I am planning on buying a USB controller to work with a Dell XP computer running Sonar. What would you recommend?

I need 49 keys with MIDI IN/OUT and a USB port.

I am looking at these 3 models:

1. Edirol PCR-M50
http://tinyurl.com/dk2ay

2. M-Audio MK-449C
http://tinyurl.com/bzjl9

3. Novation ReMOTE 49
http://tinyurl.com/9zv5f

The Novation ReMOTE comes with channel aftertouch and an extra X/Y touchpad.

All have templates that map the buttons, sliders, knobs, wheels and pedals to Sonar and all other popular Sequencers and Soft Synths.

I am looking for an easy way to edit the gigantic collection of MIDI files and Yamaha Styles I got on-line.

Tapas

Hi,

For what it's worth, I have the 61 note version of the M-Audio MK, and the key action feels very cheap and toy-like. In retrospect, I wish I'd saved a few more pennies to get a controller with a firmer, synth style semi-weighted design. (I've read that both of the other boards you mention have superior keybeds, but haven't tried them.)

But if you just need a midi editing tool, the 449C will certainly do the job. Plus, it has dedicated pitch and mod wheels instead of a joystick...

Michael

[This message has been edited by Quasar (edited 10-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Quasar (edited 10-08-2005).]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for you word of advise and personal experience on the M-Audio MK-461C 61 Key USB/MIDI controller.

Key action is a very important issue. If they feel toy-like, I am staying away from the M-Audio MK series.

You are correct, the Edirol PCR-M30 is the newer version of the PCR-30 with better key action. Edirol has posted dozens of templates on its download site. There is even one for the Garritan Personal Orchestra which I use. This unit looks promising.

Probably the Novation ReMOTE has the best synth key feel with aftertouch. Price is double! It also sports a sharp white on blue backlit 2x16 character LCD.

I have been researching some more 49 key USB controllers:

4. M-Audio Radium 49
http://tinyurl.com/d9v27

5. Emu Xboard 49
http://tinyurl.com/8bycu

6. Korg Kontrol 49
http://tinyurl.com/dmusy

7. Fatar StudioLogic VMK149
http://tinyurl.com/82kyv

8. CME UF5
http://tinyurl.com/bzgd4

The Fatar and CME brands offers hammer action within a 49 key layout. The first of its kind.

Well, I will be spending this holiday weekend scouring all the music shops in my area to get a first hand feel for these controllers and order one next week.

I would appreciate any feedback on these models.

Regards,

Tapas

Tapas, checkout this RELATED THREAD .

I've been hearing GOOD things about CME USB keyboard controllers. Fully weighted piano (hammer-action) keys, and at BARGAIN (made in China) prices .

CME Website

Scott

Hi Scott,

Thanks for pointing me to the CME news link. Now I am getting advise from the Pro!
The 49 key UF5 with semi-weighted keys is an outstanding bargain for $199.

Just came back from Guitar Center and Sam Ash. I checked out a few. No one carries the Novation brand. Must be special ordered.

I loved the feel of the Emu Xboard 49 Synth Action Keys. Simply marvelous. Guitar Center is selling them this weekend for $169. That’s an unbeatable deal. The Emu key action trounces the M-Audio series.

I liked the semi-weighted Roland A37 as well. Great MIDI controller, but lacks USB.

The Korg Kontrol 49 caught my attention too. The key feel is identical to the Korg Triton Le. It is a tad too expensive ($399).

The Edirol PCR-M50 is priced right. AudioMIDI.com is offering them for $219 with free shipping:
http://tinyurl.com/e4gbh

Having 49 keys is perfect for a desktop controller. 61 keys are too wide to fit when you add in the computer keyboard and mouse. The depth is also a factor. The Edirol PCR-M50 is sleek, whereas the Korg and Novation takes up more depth.

The Korg has LCD readouts over each of the 8 banks of sliders and knobs that change color – red/yellow/green plus has that convenient matrix of trigger pads and a vector joystick.

Decisions, decisions!

Tapas

PS. Scott: I am enjoying all your late breaking news on the Tyros2. Keep them coming!

