Dave always says that onboard speakers are essential. Personally I never really cared that much, until recently.
I have done three private "society" parties lately and used only the onboard speakers from the PSR2000. The volume and sound were perfect. Any more would have been too loud.
There are some of the best-paying jobs I've had in a while. ... and talk about easy set-up! Just the keyboard, mic and stand.
I think I will add on-board speakers to my list of must-haves for future new keyboards, unless something comes out that will convince me otherwise.
DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 06-02-2003).]

Right Don.
Last week I played for 30 people in a small party.
The 2000 was perfect just with on board speakers.
Just a tip : The best sound of in board speakers that I have heard is MZ2000, from Casio...
Last night I joinned the 2000 to MZ2000 speakers and I had a nice surprise.
Chico

You're right Chico.. Those speakers on the MZ-2000 are really nice. They have great low end, and sound great in the mid and high range as well. I think they're 15 watts.

Squeak

I played a Mothers Day private party for about 20 people,
I took my KN5000 & just used the onboard speakers it was boring
for me.
To me it sounded so dead, no life, yuk, everyone else
thought it was great. But I will never do that again.
I'm used to the 9000 Pro, a pair of Yamaha MS-400 speakers,
Yamaha MX-12/6 mixer, & a dual 31 band EQ.
I also connect the KN5000 to this system & it sounds great.
But I always mute the onboard speakers of the KN5000.
I just can not get used to the tiny, toy sounding onboard speakers.
I guess I'm just weard
Enjoying the old 9000 Pro
Denny

I strictly use the PSR-2000's onboard speakers for a monitor, however, when I had a PSR-5700, it had a built-in 50-watt amp and two great speakers, more than enough for playing background music for small cocktail parties. Those folks didn't want anything loud and did not want vocals, so it was perfect for this type of venue. Anything larger, and especially with vocals, I'll always use an external amp. BTW: Uncle Dave may not always be right, but he's never wrong!

Cheers,

Gary

DonM: Great to hear that the built in speakers alone are working for you for your small private party affairs, but I have to agree with Denny. The onboard speakers on the PSR2000, though an improvement over the Technics KN5000 one's, just don't cut it for me, for providing the 'sole' sound source, even for those small venue background music type jobs. The problem is NOT volume, but that the PSR2000 4.72" woofers aren't able to deliver 'smooth rich' sound, that only larger woofers can provide.

On the other hand, I do LOVE 'built into the kb speakers' for stage monitoring purposes, as they're positioned & aimed ideally for us the keyboard player.

The thing I like about my new Motion Sound KP-100S for small-medium venues, is that it's able to perform DOUBLE duty, positioned directly behind me, it functions both as my personal stage monitor, as well as acting as the MAINS: delivering a rich smooth 'full bodied' sound into the room (audience). I'm especially thrilled now after I recently swapped out the factory woofers with ones that significantly extend the bass frequency response. Previous to this, I would need to take the Tyros TRS-M01 subwoofer, but this is no longer the case. I feel I now have both my cake and can eat it too, cuz not only has my gig load gotten lighter, but gig setup time has gotten easier (quicker), and sound quality has improved substantially as well.

Scott

I've said this before................It used to be that if a keyboard had onboard speakers it was considered a toy, certainly not a pro type instrument. Having a PSR2000 its onboard speakers are the best onboard speakers I have heard on ANY Yamaha board. I heard that Yamaha started using a 12 volt automotive type sound system (which might explain the 16 volt adapter) the last few years so they can use some common 12 volt top of the line audio processor chips like high end car systems use.

Don, you're finally gettin' it right, huh?
For some, who may have lost some hearing sensitivity, or just "don't get it" ..... they will always feel naked without the larger boxes at their sides. For the rest of us, who have found that musical "nirvana of ease", and realize that volume is more often than not, a distraction - I salute you ! (us)

You are finding out waht I have know for ages ..... that size really DOES matter, and some parties do not require the added "ooomph" or the "fuller bass" or the (ugly) poles. They just want nice music, with entertaining vocals .... a little interaction with the clientelle ... more class than brass.

