i dont get it. When Dom suggested that he play a midi file using gm sounds and everyone else posted doing he same , didnt they all sound different and wasnt the opinion of the listener as to which sounded best subjective ? The test i am suggesting wil be just as subjective however ....

It is the proposition of wersi and mediastaion that the ability to use "he best sounds" vst pluggins etc in the one instrument in aranger styles "should" sound better than a "closed " system with just the manufacturers sounds . Surely this is a great way to demonstrate that even if the listeners opinion is subjective, when is someones taste in sound any other way ? At least this test would give the "open system" generation of instruments to show what they are talking about rather than " talk" what they are talking about . Lets see how easy it is to load up vst drums,basses,guitars and strings in one style and then switch to another fluidly without hiccups, lets see how seamlessley it handles OTS changes in a performance setting. Anyone can wait 10 minutes and load up a stunning piano sample but how well does the sound technology interact with the hardware/software ? Come on Dom and Abacus. I have been dieing to hear what can actually be done with an open system arranger compared to a proprietory based instrument. Are you guys up for it ?

"Also, you may not be aware of this but a lot of the scores in films these days are not played by orchestras, but are done in the studio with a keyboard and computer, using VST instruments and samples from various manufactures."


Thats exactly my point Bill. They are produced , mixed and recorded in a studio by professional sound engineers to ensure that the instruments compliment each other and dont clash.My concern ( which has not been allayed yet) is that so far everytime someone mentions VST instruments on this sie, they place a demo of a professionally done sample by the manufacturer on the site and then say "this is what it would or could sound like on my arranger keyboard " but not once yet have i actually heard an arranger song or clip using vst pluggins played on this open style instrument and my mind keeps wondering why ?

And if anyone has actually used an arranger with multiple vst plugins in the styles and posted on here , then i must have missed it and would like to be pointed in the right direction to hear it.

Spalding
For loading and setup the VST is really easy under MS. Now here is late, but tomorrow i will take one small video for you guys, where you see booting the MS.
I start to play the sounds, styles, Vst and Giga, WITHOUT use the PS2 Mouse and keyboard, like a normally embedded keyboard.
Before the video, maybe you will understand the system how is working under the MS.

I touch the Kontakt Icon in the touchpanel and after 4-5 seconds the Kontakt2 VST is UP. Then I just load the sound library that i like. http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/gui/kontakt2.png
I press the key JACK and it will shown me the all Jack connection available. In this case i see the Kontakt in the writable clients: http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/gui/kontakt3.png
I touch the icon Kontakt and then the icon Arranger in the Readable clients, then on bottom left give the key: CONNECT. I touch it and the Midi arranger will automatically connected to the Kontakt.
Midi connection now are ready to work.

Now I have to connect the Kontakt Audio outs to the MS outputs: http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/gui/kontakt4.png
you see there right side the Kontakt connected to the MS outputs, I touch the two icons and then i press CONNECT.
Now the Kontakt is ready to send the Audio digital data to the MS outputs.

I start one style and the midi will sent to the kontakt too.
Of course you have first to loading in Kontakt the GM library for the all 16 channels, like a normally sampler.

Another example then is to open new VST.
I touch in the touchpannel the VST.dll file and will run UP: http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/gui/kontakt5.png
in this example you will see that i have opened:
Organ VST B4, 2 Linuxsampler GIGA, VST synth Miffi, VST MinimogueVA, VST synth Moppeltron.
I have only to touch the Readable VST to the Writable MS OUTS and then: Connect.
The MS Midirouter have more 4 Midi AUX, where you can connect the VST and then you can switch just by pressing one MS key.

AFTER you have understand how is working Jack Audio connection kit, you will be able to make ANY type of digital connections, Audio and MIDI of course. IN to Out to ANY VST, Engine, connectors... ALL
So..more powerfull of this sytem you can find under MAC OSX, because they use the Linux Jack connection kit too. http://jackaudio.org/ http://qjackctl.sourceforge.net/qjackctl-ss1.html

Just wait till tomorrow, then you will see in the video and How is easy to remap/edit one sound style too.