First I have ever heard of CME. Thank you Scott. The fully-weighted 88 scares me a lttle after reading the following, but it just shows yet again how subjective and personal this kind of decision is:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/CME/

I had an M Audio radium 61. Great functionality, horrible plastic feeling keys and board. A37 feels fine to me, but I too would like a USB version.

I haven't tried the Korg Kontrol yet, but 49 keys isn't enough for me anyway, except when I'm controlling and analog synth or emulation of one. The microkorg controller was very functional, but the minikeys killed it for me.

Let us know what you decide to get and how you like it please.

AJ

Thanks Michael for pointing me to the CME reviews. I am striking this off my list! Proper USB implementation is a tricky thing. You must have well designed drivers. I am not trusting the CME brand. Too new.

Roland and Korg are the best when it comes to proper MIDI protocols, system exclusive data transfers and good drivers. Roland always provides solid drivers that work well with XP and Sonar. Roland, XP and Sonar are very tightly integrated.

I downloaded the Korg Kontrol Owner’s Manual. This thing is a control freaks dream machine. Endless possibilities. AJ, you would have been very happy if you had the full size key version.

I have two more days to finalize my research. I will let you guys know next week.

Thanks DNJ. I read all the PCR info on the Roland site, downloaded the PC editor and the relevant control map templates.

I found that I have a compatible USB Host Controller. This takes away the guess work.

Looks like it is going to be the PCR-M50 for me!

Tapas

Tapas,

I look forward to following up on your search and letting us know how your choice works out.

Good luck and success!

BTW, your thread is going to cost me hard-earned money, because it has forced me to admit that I'm unhappy with the 461C, and caused me to start web browsing for controllers again.

The frustrating thing about the M-Audio is that it's perfect in every functional way EXCEPT for the key feel, but ultimately that one flaw is critical. Oh well...

Cheers,
Michael

Hi,

My search for a USB controller keyboard is over. The Edirol PCR-M50 49 key USB controller keyboard is the winner. I am delighted with this new toy.

The first and foremost thing that grabs your attention is the excellent synth action on this modified version. It is a delight to play on these keys. If your local store does not stock the PCR-M50, try out the Roland Fantom X6. This has the same key action. I preferred this key action compared to the Korg Kontrol.

I had a chance to compare the Novation ReMOTE 49 to the PCR-M50. Both have excellent key feel. The PCR-M50 has a sleeker design which makes it a better fit on my small desktop. The rotary knobs and sliders are ultra smooth. At $219, the PCR-M50 is priced right. This is the best bang for the buck USB controller.

Check out the PCR-M50 in action in my home setup:
http://www.land.state.az.us/alris/transfers/html/images/desktop.jpg


The whole idea originated after reading Rikki's numerous posts and positive experiences on the Yahoo Group named onemanbandgroup. I was curious to try out for myself if a software arranger would work as well as a hardware arranger. I downloaded the demos of One Man Band version 8.0 and Busker version 2.0. I was impressed and ordered them from Jos Maas who is a wonderful guy and brilliant software programmer.

I am using an Edirol SD-90 Studio Canvas as my sound source. The GM/GS MIDI files sound perfect when played back through this and doubles as an XGlite sound module for OneManBand.

I found this nifty BTC 6100 Ultraslim USB keyboard for triggering the voice/style changes for OneManBand. This keyboard has a small footprint and fits well next to the PCR-M50.

I am using the Contour ShuttleXpress to act as a transport for Sonar. The PCR-M50 works as an excellent control surface for Sonar. For those who are interested in using this, here are the details of how I got it setup. Both the SD-90 and PCR-M50 are connected to my XP desktop through USB cables.

The PCR-M50 does not need any external power. It is powered by the USB cable.


I made these setting in Sonar:

MIDI Inputs

1:EDIROL PCR1
1:EDIROL PCR2


MIDI Outputs

EDIROL SD-90 PART A
1:EDIROL PCR


To make the PCR-M50 behave as a control surface I had
to make these settings:

Device: Cakewalk Generic Surface

In Port:
1:EDIROL PCR2

Out Port:
1:EDIROL PCR

I made a Custom Preset and configured the assignable controls
on the PCR-M50 as follows:

Rotary Knobs:
R1, R2, R3, R4 = Pan for tracks 1, 2, 3, 4
R5, R6, R7, R8 = Chorus (Aux Send 1 Level) for tracks 1, 2, 3, 4


