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#160460 - 11/05/07 06:04 PM
Re: Korg Pa2XPro close-up
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14269
Loc: NW Florida
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No, Donny. Just SAYING there's nothing wrong with them doesn't change the facts. There are only two fills for the entire style, unless you forego the Break/Fill. And then there are three.
Compared to six for Roland, and five for Yamaha, that cannot help but make for jumpier fills, and several posts (mrdave and Dreamer articulate it well) acknowledge the problem.
Just SAYING it ain't so doesn't MAKE it so, and the fact that you rarely ever have anything critical to say about an arranger you own until AFTER you have sold it cannot help but make us pay somewhat less attention to the spin...
The sad fact is, if the PA800 had six fills, and the PSR S900 had only two, you would be the FIRST to pooh-pooh the contention that 'two are enough'!
Can you GET BY with two...? Well, apparently, yes, you seem OK with it. But if you DID have more, you certainly wouldn't complain about it!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#160462 - 11/05/07 06:52 PM
Re: Korg Pa2XPro close-up
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
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Originally posted by Diki:
Is it really THAT hard to admit ANY flaw that you would be willing to forego any improvement in the future, simply to avoid discussing it?
I already have Diki, several times..and this flaw which has always been that sometimes the actual fill itself is a bit busy or loud forthe particular variation, has been discussed and addressed ad nauseum on the korg forums, AND AND AND Korg have done something about it...Man you really cannot see the bleeding obvious through all your rhetoric can you...sheesh what does one have to do? Okay, Variation 1 of the style has a fill one and a fill 2 and a break, Variation 2 has fill one , fill two and a break, variation 3 has fill 1 and fill 2 and a break variation four has fill 1 and fill 2 and a break. So there are, including breaks, 12 fills for each complete style. There is not just 2 fills used for all four style variations.. Now in the real world one would not usually use a fill used on variation 4 (usually the busiest) to go back to variation 1, which is where the break fill can be used. To say the korg has only 2 fills for an entire style is just wrong.
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#160463 - 11/05/07 07:13 PM
Re: Korg Pa2XPro close-up
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14269
Loc: NW Florida
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Sorry, miden, but what you state there is COMPLETELY at odds with Korg's own tech specs. There are NOT 12 fills, there are THREE. PERIOD. END OF BLEEDING! No matter how often you say it, it will not change (unless Korg update it to the system you would LIKE to be true). mrdave's post: Originally posted by mrdave:
No, the 3 buttons, plays each one the same fill without regard to the variation is currently playing. In the style edit mode you have the option to edit only Fill1 / Fill2 / Fill3 tracks so the fills are only 3. This is really a shortcoming, I found on the Pa1X many styles that have fills that do not sound well when played with some variations, specially Var1. Since the style structure hasn't changed in Pa2X I think it will have the same problem.
Roland by contrast, uses a FillDown - FillUp concept that produces smooth transitions, and provides 6 fills for each style.
and Dreamer's post: Originally posted by Dreamer: Guys,
this fill thing is becoming really an issue.
Here is what I have found doing a search on Korgforums.com:
"The fills alot of the time don't fit; if you're on Variation 1 for example then the fill 'punches' in, instead of being configured for the variation, i.e. the instruments in the fill don't match the variation until you get to about variation 4, so they're kinda useless up till then, they're especially bad on slow and quiet styles sometimes, yet others seem Ok. Is there anyway to change this so that the fill changes with the variation, or will I need to make my own?
Actually, I wasn't strictly accurate. The rhythm is perfectly timed and does begin at the end of a measure, I was misled by the background; it's the instruments in the fill that's causing the problem, because they change instantly when you hit the fill button and some are vastly different to the variation, so it might be all pads for example and the instant you hit fill you get guitars, extra percussion etc etc, that doesn't blend. So I guess the question should be:
Is there any way to get fill variations, that correspond to whatever variation you're in, rather than being the same fill regardless of which variation you're using?"
"Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about when you said, the fill-in doesnt match the variation. For instance, Var 1 might only have bass, and just a simple drum rhytm, whereas Var 4 might have the full band going, and the actual fill-in is based on the full band too, so if you fill-in during Var 1, it sounds dodgy. As far as I know, unless you edit one of the 2 fill-ins to suit a certain Variation, its not possible to change it. Keyboard doesnt care what Variation you are in when you fill in. It will play the fillin the way its been recorded, regardless of what Variation you're in.
[b]Unfortunately the Pa1X (pro) only has 2 fill-ins, besides the break, and that's too little to make all of the fills needed for most songs. Fill-in 1 in most cases is a simple one and fill-in 2 has more extended voicing. The styles are very good and lively programmed and don't bore me after three or four times repeating. But sometimes you need a clear passage to go to the chorus or bridge. Sometimes I mute one or more acc tracks and use fill-in 2, but that's very user unfriendly. I wonder if someone has a more practical approach to make use of the limited number of fills to let them sound differently by tweaking the volumes or sounds." "Thanks guys, the more I get into it the more I find 'useable' rather than not, it's got to be difficult to find the balance when there's 4 vars but only 2 fills, I'm getting used to it and don't actually think it'll be a problem at all when I come to tweaking my own performance settings." So... where lies the truth?  [/B] explain it fully. Please check your facts before you assume that what you would LIKE to be the truth actually IS...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#160465 - 11/05/07 08:51 PM
Re: Korg Pa2XPro close-up
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
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Diki,
When I used the pa1xpro, and I had it for quite some time, the fill that played on a styles' variation 4 for example, was different to the fill played when you were on variation 1..well to my ears anyway......I suspect that we are probably talking about the same thing, just from different angles..as even with that fill, it was still inappropriate for say just a fill to repeat the first variation as it built a little too much. But hey, if everyone else is right and Im wrong, I dont really give a toss, its how I remember the board..I never got the opportunity to upgrade to op sys 3.00 because I sold it, but from other comments at the Korg forum and the way it seemed to die down the new op system must have addressed the problem, so Korg were listening and did something about it.
I have had several private chats with Paolo re some of the shortcomings of the pa1x, all of which he said was passed on to the hardware design team and the software team as well.
It is not really an issue that needs to be flogged again quite frankly..You asked for genuine and honest comment on a topic and I gave it..I can't help it if you disagree, thats your problem.
Dennis
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