Scott,
Your comment that I "sell" keyboards I recommended in my store is dead wrong! If I'm reading your comment as you meant it, and correct me if I'm wrong, you suggest I rated the Yamaha Tyros2 and the Roland G70 version 2 as my two favorite models right now, because I can generate sales from saying so.
Those who know me, and talk to me here at my store, know that I am an opinionated person.
Because I have all these keybaords available to me every day, and I get to see new inovations and upgrades all the time, I change sometimes from month to month or season to season with what my favorite keyboards might be.
If you remember, when the first G70 was shown to me, I was less than enthusiastic regarding it's sounds and use of effects. Now, with Version2 released, I can actually state that this is one of my favorite boards.
I don't usually post negatives towards fellow synthzone members, but in this case it seems to me that I am receiving a "low blow" from you stating that the "reason" I am picking these two keyboards is "because he "sells" them both".
I am saying it again.........For what they both offer, the Tyros2 and the Roland G70 are my top two picks, with the Korg PA1XPRO just a slight notch behind (if Korg had 4 fill ins and 128 note polyphony instead of 62) it would rank right up there tied with the other 2.

George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Come on George! You certainly must have KNOWN I was ONLY joking. Didn't you SEE the BIG grin and wink accompanying my reply?


[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-29-2005).]

I meant wink and 'thumbs UP' in my reply.

Scott better get his T2 soon,
he seems on edge
he's getting spanked quite often lately
Oh My! hehehe

Scott, I don't use the smiles when I say something...I don't need to back pedal from my comments..
Naturally , anything i say , are my opinions...that usually become fact...
When I commented about the Genesys, PAix and the SD1...it was a matter of fact...I have played them...with the final comment , being my opinion[the only one that counts, when it is something I will or will not use].

I am going out on a limb here, but it just may be possible in the end ..the G70 or Tyros2 may be my next board...with the big zinger for me[if the Tyros 2 drums still play the wrong map in GM mode]...Oops forgot, the 61 keys won't work for me[same reason I sold the VA-7].

As for you young SZ people..always check things out for yourselves..Not all of the seniors here know what they are talking about....

Hi Donny & Fran too , yep, I believe you're right. I must be suffering from Tyros2 'withdrawal' symptoms, especially now seeing/hearing so many of my SZ buds playing theirs already. Man, do I need a Tyros2 fix really bad. Hope DanO can come to the rescue soon. I'm just relieved this isn't the bird flu. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-29-2005).]

Scott's post was intended as a good-natured ribbing and was not "a low blow". It would be a shame if any new members misread Scott's post and thought George was not a good source of keyboards and advice. I have been reading George Kaye's posts for about six years now, and have always found them to be well informed and objective. He has performed a service to all of us by communicating our wishes to the manufacturers. I wish he were located closer to Silicon Valley.

[This message has been edited by Clif Anderson (edited 10-30-2005).]

Hmmmmmmm.......

I think my clarification quickly dispelled any mis-interpretated conclusions. I just thought that, because I consider George, Fran, Donny, and you too Clif , longstanding fraternity bros here, SIX years , that you guys would have clearly understood, especially with the BIG GRIN smiley that I included, that I was 'merely joking'. Apparently I was wrong. This just highlights my point earlier to Fran, how messageboard postings aren't necesarily able to accurately convey what the writer intended. We all (including myself) need to choose our words here more carefully I suppose. Watching out 4 the eggshells . - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-29-2005).]

I know George Kaye about 8 years he is very good source on keyboards and advice with his help we changed Yamaha memory supplyer on psr 9000 & pro simm problem scale problem
so on...

There's so many people on here spitting feathers, I thought some had already caught the bird flu .

I've shown the Tyros 2 today to some of the best players I have coming into my store and all they can say is......How Much? Everyone loves it!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

PLEASE FELLOWS....I just returned and boy have I missed a lot....let us all just step back, take a deep breath and remember that we are all family here and should respect everyone's opinion.....
Tony Rome

What counts here : The Tyros 2 is worth EVERY PENNY !!

btw Some people are complaining about the GM mode drums ? .... What is the use of an extra octave for people that use SMF's while 'playing' ?

It would be a waste of money/technology to purchase a T2 for SMF's because the power of T2 is styles/sounds of an very high level.

George:
At the demo-session at my dealer saturday, the same questions popped up : WOW.... I want it...what's the price ?

I don't think everyone is getting to each other. I think Scott and Fran are goading each other into arguments because A) Scott is a Tyros evangelist B) Fran wants to be, but won't go over to the dark side. Thus, we have antagonism by both of these otherwise splendid individuals.

