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#162256 - 01/25/07 08:52 PM styles vs midi flles
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4724
As I also prepare to do an elderly job, I find it difficult to switch from style playing to midi file playing.

I enjoy the exciting on-the-fly playing experience of styles and quite the opposite while accompanying a recording - boring and a notch above karaoke.

The irony is that playing with a midi is very difficult, especially if no chords are given. To top it off, if I listen to the original piano parts (or parts that I should minus one) I feel like a bumbling idiot as I try to mimick that track!

Kind of a two edge sword if you ask me.

Question that's been kicked around a lot I'd suppose:

Is it possible to play a gig, all venues, with just style playing?

Who does it, or what % of styles vs. midi/mp3?

zuki
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#162257 - 01/25/07 09:16 PM Re: styles vs midi flles
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I do almost 100% styles. I use a few midi files, but I'm perfectly comfortable without them, and sometimes go all week without using one.
I use a midi file on Suspicious Minds, Wooly Bully, and a few Sinatra songs when I don't feel like playing them.
I also have the themes from a bunch of old tv shows that I sometimes play "name that show" with, maybe a couple times a year!
DonM
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#162258 - 01/26/07 06:44 AM Re: styles vs midi flles
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Zuki,

I'm pretty much with Don on this one. I have tons of midi files, some of which are really good, and while there some wonderful advantages of using midi files, there are disadvantages as well. This is particularly true if you have a dancefloor that begins to fill with people about halfway through the midi file. Sure, some keyboards will allow you to go back to a certain point in the file, but most do not. Consequently, that midi file has a specific length and when it's over--it's over. The advantage of using a style for the same song is the song isn't over until you want it to end.

As for playing along with a midi file, I cannot read sheet music, therefore it has never been a problem because the songs are all in my head. There are some advantages of playing by ear, and I guess that's just one of them. However, one of these days, before I'm out of this business, I'm going to make another concerted effort to learn to read sheet music--it's just something I gotta' do one day!


Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy
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#162259 - 01/26/07 07:01 AM Re: styles vs midi flles
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I have never used MIDI files in a performance, always preferring the flexibility and control that using the style gives me.

I rarely use a factory, or a third party style as is...I always modify to make my sound as unique as possible.

I certainly have nothing against the use of MIDI files...to each their own.

Whatever works...


Ian

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#162260 - 01/26/07 07:08 AM Re: styles vs midi flles
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
SMF is just another tool in my musical arsenal......you can customize them for backup or to play along if needed....
SMF are also very useful when you need CUSTOM 16 tracks for an arrangement that an arranger style just cant do....or if Im doing a big vocal song Im not playing with as backing tracks or if your gonna play along memorize the music and Improvise making it your own .....most of my SMF get rendered into MP3's....you have to juggle your tools every night depending on the gig...otherwise you can get a bit boring to the audience........technology is available to us .....embrace it any way you can.

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#162261 - 01/26/07 02:22 PM Re: styles vs midi flles
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
SMFs are very important if you have to play songs that the piano is up front... playing with just one hand doesn't cut it.... Then, if you wish to use the bender extensively on a song, forget about arranger play...... If you wish to play a secondary instrument (trombone, in my case!) forget arranger play....

Mind you, all of the above situations would be possible on an arranger if they just brought back the f-ing CHORD SEQUENCER....!
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#162262 - 01/26/07 04:29 PM Re: styles vs midi flles
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2206
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I didn't used to use alot of midi's. A few months ago, I went on a search to find good midi's and came up with quite a few that are really good and cannot be duped with a style. So, now, I used quite a bit and about 80% of the time with those, I play guitar over them.

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smallGig.com
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As a songwriter, I need feedback on songs posted! Thanks!
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#162263 - 01/26/07 04:40 PM Re: styles vs midi flles
Vquestor Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 554
Hasn't anyone tried the new MM4.04? http://www.midimaestro.com/index.html

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#162264 - 01/26/07 08:36 PM Re: styles vs midi flles
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4724
Appreciate the replies:

Good to know there are the "hard core" successful arranger players out there.

I can also appreciate where dnj and semi are coming from, as I haven't ruled out midi/mp3 at this stage.

Semi - any midi links?

Diki, I am cheating as I hit the arranger setup button while on a midi, and just play R1 while faking the left hand (muted) - thus, don't have to really play full scale. Ghads, makes me want to puke.

Vquestor - have you purchased this software?

Best regards,

zuki
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Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Nord 6D73/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/ATEM Mini Pro switcher/K&M stand

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#162265 - 01/26/07 09:10 PM Re: styles vs midi flles
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
I posted this answer long ago, but it seems time to resurect it !