Sliders:
S1, S2, S3, S4 = Volume for tracks 1, 2, 3, 4
S5, S6, S7, S8 = Reverb (Aux Send 2 level) for tracks 1, 2, 3, 4

Buttons:
B1, B2, B3, B4 = Solo for tracks 1, 2, 3, 4
B5 = Bank Move Left
B6 = Bank Move Right

L1 = Stop
L2 = Play
L3 = Forward


The SD-90 and PCR-M50 came with its own dedicated PC Editors. I am pleased to report that the XP drivers and PC Editors installed without a hitch. All of the following devices and programs are working like a seamless tool:

Edirol SD-90
Edirol PCR-M50
Sonar
OneManBand 8.0
Busker 2.0
Contour ShuttleXpress
BTC 6100 Ultraslim keyboard

The advantage of using a hardware sound module is that there is absolutely no latency when using OMB. The chord recognition and note triggering is lightening fast. It feels like playing a hardware arranger. I have just begun to enjoy the thousands of Yamaha PSR styles.

My next step will be to try out the Sound Fonts explained in full details by Frank, Rikki et-all on this thread:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/011663.html


Many thanks to Frank Rosenthal, Rikki King and Jos Maas for opening up a whole new world of Softsynths, SoundFonts and Software Arrangers. I am thrilled with the results so far.

Cheers,

Tapas

PS: Michael - The PCR-M50 key-action is a big jump over the M-Audio 461C. You will be very happy.

Tapas, you will never look back....the world of music is yours to shape.

The only midi controller keyboard that I have really checked out in person was the Edirol. I can tell you the key action is ideal.

Scott Langholff

Hi Tapas,
it's great to hear that you got yourself all sorted out.
Your PCR-M50 sounds interesting. I'm still using my Clavinova as my controller as I mainly play piano for melody, but I had been considering a small usb keyboard for my laptop for portability when away from home.
It's one I'll definately check out.

If I'm not mistaken, you already have an Audigy soundcard? which will make using soundfonts quite simple.
I'm using an Audigy 2 NX external USB card for my laptop and it sounds quite good.
It's not as flexible as my software setup for fonts ,consisting of Forte, ASIO4all, midiyoke etc etc
but using audigy for the fonts is simpler.

Interesting to note, the SD90 has an xglite sound setup?? as well as gs/gm. That should make the drums in the psr styles more compatible than if it only had gm/gs drum sounds.

One great thing about OMB is that you can have more than one midi out source and you can choose which channel plays what.
For instance I set midi channel 1 to USB
( clavinova ) for my piano melody sound.
Channels 10 to 16 ( style channels) I set individually to either usb( clavinova) or to my soundfont device. I don't appear to get latency either.

Welcome to the world of software arrangers, it's amazing what can be done with OMB.

Actually I've got Frank & AJ to thank for introducing me to the world of softsynths.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tapas:
[B]Hi,


I am using an Edirol SD-90 Studio Canvas as my sound source. The GM/GS MIDI files sound perfect when played back through this and doubles as an XGlite sound module for OneManBand.

Hi Rikki,

You will be very happy with the Edirol PCR-M50 if you are looking for a cheap, portable and small USB controller with a professional key feel. This is exactly like the Roland Fantom X6 without the aftertouch.

I will try out the sound fonts on my Audigy2 soundcard.

I became a member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDPCR/
This group deals with the Edirol PCR series of keyboards.

I also joined http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/HOMESEQUENCERS/
This group has some good info on soundfonts and how to use them with sequencers.
The owner, Ian Bennett is a great guy. He has written some extensive tutorials for free download.

The Edirol SD-90 Studio Canvas is the flagship of Roland's SoundCanvas lineup. Roland went all the way into making a self-contained unit that combines a stellar GM/GM2/GS sound set with a 2x2 MIDI interface, a 24-bit/48KHz audio interface and a USB link to a host computer.

Because it is all hardware, there is zero latency. Plus there is zero noise. The unit is detached from the internals of the PC. They included XGlite support. XG MIDI files sound with the proper voices, but the effects are not quite right. XG drums sound ok.

I am getting myself a Yamaha MU100 XG sound module to get full XG compatibility. The OMB styles derived from the Yamaha PSR series will play back better through this.

