I really regret the loss of members here on the "zone". There are on-going problems with interperonal communications in general, and understanding what some of these are is helpful in at least explaining why some of the recent situations have developed.

I teach Interpersonal Communications at the University level at least one semester a year and also teach organizational communications and advise organizations on communications issues.

According to academic research, up to 17% of the population has cognitive problems affecting the individual's capacity to think and act rationally. As much as 9% of the population of the United States is in therapy
and/or taking medications for a variety of cognitive problems and other mental health issues.

While working through disagreements, etc. is admirable, when dealing with people with
cognitive problems, sometimes, you have to just walk away.

When you add the anonymity of and easy access to the web, the problems that surface are multiplied.

Sometimes the only thing that works is to feel sorry for the people with cognitive problems and just walk away. Continuing discussions with irrational, impaired people just compounds the irritation and creates resentment, hurt feelings, etc.

The vast majority of the folks on the zone are GREAT, but it is logical to assume that every once in a while, a person or persons not able to deal rationally with others will surface.

It is my wish that we all attempt to share information and experience in a respectful,
sharing manner. But, if we suspect that an individual involved is irrational or impaired, let's not let that negate why we're all here. A mutual love of music and a spirit of brotherhood and sharing is just too important.

We're important to each other, and need to be thankful for the chance to share music and life...TOGETHER!

You folks are really important to me (even you "Yammie" players-JUST KIDDING)!

Russ "old softy" Lay

Thanks Russ for a down to earth statement on this ongoing problem in ALL Forums.
I , for one, am longer in the tooth than most of us here and I believe that the years have taught me to recognise the fellows you describe. The result is that I can accept the occasional hiccups in relations we encounter on all Forums and accept that it is all part of our human failings.
I thank my stars that I am able to live a more pleasant life because of this understanding.
I also have a personal belief that we can all meet our maker with head held high if we make sure that while we are here, we are confident that our conscience is clear whenever we make a move or statement which affects our fellows around us.
Peace and Understanding.
cheers
Eddie Johnson

------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

Russ,
your views and expertise on the matter are much appreciated.

I would also like to note that an important area of the problem lies in that the main form of communication with other members is written language, devoid of any other means of normal everyday communication and expressiveness (hand gestures, facial expressions, body language in general), save of the occasional "smilies". This alone, requires a certain level of command of the language itself, for an individual to effectively overcome the absence of the aforementioned means of expression, thus rendering some people incapable to communicate effectively. This mainly affects people from different countries, like myself, or people that are not used in this form of communication.

There are also cultural differences here as well, people from other countries with different customs or habits, even people from the US that are raised in different parts of the country, and last but not least, the age difference, evident in some of the discussions here.

In my short (less than 2 years) presence to this forum, I have seen members quitting (declaring that they will leave the forum for a reason, mainly because they had a clash with other members), and I think some members just quietly slipped away (maybe pursuing other interests, or not interested to announce their intention to quit). New members come in all the time, and the forum shows a "self-healing" capacity, somehow rejecting those that are either "unfit" (put in quotes in lack of a proper word), or unable to contribute in any useful way.

As time passes, some of us will eventually stop contributing to, or even reading the forum, for various reasons. I can understand that, I see it as a kind of life cycle. We are born, we live, we eventually die. But having to quit the forum abruptly, because someone is not behaving as he/she should, constitutes loss of life, a form of murder. Which is unacceptable, at least for me.

To conclude, I guess it is in our (mostly mature, at least in age) hands, to try AND succeed not to shoot each other. Drunken brawls are acceptable, at least in the Bar

Please (all of you, especially ianmcnll), have in mind that the aove are not in any way refer to Squeak's departure, are just my thoughts.

Just my 2 cents, some pebbles, my grandma's gold tooth, and some rusty brain cells in work,
Theodore

How right both of you are! None of us communicates in a vaccume. Factor in inflections, facial expressions, intonation, cultural and geographic differences and more for an undertanding of the total communication process.

We'll thought out and expressed, guys!


Russ

All the opinions above are appreciated, they have value. Let me add my simplicity.

I have only my opinion and that's all I have. Anything beyond that says something about me and not the receiver.

I value my opinion and I VALUE YOURS.

When I begin to feel perfection in myself I know it is a beginning of a problem.

John C.



[This message has been edited by bruno123 (edited 01-19-2006).]

Russ -
Sounds like you've met my boss

zuki

I have been a member and leader of a religious discussion group for a number of years in which
at times debate could get rather heated and feelings would be hurt.
I mulled over the problem for some time and came to this solution, that sometimes you have to agree to disagree and move on.
After the group embraced this solution we have not had any prolems in this regard.

Cousin Ken

Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere soon

MY opinions is....that is a load of horse pucky.

Overanalytical BS.

People just need to act like humans and not some molly coddled little babies, and the world would be a better place.

But we live in a "kinder, gentler" society where everyone is afraid of offending someone. We are a society of wimps and pansies.

Men can't be men, they have to be some sort of girlified mutants.

In another 50 years, we'll all be spending our days giving each other hugs, and individual thought and opinion will be frowned upon.

You have a great point rdnzl,
men should be men.

