I'm just starting to use Midi programs in a live situation and was wondering if anyone would comment on the advantages of using your keyboard over a laptop or mini disc? Or which method you would consider the best? I'm a little familiar with keyboard and lap top, but mini disc is new to me and one of the members of the group has worked has indicated that this was the best method.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Ed

I started using midi files with a Roland XP50 and had good success mainly because the XP could read on the fly. The negative side was I could only keep 30 or so songs on disk.
I switched to a laptop and now run the sounds thru an SC88 Sound Canvas. I can connect with a parallel midi interface or use the 'to host' connection. Or I can use the internal sound card (GS Wavetable) and run it straight to the amp. All songs are neatly arranged in a library and all songs are easily available and easily loaded. I have not had any experience with USB in this area. I think the laptop is the greatest because it frees up the keyboard and is very versatile; I have a few music programs loaded and can share the files easily. Also, having my files with me gives me confidence that I can play the files somehow; the LT give me many playing options.
I also have a minidisk (MZ-N707), but don't use it for midi's. I have seen some people use the MD to play what is actually a recording of a midi file that is loaded on mini. It's fast and efficient, if you're an organized person - no editing, no midi connections, very little risk of error, but songs must be organized by disk and you'll have to change disks per song, set, whatever... Most of these people use a larger deck with easier navigation controls - my MD is compact and navigation takes a few button pushes. You'll have to play all your midi files and record them into the MD, then organize them. I guess you could do the same with CD-R, except you couldn't rearrange, erase or add tracks as easily; but it would work, especially as a back-up system.
Whichever way you choose to play your files, be sure to have a back-up plan. As soon as you think you've devised THE WAY, you'll experience a scary event that makes you rethink everything. My files are on HD, 3.5 floppy and CD, plus on two other computers.

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Cass Pawlowski - Motown
PSR2000, SC88, Cakewalk

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 05-28-2003).]

I've had good luck with both mini discs and CD-Rs, using them to play backing tracks while soloing on guitar. I take both along in case of problems encountered. I use shelf-top models with the "spin dial", where you can easily find the appropriate track number (if not playing the tunes in order). In contrast to those who play live dance music, entertainment shows, etc. where the pressure is on to keep things moving, my venues are generally laid-back listening settings only. Here, I can play about anything. Even still, I try to mix-up the styles, tempos, and keys so that the tunes don't all sound the same. So far, everything has worked great. The few times I tried playing live with a computer, I had nothing but crashes and problems. The mini disc/CD-R route seems more reliable and comfortable in my applications.

Mini Disc is an obsolete technology originally created by Sony Corp. The Mini Disc is inferior in sound quality when compared to CD/DAT. Sony Corp. has permanently shelved Mini Disc research and development and it has basically become a White Elephant in the technology arena. Mini Disc recordable media cannot create lossless audio reproduction due to its compression techniques unlike CD/DAT which does not degrade in quality when reproduced, ie., "copied". Mini Disc's are of different dimension than standard Floppy Disk's so you could not use it/them in a standard Floppy Disk Drive. Hence you would be unable to use it/them in conjunction with your Keyboards Floppy Disk Drive.

Laptop computers can play Midi's of course but unless it has a Professional quality Sound Card plus unless they are played through a Professional quality Soft Synth in most cases, eg., Yamaha XG Soft Synths or Roland Sound Canvas, etc., the Midi's will not sound all that good when played back imo. And that is the case even if your Sound System, ie., "Speakers", etc. are top notch.

Playing Midi's through the Keyboard on the other hand; eg., PSR 2000/9000/Tyros/Other Brands, etc., will sound absolutely fabulous if the Midi's are of Professional quality to start with. I would not hesitate to use Midi's in a Live situation with and through my PSR 2000's FDD.