I will never endorse the sound of built in speakers as "superior" to a quality system, but I do recognize that it is sometimes EXACTLY what is called for. Especially in multi-million dollar homes and fancy country clubs ...... the visual is important, and the look of stage gear is very often "overkill". It even scares some clients just LOOKING at larger speakers in a situation where a small Bose Radio would be sufficient. (which I DO use occasionally !)

Don't be so quick to knock the system folks - Trust me ...... sometimes "Little is best"

Having just use the PSR2k with just its speakers (to back a singer at a function) I wonder if it would be possible to run a sub-woofer from the PSR's oututs to "beef up" the bottom end and use the internals "as is" for the rest?

Pro,

It's not the equipment--it's the performer. I've seen lots of performers that could keep a party hopping with an "El-Cheapo" keyboard that that sounds marginal at best--even when amplified. In contrast, there are a lot of indivuals who try to pass themselves off as entertainers who have incredibly expensive equipment, read and play music well, but couldn't fill a dance floor or please a crowd at a cocktail party if their lives depended on it. I've owned a dozen keyboards, some of which were really expensive, and to this day, no one has come up to me and said anything about the keyboard's appearance. NO ONE, EVER, AT ANY TIME, ever looked at any of my keyboards and said "gee you only have 61 keys. They don't care if it has 2,000 keys, or if the color is silver, black, blue, gold or rocket red--just as long as they're entertained. You would be amazed how many people do say, however, "We loved the music, it was very entertaining, and I'm glad that you didn't do what the last guy did and crank up the volume to the point where you had to scream at the person standing next to you." IMHO, in this business if you're not keeping people entertained, you're out of business.

Cheers,

Gary

I do that alot, and only use a small 150watt bass amp, made by Gallian Krueger. (It's really only 90watts with a single speaker) This is very often all you need for that fuller bottom. Don't try to impress anyone with "stuff", unless it's the "stuff" that you have in your heart. From the bedroom to the ballroom ..... my stuff is always appreciated.

Though I agree with Travelin'Easy that it's the performance that should count most, I have to admit that most of my private affair hi society type clients, image is probably just as important as the performance, so taking the PSR2000 is a definite NO NO. These people often have an expensive grand piano typically for looks as they usually can't play it themselves) so in these instances, I'll utilize the grand piano during the dinner hour, reserving the arranger keyboard for cocktails & after dinner entertainment.

As far as sound quality goes, even at very low background volume levels, 4.72" built into keyboard type speakers alone DO NOT cut it in my book. An even slightly larger dedicated PA speaker (or augmenting the built in speaker kb with a sub woofer) produces a 'smoother' more realistic (natural) sound with far greater accuracy & detail. Interestingly, it's these small venues playing exposed (bass/drums/piano) style music where I find augmenting with a dedicated PA speaker or sub woofer essential.

btw: I always stipulate in my contract that the acoustic piano must be in tune & regulated, and with (no broken or missing keys/strings). I'm always amazed how so many pianos that look beautiful, actually sound awful as a lot of rich people primarily purchase pianos as 'status image' display furniture only and don't (can't) play themselves.

Scott

Anyone who thinks that the actual measurment of a speaker counts for anything is really missing the larger picture here. The best compliment I can give the manufacturers of today's gear is that they really make them sound GREAT in their own, internal world.

Sure, we can make their sound even better with the advanced technology of a higher end system, but the simple fact is ..... most arranger kb's in the $1000+ range really do have a nice balanced sound.
Now, to be fair, it doesn't carry very far ... but it was never intended to. In many instances, the sound of an even, pleasing background song is absolutely perfect when accompanying a strong, well trained voice in the hands of a seasoned performer.

