Ever since I started reading this forum, everyone has made comments about the excessive weight of the 9000. Approx 50 lbs.

Well I decided to gut a 9000 and see what it would weigh if it were similarly equiped as the Tyros. I removed the speakers and cabinets,(lots of weight right there)the cabinets are quite oversized for what is in there. I hope the plan was to provide better bass response with a large empty wooden cabinet, I personally think they might have tried a different avenue. Anyway I'm digressing. I also removed the heavy amplifier and the accompaning transformer to power the darn speaker system. I removed all unecessary (my opinion as to whether it was necessary ot not)metal cabinetry housing the other required transformers and voila...! A very light PSR 9000 that you can now pack under one arm and .....OH WAIT! Did you want to be able to hear the darn thing? Well I better bring my PA, Speakers, Tripods, Snake, Amp Stand and whatever else a fellow needs for gig'n. I managed to get the 9000 down to a whopping 30 lbs. Still not a Tyros. If thats what a fellow was all concerned about, (weight that is) this is a viable alternative to spending another large chunk of change. Oh well...

Here's to experimenting. It's what keeps driving us to have the latest and greatest!

Regards,

Dennis Almond

Interesting. So how much total weight are we carting around to do a gig ? My 9000 Pro is 45 lbs and I am currently using a Motion Sound KP-200s stereo keyboard amplifier at 55 lbs so that's 100 lbs. With stand, bench and cables I'm probably somewhere around 150 lbs.

Well, I guess that is at the heart of this issue. People don't like how heavy the 9000 is. I agree that the thing is heavy. However, too heavy is purely speculative. Depending on what it is you plan on using the 9000 for the weight may be very light considering what you would have to carry along with aahhh... say a TYROS. So it all really comes down to a matter of what you perceive to be heavy. Like I said earlier. It really isn't to hard to shave twenty pounds off of the 9000. I have all the pictures documenting the break down of the various components inside the unit. I think almost anybody could accomplish the project, if having a lighter 9000 was a high priority in their life.

Regards,

Dennis Almond

When did musician's become whimps? People, you are complaining about a 50lb keyboard, not to long ago keyboardist where carrying around B3's, CP70's with anvil cases, keyboards like the emulator, synclaviar, Organs like the VOX, Rhodes, wurly's... Geez, people get a grip... 50lbs is what some people carry around just in cables. Or am I all wet?

Man... Thats what I'm talkin' bout!
Remember the days of getting your buddy to help with that wonderful suitcase piano. Rhodes was the thing you had to have if you were anybody. I'm pretty sure that weighed a little more than 50 pounds. I remember there was no way I was carrying that thing anywhere by myself. Sure the 9000 is heavier than the 2000 or the 740 or the Tyros or a host of other keyboards. However, when it was produced it was herald as a great tool for musicians allowing them a multitude of advanced features. I guess it's the case of, things never being good enough. My goodness we clamour over a keyboard that weighs 50 pounds while we drag around our speakers that weigh almost double that. My Yamaha 15" with 12" horns must be in the neighborhood of 80 pounds. Try putting those on tripods by yourself.
Anyway... this business or hobby or ministry or whatever your doing it for is not the instrument of thin air. Remember our roots are in the Heavy acoustic piano realm. You want light weight, get a harmonica or a kazoo. Thats where I weigh in. IMHO

Regards,

Dennis Almond

Very True statement....if needed there are many "Lift Helper" alternatives also like a ...Rock & Roller Cart, Speaker Stands that Rachet up to height, Cases with wheels, etc. to make your life easier on the road.

It's not just a matter of being wimps though - it's not very practical to damage your back for the sake of a relatively small paycheck compared to a life of pain. My family has back problems and then last year I pulled a back muscle with a Kurzweil PC88 in a flight case (88 lbs). I realized that I had to get down closer to "UPS standards" for cartage or risk serious injury. So it's very practical to be concerned with weight. We're fortunate to live in a time when technology has given us lighter options.

One other note: my closest freind - a keyboardist - was putting some heavy speakers up on tripods for a gig four years ago. He had just finished setting the speakers on their stands when he suffered a fatal heart attack. He was only 45.

I hope in the future someone invents a
Pro QUALITY SPEAKER system thats super light weight without compromise to sound.
Look what they have done with TV's and monitors etc,regarding Flat Panels and Plasma Screens in the last few years why not with Speakers also somehow. Even Power Amps are so much Lighter [Rack versions]come to mind. We used to have Heavy Tube amps....now we have lightweight circuit boards.
We'll wait and see.