Note: CD's are an alternate avenue to use in a Live situation. The advantages of using CD's is that CD's are Audio files whereas Midi's are just Data Instructions used to trigger Midi events on a Midi Controller Device such as your Keyboard. The recorded audio on a CD/MP3 can reproduce the human voice and all other naturally occuring sound within the ears receivable sound spectrum, ie., (approx. 20Hz-20kHz). A Midi file for instance cannot reproduce Vocals, ie., (the authentic Human Voice) which I am sure you are aware of although a Mini Disc can but there again the Mini Disc is a dead horse that was buried a while back. Your best bet imo is using Midi Files through your Keyboard's FDD or using audio CD/MP3/DAT's.
PS: Please be aware also that to get good Midi sound reproduction through a Keyboard, the Keyboards Sound Engine should be top notch also. You can have the best Professional Midi File made but if your Keyboards Sound Engine is lackluster, so will also be the sound of the Midi file played through it because the Midi File uses the Keyboards Voices/Instruments/Sounds for playback. And that will be the case, ie., "lackluster", regardless of other sound parameters. Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Mike

Yeah, I guess the MD/CD route would eliminate a lot of connections and possible hassles. I guess I'm not organized or ambitious enough to record all my files (over 900)onto MD. I still mute melody tracks live and correct instrument assignments live, mainly 'cuz I'm too lazy to go back and change them for good ("don't change that original file" phobia). I guess I could start with my smaller main playlist and see how thing go. Anything to make things on stage simpler. Geez, pretty soon we'll be replaced by DJs - no, DJs will never replace a live band; yeah, right
Cass

I agree totally with Mike. I store midi backing tracks on the hard drive of my KN6500 and play them using the keyboard instrument samples, which are usually superior to the midi instruments, through my keyboard sound system. Going through your keyboard first will definitely give you the best sounds.

Peter

Another thing not mentioned here - this is an arranger forum so many people here use keyboard arrangers, which allow live improvisation. This helps relieve the boredom that comes from playing the same songs the same way night after night. Midi itself allows you to do manyt hings that pre-recorded music does not: midi can control harmonizers, mixers, effects, lights and more. I have a laptop program that can create a live graphics show that is triggered by the midi output of my live performance. Also live midi means the tempo of the song can be changed at any time as well as the mix and even the instruments should you choose. It's a very flexible format.

Pro, you're right on with your comments, as usual. But, I see a lot of non-keyboard guys using MDs and CDs to play midi files. Maybe they don't play Kbd and have somone or some way to record these for them. Anyway, it works for them and even though I play an arranger, I'm glad this topic came through the arranger forum.

MIKE - I disagree that your keyboard is the best place to play midi files. A laptop and a good sound source (soft synth, module, add'l keyboard, etc.) free up your main keyboard for live playing. My experience with playing MIDI on my keyboard is that the board's functions are compromised. It is more difficult to access sounds to play while the file is playing. Boy, can you ever cause a commotion when your file gets sidetracked by an errant button push. So, I support using a LT or similar source (second keyboard?)along with a quality alternate sound source. If you have to play MIDIs from your arranger, then I suggest a second keyboard for playing while the files play thru your arranger. IMHO.

Question for PETER - don't the MDs and CDs use different file formats? I know my MD records in something called ATRACS3, which is not the same as a .wav or mp3 format. Geez, how many ways will we have to store the same information?

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 05-28-2003).]

First of all I would like to thank everyone for their comments and I hope more people will join in.
It is quite confusing, but it seems that the quality of sound should be the first concern. Flexibility second and lastly the convience of setup. Of course, the money issue is a determining factor in all of the above. Which brings me to my second question; What would the cost of the various performance techiques be i.e. how much is a good mini disc., cd player, etc.
I should add that I am presently running a PSR9000, thru a Mackie mixer with SR450 powered speakers and Mackie subwoofers. I also have a Motif Keyboard that I have not started gigging with yet, but it could be brought into the mix.

Thanks again for all of your comments and I'm looking forward to hearing more of your advice.

Altho Minidisc is assumed to be at the bottom of the sound quality chain, I have heard it used as backup sounding excellent. Ed, with your PA gear, whichever format you use, if done properly, will sound very good.

I would choose one that allows you to incorporate audio as well as midi. That would be MD, CD, or Mp3 from either your laptop or one of the newer Mp3 players. There are a few forum members using these players. On the other hand, UD and Donny will be quick to point out that nothing beats the convenience and ease of use of laptop mp3s.