Whenever I am in a situation where the volume is a minimal requiriemnt, I try to put all the puzzle pieces together for a great fit. This included my voice. Sometimes, I don't even need to amplify that. My acoustic sound is pretty strong, and many times at wedding services, I use the kb speakers and my acoustic voice ... and that's it.

Churches (and some tents) have terrific natural reverb, and my voice carries to the last seat without a strain.

It's all a case of perspective. Sometimes, little, tiny, plastic speakers really DO cut it. If you haven't experienced a situation like this yet .... you're missing a great time. It's nice to hear the acoustic nature of ANY instrument to remind you of the purity and soul that it can convey, and vocals are no exception.

Before you all start singing the "larger PA is best" saga ........ set up in a small room, and quietly, intimatly communicate with a relaxed nature. See if you like it.
I personally, enjoy the heck out of it.

I'm 48 and have been singing since 1969. The only reason I still have perfect hearing is because I never embraced the volume.

Gear will never "make" a peformance. Please forget everything you ever heard that might suggest that you are a better musician if you use better gear. A master carpenter with a cheap hammer can build a fine house, but a weak voiced singer with no sense of swing can never make a millon dollar keyboard entertain a crowd. You gotta have heart, before you can sell your soul!

Well, it lookslike this post makes no sense, since Esh bailed out, so I'll edit the content instead of deleting it.

Basically - he slammed me for wearing jeans in that picture, so I defended my reasons. No harsh words .... no harm, no foul.
No Esh ..... No loss.

[This message has been edited by Uncle Dave (edited 06-04-2003).]

WEEEEEOOOOOOOO, WEEEEEOOOOOO, WEEEEEOOOOOO,
INCOMING!!! INCOMING!!! INCOMING!!!
t.

No removing of threads.
Starkeeper

Betcha 10 bucks it's gone by tomorrow!

mike

Rattley, Yamaha have been using automotive type audio chips for some time. I have them in both my 740 and 220. The chip in question is the Sanyo LA4705 which will run up to 24V and 25W per channel. All they've done in the 2000 is to up the voltage from 12 to 16 which theoretically ups the output to nearly double that in the 740.

Bryan

WooooooooW
Looks like I must have mist out on some body's post, between UD's
2 post's.
Seam's like things were getting warmed up.
What the heck, just because some of us don't like the sound of onboard
speakers,( maybe never will ) & others do like the sound, don't make
any of us right or wrong, it's just or own preference.
If we all liked the same things then the only KB that would have to be
made would be the 9000 Pro. ( Hee Hee Hee )
Did I say that ????
Denny

Damn, would have loved to to see that post between both of UD's... Can anyone fill us in (those of us who didn't get the chance to see the post) Who was it from? By what UD said in his second post something heavy must have been said...

Squeak

Me Too!!! I love constructive critisism[when directed toward another]..

It was between UD and ThePro whose former SZ name was ESH. I didn't get a chance to see it either but apparently it hit a nerve in UD. We are all adults here and if a person's integrity, etc., is questioned or challenged than the normal reaction is to respond to that allegation. My Grandma always said if you can't stand the heat in the kitchen then get out. Apparently ThePro did exactly that. Which, btw, is his right to do if he so desires and is neither seen as a weakness or bad in my opinion, ie., "delete his post". Sometimes deleting a post (although NOT the original thread hopefully), can be quite discrete and recommended in certain situations so as not to compound or accentuate the conflict in question. Hopefully this can all be ironed out eventually.

Best regards,
Mike

Indeed, that's all this should be: a matter of preference. Even if each of us decides to strongly argue in favor of our own preference. It should then be obvious that this, as other previous "cat fights", is no more than a personality shock, a dispute between two big egos (pretty common among musicians). There are a million ways to express an idea or to give an opinion but if you notice, from time to time the discussion heats up, and this cascade frequently leads to the route of inevitable crash. No big deal, but posts with less "personal content" (when they lead to unpleasant forms of expression) would be preferable (IMO).