Weight is very important to me. Because I DID lift heavy speakers, organs, etc. for years, my back is if bad shape. Also I have an umbilical hernia (like DNJ and several others) that needs to be fixed.
I have three sets of speakers right now. The heaviest are JBL Eon powered 15's and they are only 39 pounds each. I also have the Peavey Escort system that is wonderful for small jobs. The PSR2000 is the lightest keyboard I've ever owned. The PA80 was also light. They CAN be made good and light and the same time. I had a G800, and the PSR9000. They are manageable, but I much prefer the boards that are half the weight.
DonM

I was the RHODES player who had to lug that monster around.... before that it was a cordovox .. the model with amp, electronics, speaker all in one box, and the 'accordion' unit... when I started out in this biz, our house was on the side of a hill with 30 steps to the front door ... accordion in one hand, amp in the other!!.. Like DonM. Dnj, and others, I too have the umbilical hernia to show for it ... (it wasn't until some of these discussions that made me realize where it came from)...

Pro ... lifting weights usually makes you stronger ... did your friend have other problems that led to his heart attack? ..
t.

Remember guys,

What doesn't kill us...Only makes us stronger. I will never lift my speakers onto their stands without help again.

Dennis



[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 02-18-2003).]

Oh by the way...



Speakers, Amplifier and Transformers.
Notice the overall size of the wooden speaker cabinets. Lot's of excess room???
I told you that a fellow could lose approx. 20 pounds if he really wanted to.



I have a better picture of the open board...just can't remember the URL file name.

Dennis


[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 02-18-2003).]

Pro ... lifting weights usually makes you stronger ... did your friend have other problems that led to his heart attack? ..
t.

He had many of the afflictions that other musicians have: he was obese, smoked a lot and drank quiet a bit. That thing about lifting weights making you stronger usually applies to controlled repetitive exercise, not just slinging heavy speakers to shoulder height several times a week and carting keyboards to the car (that's likely all the exercise my freind ever got). I've seen people do far worse to themselves and live a lot longer so he may have been an exception, but I know for certain that he collapsed and died right after putting a pair of heavy speakers on their tripods.

I'm afraid the physics is against you when it comes to speakers. Having designed them for many years I know the pain of trying to get a quart out of a pint pot. If you want those bass notes you have to move a lot of air. This means either very large drivers or small ones that move in and out a great deal. The latter are difficult to design and make which is why we still have to use the large ones if we want to make a lot of noise. In any case, the loading on the rear of the driver has to match the amount of air being shifted if you want a clean and extended response. Yamaha did the right thing in using those wooden cabinets for the 9000. Wood (or its equivalent such as MDF) is a lot deader than plastic and doesn't contribute nearly as many resonances to the sound. And they're also the right size and shape. If you want quality you have to pay for it, physically as well as from a monetary viewpoint. This is why my 740 doesn't sound nearly as good as the 9000. Just wish I had the wherewithal to buy one.

Bryan

Ya Bryan, the old school method of moving a great deal of air within large cabinets seems to be what most companies are following. I was thinking I might try to incorporate some "WaveGuide" technology into either the existing cabinets or build some new ones. I certainly believe that a different design would give the benefit of greater bass tones. I have never designed a speaker, ie. coil, magnet, cone, driver sleeve and the like. I think it would be something very interesting to try. As I have virtualy no fear of electronics or how they work, it sounds like a project I may have to experiment with. On a side note, I put my 9000 back together last night with the upgrade I had planned on doing. I utilized some of the space inside the left speaker cabinet for some additional electronics that I wanted in my 9000. Opposed to this current project, installation of the USB interface last year was a walk in the park. Anyway it's back together and working great! I still believe that yamaha could have taken advantage of some of that German Technology in their speaker system, like Bose wave guide ideas.

Well that's it for now. Until I think of something else I want to build into my 9000.

Regards to all,

Dennis Almond

[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 02-19-2003).]

One point to make about equipment weight is, I'm just not as young as I used to be. It's not that I CAN'T lift as much as I used to, I think that wisdom thing is taking over and my brain is controlling things a bit more.

It's now telling the body to; "chill out, you don't have to lift that crap if you don't want to so don't".

The older I get, the smarter I get!!

Al

very kool pictures!!!!

I think Don Mason wanted to do this speaker operation long ago also :>)

Pro... It's tragic story for sure, but it sounds like he had all the ingredients of an attack just waiting to happen ....
The key to watching what we lift is first in watching what we lift into our MOUTHS !!! ...
As BIG buy (6'2" 280ish), I can say this with some authority....
A few weeks ago I was meeting with a doctor at Sloan - Kettering Hospital in NYC regarding surgery for prostate cancer... He spent the first half hour talking to me about heart disease!!! .... His biggest concern is whether or not my HEART will make it through the operation ... Needless to say, there has been a change in my 'lifting' habits ...
t.
PS I'll get off my soapbox now as it appears it is going to collapse under the weight
t.



[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 02-19-2003).]

I don't know what's in the water here. I was informed last night that my colesterol has exceed three hundred and I may be suicidal because at one point in my life I tried some anti-depressents to help combat the dreaded grey sky syndrome up here in the Northwest.
I guess I better be restocking my supply of "Lipitor" before I meet with a similar fate as Pro's friend.

Dennis