Boy, what the hell are we going to do if someone else decides to come out with a new killer keyboard? Oye Vey!

Keyboard arsenal of Synthzone member that just hit the lottery.............
(In no particular order)
PA1X pro
Tyros 2
G70
MidJay
Ketron
SD1
Kn7000
PSR3000
PA80, PA50
G1000
G800
OMB + A30,A33,A70,A90,CME,Fatar,etc.
WK3700
etc., etc.

chas

Thank you George for talking to the Yamaha Reps and nudging them to consider making a 76 note Tyros2. A PSR 3000 76 note Board would be a God send also for those wanting 76 keys but not necessarily all the bells and whistles that the Tyros2 has plus its higher price tag.

You have the power George! Or at least a hefty amount of influence when it comes to bartering with Yamaha's elite.

I do hope they consider your suggestions.

Another thing everyone on the Forum is curious about is the amount of WAV ROM in the Tyros2; except those who have already purchased the Tyros2 site unseen apparently. Some have said 300Mb but there is nothing in concrete yet, even on Yamaha's numerous worldwide web sites.

George I know you can pull this one off. Please inform the troops how much ammunition the Tyros2 really has when you get confirmation.

Thanks again George for your thoughtful and as always unbiased opinions on various new Keyboards that traverse your Store that you have the pleasure of playing firsthand before most of us can.

Best regards,
Mike

I've now had my Tyros 2 for a week and it's blown me away. However I must disagree with Roel that using it for SMFs is a waste. For live use I use SMFs for the most part and the superb sound quality and the ease with which I can change the original SMF to sound like a live band is stunning. I managed to make most of the edits I wanted to, without looking at the manual, it's very intuitive. One of the HUGE advantages for me is the ability to display chord symbols in the notation screen. This gives me an endless repertoire and means I can play along with /over songs I have never played before immediately. I use PSRUTI to derive the chords (although sometimes it gets it very wrong)and XF tools to correct the mistakes. Both programmes are free on the net. I only play out live about 6 times a year and there is no way I could remember all the songs I need to playing so infrequently. (My singing partner knows the words to about 300 songs and the tunes of probably 1000's - being able to display words on a monitor for him is also very helpful for requests)
etc.) The very accessable 'channel on/off' button means I can turn off the piano part or any other part I want to play' on the fly very easily. I have used Roland Keyboards for the last 20 years and this is massively more intuitive. I looked, played and listened to the G70 and the Tyros is superior in every way to my mind except the 76 keys. I get around this by using a Korg O1W pro as a second (lower) keyboard. By setting this to Global Transmit on Midi Ch1 it mirrors the Tyros and I can mix in some of the (still) superb sounds of this classic Korg. The front USB socket on the Tyros 2 is excellent and obviates the need for a hard drive unless your into audio recording. My 0.5GB stick (£30) has over a 1000 SMFs on it and still has over 400MB left!) As an arranger I found my Roland VA76 virtually unusable in comparison to the Tyros 2 and will now start concentrating again on this aspect of my playing because of the incredible quality of the backings - it's just so much fun!

Hi George,
just out of interest, how does it compare in price to Tyros 1 when it first came out.
ie recomended retail price?

In Australia Tyros, 1 retailed for just over $7,000 AUD ( at that stage our dollar was only worth half of the USA dollar. Now it's gone up & is worth 3/4's of a dollar.

Just be interesting to see what they reail for here , and whether the rise of our dollar is reflected in the tyros 2 price.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by George Kaye:
[B]

I'm sorry but I won't be able to give you the size of the wave rom. Yamaha is keeping this information to themselves for the time being. Because of their ability to compress their samples as most companys do and do it with such great results, they say the size in actual numbers, may not be understood by most and therefore this figure will not be given out. Needless to say, their sample library is quite good!
I suggested that with 1 GB of user sample memory, Yamaha could give their customers some pretty amazing additional sample sounds to load into the Tyros 2

George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Ok George, I'm sensing now, from your LACK of response to my apologetic explaination above, that you somehow 'still feel' I dealt you a 'low blow'. I'm really DISAPPOINTED that you aren't able to see that my remark merely good natured ribbing, with no ill intention. Are you perhaps upset (resentful) with me for not having bought my Tyros from you? Like Eric Bott, synthzone member dealer, DanO simply presented us with a great offer we couldn't refuse.

I only hope you don't think, because you share valuable knowledge with us here (as many other members do as well) that we are somehow indebted to purchase from you. - Scott

Scott, come on!!! that sounds like another low blow to me!!