I've been performing as a solo artist since WAY before arrangers or midi were introduced. I played straight piano(Rhodes) first, then added Moog bass(left hand) then a drum machine and finally, when midi was introduced ... I layered a synth with a second sound for my right hand "color" sounds while keeping a dedicated keyboard for piano parts.
This lasted till the arrangers finally put good sounding drum machines in the keyboards. after that ... I slimmed down to just one keyboard, but still played all the bass and piano parts live to the rhythm machine looped patterns.
At first - the idea of using an "oom paa" (arranger) backing was unacceptable to me, but slowly, the patterns got better and better .... so I caved and used a few at a time. I spaced them out and used the arranger sparingly.

With the advent of midi ...many players started using sequences to add the hands that they could not provide, and give them a competitive edge with guys like me - that could get a party dancing with just MY hands. Well ................ the midi sounds got better and better, and pretty soon, the accepted "norm" in the trenches (clubs and parties) included at least at SOME level ... midi backing tracks. This was all taking place at the same time that the "K" word was being introduced from Japan. The K-Jays were getting about $300 or more per show to just emcee the night. Made me sad ... but I still worked the same schedule. 5 and 6 night a week and lots of afternoon parties and studio sessions. DJ's only hurt the bad musicians, or bad business people.

If you were a singer or guitarist in the 70's and 80's working clubs and eeking out a living ..... it became almost impossible as the 90's drew near. Bands were downsized to fit the diminishing budgets in the rooms and rising insurance rates due to DUI laws kept the clubs from paying a lot for live music. The returns just weren't there. At least at a "K" show .... people came in. Granted - they act like morons, but they DO fill the seats.

My point is this:

Many fine singers, drummers, guitarists etc. that used to work a lot were out of work all of a sudden due to downsizing. What do you do if you are the piano player in a 5 piece band? You play piano right? Do you play everyone else's parts too? NO.
I see nothing wrong with playing YOUR instrument to the capacity you are able, along with accompaniments by either live musicians, midi tracks or arranger patterns.

I see no difference in the validity of the performance.

My people come to see me make a show.
I make parties.
I set tempos.
I pick WHAT to do and WHEN.
I get paid to keep the action rolling.
I sometimes use arranger patterns, sometimes manual bass and drums, sometimes midi sequences, and sometimes I use custom made audio tracks from my studio with backing vocals and extra instruments. All these tools provide me with a means to an end. They allow me to express my creative talents to make a show.
Pushing fill-ins and selecting variations takes as much time, energy and expertise as it does to play creative, two fisted parts on a kb while a sequence plays the rest of the band's parts. Just like we ALL used to do when we had live playing members in the band. Remember bands?????

I miss playing funky clav parts to disco and R&B tunes. It's much more authentic and energetic if I sequence the backing tracks and play my ass off on the D6 or the Rhodes. Even when I play bass ... I can manage to get the groove happenin' with just those 2 hands, but it's harder to make a full sound because SOMETHING is always left out.

I like arrangers. I like sequences. I like simple piano chords. In short ......

I

Like

Music.

I like playing it, and I like the people to like LISTENING and DANCING to it.
I find that mostly - senior audiences are the quickest to accept a "canned" arrangement of a song, while the younger crowds definitely respond to the sequences more. I am STILL working the keys and the crowd ... but in a different way.

My basic rule of thumb is this:

If it WORKS .... keep doing it.

So many times at weddings you'll hear 4 or 5 fast, modern tunes in a row and only a handful of barefoot, beer-drinking girls are dancing. Then a slow standard comes on and the floor FILLS up! Does the entertainer follow that with another slow one? Usually no. They change gears again and lose MOST of the dance floor.
Idiot behavior. Give 'em what they like.

Today's music is getting more and more "signature" specific with certain riffs and catch phrases that make it impossible for an arranger pattern to do justice to the song. If your crowd is over 40 (55 really) .... you have a shot at acceptance using arranger patterns, but the younger people see it as "hokey" and sophmorish.
I tend to agree. In low volume settings, especially. Sequences are lame when played softly. They need the energy from the movement of air, since there is NO one sending the energy into the performance at THAT specific moment.

In many cases - I'd rather play a left hand bass line and right hand chords to a drum beat than use a generic, overused pattern that sounds like every other player that owns a PA80. I like that intimate, small combo sound that only manual bass can provide. There is much more energy and "groove" when the piano and bass are in sync. For bigger sound - the sequence is the winner. The arranger fits somewher in between the two. (easy fellas ....... it's just MY views)

To summarize ....... there is NOTHING fake about using backing patterns, tracks, sequences, or whatever - as long as YOU are in control of the performance and you are playing YOUR part along with it. If you want to be a "front person" - that's OK too ... just don't fake it on dead keys. Get out in front and sing to the clients. They are VERY used to that concept.
Playing arrangers is a shortcut to a good sound, but it should not be a DESTINATION to aspire to. Use these tools to help you learn how to put it all together .... then go do it ! The important thing is energy. That comes from hard work Learn the parts !
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