I personally value both Dave and Esh's posts and opinions, as well as many others' regardless of whether the writing style pleases me or not. Honestly, I understand both points of view, and having the possibility to read them BOTH is the great thing about this forum. It stimulates me to equate my own needs and take full conscience of my goals in music! If I were a person desperatly looking for a model to copy in my musical acts, I would have a hard time deciding between the paths and choices of these two successful musicians!

-- José.

[This message has been edited by matias (edited 06-03-2003).]

I too, like José, value the opinions of both Uncle Dave and Jim Eshelman; it's too bad that Jim decided to delete his own threads and, very likely, quit this Forum for the second time. This is -to me- an attitude difficult to understand: you cannot expect that everybody agrees with you and -if they don't- go away slamming the door and maybe thinking "Geez, what a bunch of incompetent idiots!"
Jim, if you are reading this, please note that I tend to agree more with YOUR point of view: as you know, I own three keyboards, and only one of them (the VA7) has onboard speakers; in Uncle Dave's own words, the VA7 has excellent speakers, yet I find them hard to accept for my tastes, maybe because I don't sing (and I mean it!), so the keyboard for me is more than a backing tool. For this reasons, two months ago I purchased a Syrincs M3 monitor system; I did this without having ever heard or seen them, just because Roel expressed a very positive opinion about them (I trust Roel's opinion on technical issues a lot). I had to buy them from this german online shop, because they are not even available in Italy:
http://www.musik-service.de/ProduX/Recording/Monitore/Syrincs_M3_Monitor_System_mit_Woofer.htm

Well, I am more than glad that I did it; they are small (19 kg overall), powerful (68 W the subwoofer and 38 W x 2 the satellites) and -most important of all- they have a great frequency curve. I would go on and dare to say that they could almost be labeled as an Hi-Fi system. I am using them as a monitor system in my home studio and for the first time I have realized mistakes I had been making on my old mixdowns, done with my PC Cambridge Soundworks system 5.1. And they are not only small, clean and powerful (with a deep, DRY bass); they are also very good looking; they come in four different colors (black, red, blue, and grey); I did choose the "all black" finishing and -even from this point of view- I think that they could be placed in every living room (even in a millionaire's house) and be mistaken for a small Hi-Fi system.
I have already used them in a party given by one of my friends in a large living room and all were pleasantly surprised by the amount of clean sound they were able to deliver, without any listening fatigue (which usually is due to distortion, even if you don't consciously realize its presence).
Of course, this is just my personal point of view and I have no pretension to say the "final and ultimate" word on this subject...

It's simple for me. The speakers aren't a "must have", but given the choice, I'd rather have them onboard. They make for excellent "in my face" monitors, and are convenient when I play at home. On the other hand, I won't use them without something else, even in the smallest of venues. My basement studio is basically a 16 x 25 room that has decent acoustics, probably as good if not better than the average small room I'd play in. I was curious as to how the speakers of the PA80 and 2000 would sound, from say 10 or 15 feet away, so I recorded a midi file of me playing and then sat 15 feet away. I even went one further and recorded a vocal that I synched to the keyboard with N Track and fed back into the kb's speakers. I listened to tunes with and without vocals. In both cases, it all sounded decent coming through the kb speakers, but I liked the sound better coming through the rooms sound system ( at low volume ). It also sounded better when I used just my Yamaha YST-MS50 powered speakers. For what I hear, having the speakers point more "at me", as opposed to having them face the ceilng or point away, enhances the quality of the sound.

AJ

I turned off my PA last night at home and played just using the X1 internal speakers. I don't care how small the job, for me they just don't cut it. The ONLY way I would use them alone on a job was if there was NO other option. I played a very small 30 person party and I had to put a speaker under the cake table but at least the sound had some body and warmth. Maybe the Korg speakers are way better than the X1s but I doubt it. I still love ya U.D. but I don't agree on this one.

BTW it looks like we got your basketball coach. Go Pistons.