Fran. I think I made it CLEAR from the 'get go' that my initial remark was not ill intended, and no different than the kind of humor you engage in. I'm now only 'trying to figure out 'why' George has decided to give me the silent treatment. If you guys want to continue to twist around my intentions, then I guess it's time for me to LEAVE this forum. - Scott

I only hope you don't think, because you share valuable knowledge with us here (as many other members do as well) that we are somehow indebted to purchase from you. - Scott


Scott how would you read this if the roles were reversed..You have been out of character for a while now...maybe it's time to return to the easy going Scott..

Yeah right !!! man Scott you beter get the T2 soon before you bust a blood vessle dude!! ....Chill my friend.......
you'll get it soon & then you can be in 7th heaven !!

Scott, I got over your comments days ago. No additonal response was needed. From your initial post I was upset that you were stating that I have only the desire to sell something as a priority, and I gave you my answer. You told me you were only kidding and I accepted that. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

Now, you bring up that maybe I'm mad because you bought your keyboard at another dealer. Again, you are the one bringing this up. I've seen you mention the other dealer in many posts, and I've not said a word. Please.......drop all this! I really don't wish to discuss this. It's not what this forum is all about.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

"Are you perhaps upset (resentful) with me for not having bought my Tyros from you? Like Eric Bott, synthzone member dealer, DanO simply presented us with a great offer we couldn't refuse.

I only hope you don't think, because you share valuable knowledge with us here (as many other members do as well) that we are somehow indebted to purchase from you. - Scott"

Scott, I just re-read your thread and I decided to reply to your question to me.....
You ask if I'm mad at you for not buying your Tyros from me because "Dan O. made you an offer you can't refuse".....You didn't even give me an opportunity to quote you a price and next you write: "that we are somehow indebted to purchase from you. - Scott". This is the True Scott Yee coming out with your sarcasim which you write off as "humor....and not meaning anything" . It hurts my feeling that you can even type a sentence like this. Please, Scott, think before you type........
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

George, I have a question about the G70..
Can the vocalizer be controlled via MIDI..
Either an external controller or it's own keys.

I need to be able to set the vocoder to receive on several song tracks at the same time..for example track 3,4,and 5 to channel 5 [the vocoder midi channel].

I do this with my G1000 and an external vocalizer, and I won't compromise this set up..
If the vocalizer can be controlled by midi, maybe I can turn the local off and run a midi cable from the in to the out...Over the last twenty years I have found many ways to accommodate my ideas this way with Roland products..

If this works it sure can put me over the top and decide to get a G70, maybe sight unseen..

Fran,
I'm at home now. I will check this out tomorrow at my store. If I don't find the answer, I'll call someone at Roland and find out. My go to guy for Arranger products is out of the office until the end of the week but I should be able to find out.
If a midi file can have a track for vocal, lie the tune 1000 songs and the vocal harmonizer is responding, doesn't this mean that the harmonizer is being controlled via midi? Maybe I don't understand your full need here. Explain a little more if you don't mind.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

George , with my G1000 ..I use Tune1000 Harmony Box[vocalizer]..It receives on channel 5..
I than set up my MIDI sets to transmit the song tracks , as example all the tracks from B1- B16..to B5..Now all data will go to the vocalizer, creating different harmonies..
I will set up 8 different set ups[MIDI sets] at a touch of a button.. I can vary the octaves of the transmitted channel and turn on or off the channels I want to send data to the Harmony Box.


Now I would like to find out if this can be done internally with the G70..Even if I have to use the midi set up I posted earlier..

George kaye have u sold keyboards to international customers? If yes can u ship a tyros2 to south africa..i asked a few weeks ago but u must have missed my thread. Fran go ahead and purchase g70 unseen : )

My dealer is interested and can deliver a T2 next week. Please visit www.tyros2.nl and contact Henk Oostendorp

Roel please drop me an email. Its africacurios_@hotmail.com thanks

Rolandfan, it sure wouldn't be the first keyboard I purchased sight unseen..I know I purchased hundreds of boards this way...Do you doubt me?

BTW, I was a dealer for twenty years..and I sure did have to eat many keyboards[lost money, even at dealer cost]..

That is why respect dealers like George, that can run a successful business year after year..and I wish the same thing for DanO..

I'm sorry but I only sell Yamaha keyboards here in the USA. I believe Yamaha has a policy of not allowing the sale of keyboards from one country to another. In January of 2005, Yamaha stopped the sale of Yamaha products from Europe to the USA. Dealers could be fined thousands of dollars for doing this.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Thanks for trying George. I suspected as much to be honest. If Yamaha gave the Tyros2 300Mb of WAV ROM then no doubt they would have plastered that information on all of their web sites if only for the reason that they could show the world that the Tyros2 was king of the WAV ROM figures. The current (and still reigning) champ is the Roland G70 at 192Mb.