What I don’t understand is why is there an assumption that there is more work with getting different VSTs to sound right in a style and that professional arranger musicians just don’t have the skills to work with VSTs like the multitude of other professional electronic musicians?

When you create a new style or when you revoice a style on a closed keyboard system, the user still has to have a concept of sound balancing and how to make the style sound good. Even for live playing, when you set-up registrations, you have to make sure that you choose the right melody voice and that the volume, panning, effects and eq are just right. Why is it any different with VSTs on an open keyboard system?
The rules of good electronic musicianship apply both for open and close keyboard systems. The major difference between the 2 systems is that one gives you life long ongoing possibilities and enjoyment while the other gives you 2 years of pleasure.


If there is any problem it is probably not with the manufacturer of the open keyboard but probably the user.

Even on closed keyboard systems, the issue comes up with the sample loading feature. The Korg pa1x, Gem Genesys and the Yamaha Tyros all can load samples. I don’t know about the pa1x and the Tyros 2 but on the Genesys the samples can be used in songs and styles. If the outcome does not sound good, I can not blame the manufacturer of the keyboard I can only blame myself for not choosing the right samples, or if I purchase samples, the makers of the samples. And if it sounds good it is not because of the manufacturer but because of my electronic musical abilities. The manufacturer should be credited with having such a feature and for making the operation of the feature easy.


I am not trying to start an argument but just trying to understand the assumption that VSTs are harder for professional everyday electronic musicians to work with. All professional electronic musicians know what type of sounds they like to play and work with, and purchase them accordingly.
Lots of professional electronic musicians are using VSTs and sample sounds and doing so with ease. So why do professional arranger electronic musicians get the rap for being inferior musicians and not being able to use today’s music technology?

i hear what you are saying and i am certainly not implying that arranger keyboard players have less technical ability than anyone else. What i am saying is that theorising about what can possibly be done on an instrument is of no practical use to a potential customer ( i.e me !) if so far noone has DEMONSTRATED what can be done ! you cant sell a product based upon what you think it can do. You have to sell it on what it does. Here is a prime oportunity for Mediastation and Wersi to market the product properly by demonstrating what it can do instead of just talking about it! If it can do what the manufacturer says it can do, then simply do it ! that puts an end to all doubt to any potential users of the product.
I dont know if its just me but i think that the long threads going back and forth about the strengths/weaknesses of these products could have been settled a long time ago by simply demonstrating what the instrument is capble of instead of these pointles drawn out discusions. If its he instrument of the future, then i will considr it in the future but if it can do it all now.......see what i mean ?

Hello Spalding
Here’s an English guy who’s been using them for the last couple of years or more, they feature on his recordings Pavane and Aquarius, http://www.danielwatt.com/ also I notice there is a festival in Bewdley on the 4th July, you could give them a ring to see if they will let you in to have a listen. (It may be a closed festival though)
BTW Many Wersi Artists use Akai samples and VSTs both live and on recordings, (And have done so for many years) but you don’t notice because they integrate fully.
As I mentioned in a previous post, when my friend comes back off holiday I will see if I can get him to do some demos on his Scala using Akai samples and VSTs. Also check out to see if other Wersi artists are in your area, so that you can here the instruments close up. (Just do a quick search on the web)
Hope this helps.

Bill

Let's go back to the question asked in the subject of the thread:

The "sesibilita" and the "liberi" mp3's sound good, or is it just me?

I hadn't had the time to go AB using Hypersonic, but the sound pretty close to what I would expect fornm the Hypersonic GM module which to my ears is pretty good.
Opinions?

I can tell you that I'm doing with VST’s on MS.

I use them in simply way, but every time is all included as Mr. Dominik told you in one script (VST, sound in VST, connection to right VST-JACK and link to arranger style). This is faster way. Only one touch and you can play song with all prepared on your keyboard.

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 06-30-2006).]

OOPS! Wrong thread!

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 07-04-2006).]