You are correct. OMB in version 8.0 allows you to hook up a different sound module to every MIDI track.

I think the SD-90 with its GM2/GS sound set and the MU100 with its XG sound set will have my bases covered. Then I can explore the added realism through specialized sound fonts and software samples. I am very pleased with the Garritan Personal Orchestra Collection.

Frank and AJ are the true pioneers. Thanks to this newsgroup, we are all benefiting from their research and experimentation. There is so much to learn and explore!

Regards,

Tapas

Tapas & Rikki you are well on your way to a fun musical journey.....you can't lose!!!

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/pcrm80.html

Ive been looking at this model Edirol PCR M80

suppposed to be improved keyfeel? anyone using one.........plus I like the black color

Dnj, I have not tested this controller keyboard but it looks good re: the spec. I have heard from various sources that the M-Audio keyboards are not so good when it comes to their velocity responses (soft vs hard). It presents a problem with percussive type instruments, e.g., piano.

Frank....Im trying also to find a store that stocks them too we'll ses soon.......what have you tried in a 61 key controller?

Dnj, when it comes to controller keyboards (keyboards without effects and instruments), I prefer the Roland keyboards, namely the A37. I have tried some of the Roland/Edirol as well (don't remember the model numbers) and they will get the job done. The best is to test them with the module or computer with which you are going to use such instruments.

DNJ you are planning the right approach. Your customers are going to be impressed on how such a minimalist approach sounds so good.

Tapas, that looks like a very well thought-out and well-designed setup. Thanks for describing it in such complete detail. The pic looked cool, too. (What do you do with all those monitors?)

Yes,the M50, M80, A37 or something similarly semi-weighted is on the wish list, but that must wait a little as I do have my P120 for purcussive type instruments, and small budget = need to prioritize. I hope just after Xmas.

If you're serious about SF2s etc., and editing sounds extensively, you might want to consider Kontakt. It's relatively expensive, but the sonic features are mind blowing. My upgrade from V1.5x to 2 is in the mail, and I've heard the included sound library, scripting and "purge" feature (to save RAM) alone are worth the upgrade.

Frank, Dnj, et al, I can vouch for the fact that the M-Audio- at least the 461c- is weak in terms of velocity response. You get several presets, but only the default seems playable at all, and you seem to go from pp to ff without much room to dabble in the midrange. But how do you test a board "with the module or computer with which you are going to use such instruments?" Is it considered OK etiquette to buy HW online with a 30 day money back, "try" and simply return it if it's not to your liking? I know I've never done anything like that, and wouldn't feel right doing so. But as there's no suitable music store where I live, I necessarily go by reviews and the opinions of others.

Regards,

Michael

PS Edit: Tapas: GPO is outstanding, do you think? Best $250 I ever spent. One reason I'm waiting on the new controller is to get JABB
with that money instead.






[This message has been edited by Quasar (edited 10-21-2005).]

Hi Michael,

Those 4 Dell 1901FP 19 inch flat panel monitors come in real handy during my daytime job as a GIS programmer! You can open up so many windows side by side and test your code. Here is a mapping application I designed to show various thematic layers in Arizona:
http://sco.az.gov/website/parcels

If you hit the red [Help] button on the top right, you will find my detailed step by step guide that walks you through all the functions.

I understand your dilemma in buying a controller keyboard sight unseen. I had the same problem too. So I ordered it from audioMIDI.com. They are a great on-line music retailer. I have returned things in the past without a single question. They refunded 100% of the amount the very same day. They did not even deduct their own shipping costs.

The PCR-M50 or the PCR-M80 is a sure deal. I now have a first hand experience of its key feel and have compared that to the Novation ReMOTE and the Korg Kontrol. I think it excels both. Roland has nailed the synth action on this model. The sliders are smooth as butter. You can safely order this unit.

I was lucky to meet Gary Garritan, President of GPO at the CES show earlier this January in Las Vegas. His demo blew me away and I purchased that on the spot. Ofcourse, Gary made me a sweet deal too!

I have read a lot of rave reviews on Kontakt. Please let us know when you install the upgrade. Maybe I will follow suit and try this out after you post your review.

Regards,

Tapas