If Yamaha is compressing the Samples on the Tyros2 to such a degree then possibly the actual WAV ROM on the Tyros2 is "less" than the Tyros?? If that is the case then posting the WAV ROM figures on their sites could be a negative influence to potential buyers and dare I say an embarrassment to the Company itself.

As we know, the more that audio data is compressed such as .Wav samples etc., the greater is the loss in quality of that audio data. "Uncompressed" .Wav or other type of audio samples offer the greatest quality of course.

It is possible that perhaps Yamaha has come up with a way that retains a greater degree of quality in the compressing process so they may be able to compress their samples to a greater degree without a further significant amount of quality loss or possibly none at all compared to the previous method.

I wonder if Roland's samples are compressed on the G70? If they are, perhaps they are not near to the degree that Yamaha compresses theirs?? >> In theory LESS compression = greater quality. Depending of course on the actual quality of the original {uncompressed} sample. In other words a great quality sample that has been compressed can oftentimes be better than an average quality sample that is uncompressed.

Still, compression in itself is not the optimal way to create and retain the best quality possible in sound reproduction which leaves me to wonder why Yamaha is compressing the Tyros2 samples so much?? Even perhaps 2 to 4 times more than the original Tyros? Or possibly even more??

PS: Since Steve Deming no longer posts here (most likely because of strict orders from his superiors) or any other Yamaha employee for that matter, the truth may be forever hidden from us (unless of a leak maybe ) as to the WAV ROM question on the Tyros2.

But from what some have said they really do not hear a great difference between Tyros1 and Tyros2 except perhaps regarding the SA Voices. I for one think the SA Voices sound a notch up from the Tyros but there are only 42 of them so you don't have a overwhelming amount to choose from (variety wise) and in certain songs or situations there may be no corresponding SA voice that would fit in with the song so you're left to choose from one of the other Panel or XG voices. But since Yamaha greatly increased the amount of Sweet! Live! and Cool! voices on the Tyros2 it may or may not be a problem.

Best regards,
Mike

Fran i have no doubts because u have owned all the different equipment that the g70 is based upon and u liked them. So in a way its not sight unseen. Thanks for the reply george. Perhaps one reason is because of the voltage difference. Korg seems to be the only one of the big 3 that has no restriction

Fran,
I called Roland today and I'm not sure I got the final answer to your harmonizer questions. My good source is still on vacation and so I spoke with a keyboard tech support guy. He seems to think that the internal vocal harmonizer can only see which ever one track you select to have the vocal harmonizer read and not be able to see incoming midi messages from an external source. However, I'm not sure he truly understood what I was asking, because I'm not sure I understood myself. Please call and talk to Jan Vogul at Roland maybe at the end of the week. He is the one man there that really knows the arranger products in tech support. If you need their phone number I can give it to you.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Thanks George, when you get time can you email me the best phone number to reach the tech...Fran

I installed a 60 GB hard drive into the Tyros 2 today and I've created 2 songs using the hard disk recorder. First, I selected an XG song I received from Yamaha of Take Me Home Country Road, using the vocal harmonizer and I entered the record mode, hit start on the song playback and sang along with the midi file. When complete, I hit stop, then play and really amazing audio quality was playing back. I also downloaded using a USB cable several hundreds of styles and songs into the hard drive.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Fran,
don't know if I'm late, but YES you can control G-70 harmonizer via midi.
In Menu->Midi->Edit->System->Page7 you can select the midi ch used to control Vocal Harmonizer.

If the G70 harmonizer can be controlled via midi, can you assign multiple channels to the vocalizer, or are we limited to a single channel?

Fran,
In looking at the midi parameters for the vocal harmonizer, there is a midi in channel and a midi out channel. Each can be from 1 -16 but "all" is not a choice.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566

George - What I think Fran is asking is "does the G70 harmoniser have a multi-midi mode like the TC-Helicon standalone harmonisers do.

This mode reads midi info on 3 different midi channels so that you can generate pre-recorded harmonies rather that genetrated ones from you left hand chord. There are professional midi files that are available for this mode (from mid-spot for eg).

I myself are more interested in the chordal mode which is where you first select a harmonic key (such as G or Am) this results in a more accurate two part harmony (moving thirds).

There is another mode on the TC which lets you play the harmony you want on a single channel and I used to set the right hand to generate on a separate channel just for this type of harmony

Ketron and Yamaha only use the left hand to determine harmony but I'd be interested to know if the PAX or G70 uses any of the other methods.

Regards - Keith