For those who are playing out (gigging, entertaining), would you do it only for the fun/passion of entertaining, but without the big (OK, medium) $$$? With all the costs (time and money), it's as enormous investment... and life's short.

I've often wondered about this, so here's the question:

Asuming there was a reasonable alternative for paying the bills, would you entertain, *doing only the fun gigs of your choice*, if the only $ compensation was to cover costs?

[This message has been edited by GlennT (edited 01-27-2004).]

To me there is nothing more satisfying then playing music on stage every day for a living.....all my gigs are fun because I make them that way....its been my dream come true since I was 7 yrs old....
and Im 51 now!!So I am quite thankful that I am able to make people happy do what I love.

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www.donnypesce.com



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-27-2004).]

Hi,
Having neither the expertise or the talent to play out live I have always envied those that can and do. I don't just mean the bog standard... 'oh I wish I could do that' kind of thing I mean a real frustrated longing to get up there and perform.

When I see a good performer, live or on TV or whatever, my stomach gets knotted up. I cannot believe that there can be any feeling on earth like quite a crowd showing their appreciation and shouting for more. WOW that must be a rush.

Maybe I have a romantic notion of how it is or how it feels but if I had the ability to make people that happy even if it were just for an hour, and probably more importantly (if I am honest) make them love me for what I just did, then no amount of cash, material benefit or fame would matter in the slightest.

I know all about the hard slog, night in and night out, setting up, pulling apart when it's all over, being up there when it is the last place you need to be. I know all that because of the times the pro's on here have recounted their experiences. BUT surely for that five minutes when your audience love you and show it you must feel like Kings??? For me that would make any amount of slog OK! I would do it all for free just for that feeling.

Most of you know that my chosen career is nursing. There have been times, (and I am really not blowing my own trumpet because the same could be said of all nurses), when I have actually saved another human beings life. Most people would think wow! That must be great. Whilst I agree that it does give tremendous job satisfaction when stuff like that happens my point is that any-one could do it! Given the appropriate training any of you could do my job with just the same competence.

However you could train me for the next twenty years and I would not have the competence to get on stage and work that magic. Now what a job to have! Not everyone can do it but I sure envy those who can.
Best wishes
Tony

The vast majority of my income is from playing out and I rarely do any freebies. I agree to do one a year for a group that hires me monthly all year long...but it is an annual benefit for a good cause and I am happy to do it.

The problem with freebies is, if you do it for one, you can expect more requests for freebies and you are less likely to get the respect you would as a paid entertainer.

If I was just starting out, I would make concessions...but once established, I don't recommend doing much gratis work, unless it is a thank you for a very good employer or a benefit that you believe in.

Eddie

I remember the thrill when my d\Dad would take me to Music Masters in Southampton
( Over on THIS side of the pond, Tony ! )
for something as simple as guitar pics when I was in the 6th grade. I also remember the joy when playing in Mike Revak's garage for the first time. The playing has always been a thing of joy ..... the business, well that's another story !

This is what I tell my clients when I need to justify fees or hours ....

"I only charge to set up and tear down - I sing for free !"
That includes grabbing a mic and stepping up to a stand. It's all good, but time is money $$$$$$$, and business is business.

It's just another fun job, and I've had lots of them. Performing in front of an audience is as much fun as it gets. I will only do a freebee if it an audition that last 20 minutes or so. Beyond that, it's out of the question--even if it's for a good, charitable cause. Keep in mind that most charities, even the small ones, have someone at the top who is making big bucks, often more in a single year than any of us will make in an intire lifetime. I'll play for free if the CEO works for free!

This reminds me of an story told to me be a retired police officer.

There were three ladies of the evening arrested on night while working a local pub. They were hauled into night court before the magistrate and he said "Ladies, you are all charged with prostitution--what is your plea?" The first spoke right up and said "Not guilty your honor."

"Not Guilty" said the judge. "You were caught red handed by an undercover policeman, money exchanged hands, what do you mean you're not guilty? If you're not a prostitute, what do you do for a living?"

"I'm a cocktail waitress, that's why I was in the bar." she replied.

The judge smiled, looked at the second lady and said "I suppose you're a cocktail waitress as well."

"Absolutely!" she said with a smile.

"And how about you young lady? I suppose you are also a cocktail waitress."

"Oh no your honor--not at all. I'm a prostitute and that's my only source of income." said the third woman.

"Well" said the judge, "It not often that we have someone in my court that admits to being in this profession. Tell me young lady, with AIDS and STDs scaring people away, how can you make a living as a prostitute?"

Smiling she replied "It would be one hell of a lot easier if it were not for all those damned cocktail waitresses!"

Same holds true in the music biz. Too many cocktail waitresses playing for free. Sure makes it difficult for full time performers to make a decent living.

Cheers,

Gary

Performing for free has always been an issue since outside of entertainment people do not get approached to work for free. At a lecture I attended many years ago (well not too many) one entertainer explained that what you get from doing free shows is more free shows. He explained some methods that I use today.
I will not perform for free if any other parties that are hired are being paid. That would include DJs, etc.
If it is for a charity I explain that I will charge them the full amount and then when they pay me I will write them a check for the same amount. I can then write it off on my taxes as a donation and they can write it off as an expense (win-win).
I do have other sources of income which does help but I tell people that the 9-5 job is really a side job.
Wherever I go I am an entertainer and my family knows it and put up with me. I guess I would be doing it anywhere since I get a rush by making people enjoy life through my shows.

- Brian

Actually, the intent of my post was not to learn how often one, as a professional musician, would work for free. But how much the passion of entertaining has diminished over time... considering all the negatives in the business. Thus the question, would you do it if not for the good $$$?

I agree, it's hard to match the reward, appreciation, and pure rush of performing live... and getting paid to boot! I think it's great and I love it. BUT... just to play the devil's advocate...

1. When you add up all the frustration and time spent - buying, learning, replacing, reparing equipment - learning new material - making contacts, contracts and CDs... it's not much above minimum wage?!

2. Having to deal with drunks and sometimes idiot owners or managers, if you're doing the club gigs.

3. The hopeless encounter with the wife and/or girlfriend who simply can't understand why you have to spend so much time on music!

Again, I'm pro music and live performing, and these observations are only for the sake of argument. They can be small pototoes or major hurdles, depending on one's priorities and tolerance. But they are the reality of the music business.

Then again, I know guys who spend more time on golf than most of us do on music. There's a herd of them in my back yard every day. They're paying big bucks for all their frustration... and I know I'm having more fun than most of them.

when the passion dies....its time to move on.

I make a living at music, and I love it. I have a very relaxed life. I usually do a nursing home in the morning for an hour, come home for lunch and then do an afternoon gig for an hour. I do an occasional evening, and half of my weekends have an afternoon and/or morning gig.

But another focus of my life is spirituality, and I must say that I know people who sweep floors and work at gas stations that are every bit or more happy than I am, because while they are sweeping they are also doing their meditation mantra and are blissed out.

I spent some time in India, and I met some people who were very poor and had very menial jobs, but seemed very happy - not that there isn't a lot of misery in India too.

Then you find a lot of musicians who are doing drugs and have disasterous relationships.

I think that one's profession is an important factor in determining happiness, but one's inner state can override everything. With the right state of mind, a pauper can be in paradise, and with the wrong state of mind, a king can be in hell.

So if you can't do what you enjoy, enjoy what you do.

Beakybird