Yes, I deleted my posts. It's time for me to put things in clear perspective between Uncle Dave and I. I made a comparison here yesterday about some people wearing blue jeans on stage while others don't as a comparison about using cheap versus expensive equipment, and I swear to God it was NOT meant as a slam against Uncle Dave (I didn't even remember that he WAS wearing jeans in a recent picture...). None the less the stupid jerk took it as an insult and went on an attack against me, my name, my show (that he's never seen or heard) and more and I've had enough. I've really tried to get along with this backwards moron and his clones but it's useless. And I really mean that. So I'm going to focus on what I should have done in the first place: record my current live performances and post them on the web. This is where the gloves go down. Uncle "playing since 1969" Dave is going to get his opportunity to listen to what he's so eager to put down. Be back soon.

Wow! Pistols at dawn baby!

Squeak

Wow, what did I start now?
I don't like playing without external p.a. either, and I've only done it maybe three or four times in my career (30+ years). My point was there ARE times it is appropriate. The job last week had me setting up on an interior balcony with cathedral ceiling. It overlooked the living/party area. The acoustics were such that the sound was very full and smooth. I put on a midi and went all through the house before the party started to be sure. After all it was background music. Midway through the party, as the sun went down and the temperature cooled off (this is Louisiana) the guests started migrating to the back patio/pool area. The hostess asked if it would be too much trouble to move out there.
I said "no trouble at all". She said to be sure and not bother the neighbors, so again I just used the keyboard. Outside it was even better. The dozen or so people were all very close and I could interact with them. At least four additional bookings resulted.
I had two complete pa systems in the van. One was the little Peavey Escort, the other powered JBL Eons in two different sizes. Believe me, if more was needed, I'd have used it. The party was reviewed by society editors from two different newspapers. When the reviews are printed, I'll pass them on, good or bad.

I did another such party recently when all they wanted was someone to play their accoustic piano. When I arrived it was out of tune badly. Not being a piano player in the first place, I asked if they minded if I brought in my keyboard instead. They didn't care "as long as it was no louder than the piano". By the end of the party I had passed out more than a dozen business cards to people who were amazed at the sound and performance. It was an 80th birthday party, but nobody had to turn up their hearing aids.

A few years ago I was working a few parties for Amtrak. It involved setting up in a double seat in a train car and playing while people ate and traveled. At the time I took a small amp because I had a Technics KN5000 that was no good for vocals. Today I would have just taken the PSR2000 and eliminated all the problems. There were maybe a dozen people all within 30 or 40 feet. It would have been perfect.

The other thousands of jobs I've played all required external amplification.

It's amazing to me that such issues can't be discussed without bringing personalities into it. I won't delete the string because most of the info here is interesting and useful.
DonM

Pro ... It did seem that your post was a personal attack on what UD was wearing in the latest photos (of course, he did wear a tux to his daughter's dance...), and if you say it wasn't (and I have no reason to doubt you), and it resulted in his personal attack on you, your gear, and your show that's a shame ... BUT ... if it gets you to post some of your music for all of us to hear, than perhaps every cloud DOES have a silver lining ... ....

UD ... I have agreed with you on a lot of things, but I have to disagree with "No Esh ... No loss ... " ... I think the loss of any of the members of this board is a loss to all of us.....
t.

For me ... it's no loss. He's a non-factor.

The more I read some of these threads, the more it beats the morning comics, hands down. Education and entertainment at its finest... love this forum.

To me if you can play, I enjoy it. I don't even notice the sound of the PA. If you sing nice and PLAY THE RIGHT CHORDS I'm fine with that. Even if it isn't "Lush Life."

What I can't stand is walking in and listening to someone trying to cut "I Get A Kick Out of You" with 4 or 5 chords. Impossible right? I also detest listening to someone either play instrumentally or accompanyibg himself with the wrong chords.

I walked into a nice place in town a couple of months ago and the guys been making a living play proffessionally for years and playing wrong chords on simple tunes. He even had to change the melody to fit the chords. That's sick. That's like laying brick for 30 years but you can't build a wall over 3 foot high because it will be crooked.