Please remember this phrase next time someone disagrees with you in an argument and instead of saying "Well I think you are very wrong in the subject, I really don't think I should continue discussing with you" like a wimp, takes the manly way, grabs a baseball bat, and without muttering a word, cracks your fingers in pieces (or burns your house down, or shoots your dog, or whatever).

That means that (at least for a while, if ever) you won't have the ability to play keyboards (I suppose you log here because you do play and love keyboards) AND the ability to write posts. The gray matter between your ears will still work of course, so you will have enough time to admire how manly your opponent was, instead of a pansie.

Nothing personal,
Theodore, a wimp

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 01-21-2006).]

In another 50 years, we'll all be spending our days giving each other hugs, and individual thought and opinion will be frowned upon.

I don't know about you, but I'll be dead long before that. If not, I hope to be shot in the back of the head by a jealous husband while leaping out a second story window with my pants down around my ankles, and his 19-year-old wife screaming "Don't leave me!" We all have our fantasies.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

People who choose their words based on how they think they will be perceived, are phony and shallow. I respect people who say what's on their mind, and not color it gray for the politically correct masses.

Even though New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin is an idiot, I respect him for speaking his mind. Speaking your mind exposes who you are. It breaks away the costume of fakery that many hide behind.

p.s. Trident, being a man, doesn't mean being a criminal.



[This message has been edited by rdnzl (edited 01-21-2006).]

Plus, no medication needed....at our age, a 19-year-old is God's Viagra.

chas

Well, RDNZL, you have the right to your opinion, even if you're saying that a PHd in organizational communication and a 30 year teaching and consulting career is "BS".

I happen to believe that research and application of communication principles is valuable on many levels.

But, what does a "girly man" like me know?

Russ

..... way to take the 'high road' Russ ... but I would have expected nothing less ...


t.



[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 01-21-2006).]

Piled Higher and Deeper!

Just kidding. Your degree is an admirable thing.

But...overanalysis of humanity is taking the "human" out of it, and trying to make us all into clones.

So Rdnzl, you believe everyone should no longer think before they speak? People should no longer wonder or care about their impact on others, as long as they get their point across? I would absolutely hate that.

In my opinion many people choose their words and actions not out of some fear of how they will be perceived, but to share their opinions or make points while showing empathy and respect to whom they are communicating.

By the way, I must object to 'Girlified'. In my opinion being able to empathise with fellow humans is a huge strength.

Carrie


[This message has been edited by Carrie-uk (edited 01-22-2006).]

People need to treat people how they, themselves want to be treated. Pretty simple. Quit worrying about how you will be perceived, and just act natural, not all fake and disguised.

Some people assemble their thoughts into candy coated little packages, before saying them. That is just as fake as a three dollar bill.

My use of the word girlified is not the best description of what I meant, the word pussified is a better choice. We have become a society of pussies. It's one thing to be kinder and gentler, it's another to be a clone of what some scholars think we should be. We are losing our individuality, slowly, but surely.......

Our society overanalyzes everything. Many things are really not so complicated.

But I'm sure most of you think I am the type of person discussed by the PhD's original post. That's OK.

(edited for spelin)

[This message has been edited by rdnzl (edited 01-22-2006).]

i sort of agree with rdnzl...our societies are becoming more afraid to say what they think,its not a matter of thinking before you speak, but rather saying what you ARE thinking, not what is expected to be heard or felt by the other person...russ,as a person with a phd in this area, surely you would agree that honesty and transparency in communication is far better than lies, or feigning compassion or empathy?
i personally believe that people can accept honesty of thought, they may not like it, but i think they appreciate it and respect the person that delivers it, as long as it is not in an arrogant or agressive tone....further, i believe the world would not have the problems it has if people and nations would be open with each other, it is through open and honest bi-lateral communication that people learn about each others differences...it shows up your weaknesses to the other person, who then thinks "hey this person isnt all that much different to me"...if everyone TRULY treats everyone else the way they liked to be treated, and not just short term because they want something, and follow that philosophy as a way of life, i reckon this would be a pretty good place to be..
dennis

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/let+it+all+hang+out

Well, at least we'd still have opposable thumbs to differentiate us from the lower animals, and complex language (even if perhaps too freely used by some) to distinguish us from other primates. (Note my use of "smilies/emoticons".)

--Barry


[This message has been edited by quietDIN (edited 01-22-2006).]

Folks, there is a refreshing quality to people who "put it all right out there".

Increasingly, success is defined by almost subversive deception. It's kind of "nice to your face, and then stabs in the back",

That is often much more damaging than direct
confrontation. Think corporate politics .
Sadly, the political climate at institutions of higher learning is darker and more devious than in corporate America , and that just hurts the kids.

Rdnzl, treating others as you would like o be treated is an admirable concept. But, sometimes, you win the battle and lose the war.

Everyone needs to find a position that works for them. My points were:

1. Some people have perception problems (actually, oover 15% of the population).

2. At some point, it's not worth the effort to interact these people. We just need to move on.

3. Squeak will be missed.

This exchange was far less confrontational than it first appeared, with valid points from EVERY contributor. I'd just leave it at that.

Russ