Music wise I find the public lacking in taste. Especially if they had a few drinks. Ha! Ha!. I know they pay the bills but it still sucks that they like such junk. I don't care if it's with a $30 keyboard amp or with a $10,000 PA system. If you can't play, you stink.

...... so, how 'BOUT that Sammy Sosa, huh?

Sammy Who?? - we got Carlos Delgado so there.

Bryan

Esh, I owe you an apology......... I thought I was talking to an adult, but this is more like playground antics. You've got serious ego issues man. Don't hurry back.

Dear friends,
what's going on between Uncle Dave and Jim saddens me a lot; I know that it's not the first time that this happens and I know also that what went on in this particular thread is only the ending point of a constant bickering that dates back in time.
To cut it short, I think that the real problem is that BOTH Dave and Jim have a big, over-enflated ego.
Let's start with Jim: there is no doubt that he has a very high opinion of himself; I have often read with interests his threads, where he shows off a brilliant prose, but too often aggressive or maybe even sarcastic. It's evident that Jim considers himself a very talented musician; I don't know if this is true, but in my life I have learned that, no matter how talented you are, there is always someone else who can do the same things better or at least in a different way and however - to put it bluntly- dear Jim, if you are half as good as you pretend to be, you should be a fixture in Vegas by now!
Then, of course, there is Uncle Dave: I know him from more than two years and have to say that I feel very sad everytime I consider how his personal life is going. I know that this is none of my business and I know also that he most likely will shrug and say that his life is much better now than it has ever been before, but I have more than a few doubts about that. What saddens me more than everything else is the fact that a man who is 48 does not realize that his personal troubles are - in my humble opinion- a direct consequence of his behavior. Dear Dave, if you did behave in your family the way you behave on this Forum, to me it's no wonder that your personal life is such a mess; forgive me for saying this, but do you think that it's easy to get along with someone who is constantly 100% sure that he is right and all the others are wrong or at least behind him in the path that leads to the Truth? It's not just this stupid thing about the speakers: is that you have constantly the pretension to give us every kind of advice about everything, without ever adding the magic formula "in my humble opinion". No, dear Dave, it's never your (humble or not) opinion: the way you phrase it, it's simply the spoken truth.
Well, I think that it was exactly this kind of behavior that has provoked reactions like the one we have just witnessed from Jim (but I could mention other Forum members as well, who had similar clashes with Dave in the past).
I have felt more than once the desire to write what I am writing right now and I have finally decided to voice my feelings because I just came back from Brazil, where I spent a fantastic week together with people who made me feel ashamed for my inadequacy as a musician and as a human being as well. I will give you just an example: Julio Adriano, the best guitarist I have played with, is not a professional musician: he has another job, but he spends every Sunday playing (for free) for children who have physical problems.
Coming back and having to witness all this is a bit too much; maybe this Forum is not the right place for me.

Hello all,

I rarely voice my opinion regarding all those "fights" and disagreements lately in this forum but I couldn't agree more with Andrea.

Claude

IMHO is one of those redundant statements. Of course I express MY opinions .... who else can I speak for? Dreamers post is very well thought out and carefully worded with great tact and poise. I admit, that is not my writing (or speaking) style. My Dad and my older sister are both like that, while my Mom and I seen to fire from the hip. We are passionate, artistic people with great love and respect for life and all those in it, but we DO (sometimes) come off as unfeeling. This is simply not so. I feel a great deal of compassion and willingness to learn. I also feel that in this crazy world of entertainment, that many, many people are being misguided by the rantings of idiots and marketers trying to "sell us" something. Maybe an idea, maybe a product, but it's a snow job, just the same.

I won't pretend that I am not a little rough around the edges, but I take great pride in my commitment to family, friends and work. My troubles at home are certainly due in part to the surroundings that we all face, and we are all shaped by our situations, but please don't tell me that because I am strong willed and confident in my abilities ( a MUST HAVE quality for any entertainer) that my family suffers proportionatly. Bad things happen to good people all the time, and kids will ALWAYS test their limits when they can.

We are rasing teens in a wacky, mixed up world, and it ain't easy, my friends. It ain't even close. I love my family more than life itself, and I share the same passion for my art that many of you do. I shall continue to express myself in the best way that I know how, and only hope that the fragile nature of the written word can somehow traslate my true feelings.

This medium is far from perfect, and the safety net of anonimity can really play tricks on your mind. Be honest with yourself - speak your mind, and be ready to accept contrary opinion. I am.

Different views are healthy. Keep 'em coming.

Esh ..... here's an olive branch. I'll pick it up with your own glove. Let's move on, shall we?

I'm with Andrea in this one.

Everybody should do what they want, explaning how and why they do it and that's all.
We can all learn from each other... I'm only playing live since one and a half years ago and I'm sure I would have things to share with everybody about different issues, the same way people like Uncle Dave (with a lot of experience) could share with me.

About the thread: "onboard speakers", my previous keyboard was a (I was "poor" at that time...) Roland VA-3. I know the onboard speakers wasn't as good as another keyboards, but anyway I would never play ONLY with those speakers. I'm very used to studio monitoring, and so I need a clear and transparent PA system, even at a very low level. I used the onboard speakers alone only one time, in a small church playing only organ (the singer didn't need amplification).

I got a non-onboard speakers thinking of this and who's gonna tell me I did it wrong?...
If I find this post about onboard speakers, I'll try to learn something from other people experience and maybe express my opinion, but I'd never tell anyone he's completely wrong and I'm the right one.

Let's just share our experience, our little secrets, our tricks, our way of playing, the equipment we use and let's all "upgrade" ourselves. WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT!! So why not only help each other?!

(Sorry everybody about the bad english but I'm a little stuck at it...)

Luis Santos

I was going to refrain from posting, but as some of you may remember, I (among others) have been the recipient of some of Uncle Dave's past flames. This included his attempt to claim pro experience superiority (over me) by saying he'd "been working the trenches, while I was still playing in the sand box" as well as his resentful (jeoulous?) remarks whenever I mentioned my Steinway Grand, or his 'repeated' reminders that he would never buy a 'mute' keyboard like a Tyros, suggesting it would most likely be found at a 'Toys R Us' toy store. Were these just innocent jokes and was I just being overly sensitive? Perhaps, but now that Uncle Dave's met his match with Esh (The Pro), the shoe is suddenly on the other foot, with Dave now on the receiving end, and now it's Uncle Dave claiming FOUL ball. Now I'm wondering who's really the 'overly sensitive' one.

I don't know the Pro (Jim Eshleman) personally, but I suspect he may have intentionally responded to Uncle Dave's postings in UD's similar 'straight forward' self appointed expert manner, just to test Uncle Dave at his own game.

Uncle Dave, I realize that underneath, that you're a kind hearted & generous person, so I'm keeping faith that your olive branch will prove to be an everlasting one.

Peace and friendship,

Scott

I,m new to the forum.I have no Idea what transpired in the past between Dave or anybody else,but having recently dealt with Dave on a proffessional matter,I found him to be fortright and courteous.As for his personal life,I don,t know anything about it other than the unfortunate incident that happened a while ago,but which seems to have been resolved without to much harm. As a father of two Grown daughters I can attest to the fact that raising children is a difficult Task.As one of six kids myself I would like to point out that every child is not a product of their parents personalities. All of my siblings are totally different.If it were true that we are all products of our enviroment then we should all have turned out the same way and made the same mistakes as well as successes.It would not reflect the diversity of thinking on this forum if everybody agreed all the time. Sometimes a good arguament is needed to put things in perspective.I,m sure That both Dave and esh are good musicians and we all can learn from their opinions as well as they can from ours.That,s my two cents worth,so peace to all.and let,s keep the debates and info coming.

We need some new arrangers, so that we'll have some REAL issues to debate. This quarrel is extremely childish. I rest my case.

------------------
Roy-Andrè

Dave, I have a feeling that, in your case, adding the "magic formula" to your statements would have a HUGE therapeutic effect. I don't pretend that you trust me, so here is something for you: I think that your daughter is still part of a treatment program and her family is part of the plan. Now, why don't you ask one of her therapeutists why she did what she did while she was with YOU, in YOUR house? She could have done the same thing while she was with her mother or in every other moment, but no: she did it in your own house. Didn't it occur to you that maybe she was trying to send you a message?

You also write:

"please don't tell me that because I am strong willed and confident in my abilities ( a MUST HAVE quality for any entertainer) that my family suffers proportionatly".

Fine, then why don't you keep your "bravado facade" for the business side of your life and try to be more humble or less assertive when dealing with your relatives, your Synthzone fellow members or your loved ones (including any future readhead?)
Once again, I have a feeling that this would have a HUGE positive effect on your personal life.
With friendship,
Andrea

Andrea,
Of course this was a message. My daughter was crying out as loud as she knew how at the monent. As for location - for what it's worth ....... she was in the house that her Mom & I built together .... the only home that Katie knows. I just happened to be here during that horrible time. Her Mom came in within an hour, so it was not a case of her seeking ME out. She was just home, after school tryinf to shut her brain off.
On a lighter front - June 10th marks the 3 month anniversary of that terrible day and so far, it looks like there is no permanent physical damage to liver or kidneys. The doctors said three months shpuld tell the tale ... I hope they are right.

This forum is a unique place in many of our lives. It has the warmth of a cozy fire and the roar of a gale wind .... at the same time. It's obvious that we are connected somehow, or the little discrepencies would go unnoticed.

The real fact that counts here is honesty. I have been totally honest with all of you at all times. The same way I treat anyone I care about. If being blunt sometimes, makes a few ripples in the pond ..... at least they are honest ripples. I think some of us (maybe all of us, at times) feel "ownership" of this place. We get to a comfortable place, and we express ourselves as if this was a private diary. That's probably a compliment to Nigel ..... I'm not sure, but it seems like he has created a safe haven for all, and we respond in turn.

I think this issue has been drawn out enough. The long-timers here all know pretty much all there is to know about each member, (or at least what they THINK they know about each of us,) and the newcomers are finding their way, so I'll end my potion of this character debate with this:

Right or wrong - you will always get my REAL opinion. You will get it straight from the heart, or the trenches of experience.... wherever I store it. My intent is to share and to enlighten, and to absorb the same from each of you. Let's face it .... we really DON'T know anything about each other here ..... just what each of us LET'S you see. We make up our minds based on the matertial printed, and it may or may not be the real thing. This forum is a stage in itself, and we ALL perform on it. We show off, we act out our dreams and we share genuine feelings with a "captive" yet invisible audience. What better way to perform? No stage fright ...... no eyes glaring up at you .... time to rethink a line after it's been delivered. This is a majical place that allows us to step outside of the confines of our lives and post who WE think we are.

Taking all this into perspective ..... I think it's pretty cool that we are here at all. Arguments are a healty part of communication, and are inevitable in all relationships. This forum is no exception.

Scott ..... I'm not at all jealous of your piano, or your car, but thanx for adding to the soup anyway. It wouldn't be the same without commentary from all sides of the fence.
Don ..... Happy now? Bet you're sorry you ever started this one, huh?
Esh ..... I'm ok if you're ok.

It finally stopped raining for TWO days in a row, here in the Notheastern US. Whew! What a spring THIS has been. Maybe tensions were high because of some kind of sun-depravation ..... kind of like what goes on in Alaska during the extended period of moonlight. Who knows.

Like Porky Pig says :
... a bippita, bippita, bippita ... that's all folks !