Doesnt it bother you that the manaufacturer of a product that is already on the market being sold as a market ready machine cant put up demos of the instrument using well balanced styles using Giga samples ? If it is too much trouble to balance the imported styles or demo the "openness using giga" through its demo styles or cant be bothered to, does that bode well for potential purchasers ?

Jonesey Boy i have been rushed off my feet trying to get ready for Christmas . Can i call you first thing in the new year to come check out the MS ?

Spalding..... couldn't agree more.

Everything about this machine screams 'potential' rather than 'actual'.

Like I said, Domenik, quit adding new features to the OS (unless that is in a 'potential' state, too) and voice this thing to better a T2 OOTB, and you've got MY money......

Sure - anytime...you have my number.
Al the best

I've worked hard to get all the gear that I have and nothing was ever given to me. If my priorities are different from yours and I feel investing lots of money into my gear is worth while, its what I do.

I don't gig but I do travel extensively with my gear on recording sessions. I constantly lug around lots of gear and not once have I ever ruled out buying a piece of equipment due to its weight. FYI... I carry my own gear around, I don't have roadies. If I did need them I'd most certainly hire them.

Perhaps your sound live can be accomplished with a PSR3000, Tyros II, PA1X or some other arranger but mine can't. If anyone ever comes out with a lightweight keyboard that rivals my existing gear I'd buy it but so far that hasn't happened yet. Of course YMMV.

Hey guys..
I really don't understand why you there have to discuss about the MS weight.
The Mediastation X-76 is weight only 26Kg.

The Korg PAX pro weight 19.5Kg
The GEM Genesis S weight 27Kg
The Roland E-80 weight 22.5Kg
The Korg OASYS 76 weight about 32Kg
A lot of other professional keyboards weight much more than the Mediastation and I really don't see what is the problem from 5-6Kg more than other keyboards.

Remember that the T2 is only a home keyboard, full bulding in plastic, short and NOT weighted 61 keys keyboard.
Like a lot of other this range keyboards are developed only for home gig's.
You will never see one professional musician in one big band playing with this keyboards, they will use only big shape and robust professional keyboards.

So..better stop with the weight arguments because I really don't care and I will not listen.
MAYBE when the Korg Oasys, Wersi made the same keyboard weight 19Kg...then we think about too to design again the mediastation and put ONLY plastic parts.

Fortunally the big orders come only from the Oriental area and they don't care about the weight BUT of the features.
They finally are happy to LOAD how MANY Mb/Gb of Oriental sounds that they need without limits.
Still the last new Oriental keyboard give they 20-30 new oriental mono sounds ( because is always the same...limited to load just some Mb of sounds and SLOW time loading untill the sounds is ready...just see under T2) we continue have more orders chance and slow slow we are covering the other brands too.

About the sounds:
T2 have only a fixed 504 map sounds and then is over.
Before end this year our Oriental sounds/styles developer have ready the cloned 504 GIGA Tyros 2 sounds too and then we can CLOSE the argument IF the MS can play the all T2 sounds too.

MS right now have a basic GM soundbank GIGA library of 1620 sounds + the about 700 GM sounds + about the 300 Synth patch sounds + the 40 basic B4 Patch presets...i have to continue?
Of course not all of this sounds are full amazing but of course more than the 70% are really good and you still can have the possibility to choose the only sounds that you like OR just load new sounds too.
After you add the more 504 T2 sounds I think finally you are happy.
Maybe later they will clone some more keyboards too.
I will suggest my MS clients to buy this: http://www.extranslator.com/
then you are able to clone all what you want, just with some euro...

About the styles:
I agree too that we don't have so nice styles like the T2 and of cousre no another keyboard like the Korg or Roland have the same nice styles of the T2 too.

After we will release the update ISO 1.4 with the new Linuxsampler 4 GM/GS we will remap again the all styles under giga format and release the other 300 styles too.
Untill this update we will not editing new styles because then we will make the double work for nothing.
Soon we will release the new Arranger editor features too, integrated with the new LS 4.
If you then will downloading the cloned T2 soundbank, we will include the Midi Mapper soundbank file LSCP linked to the T2 library, in this way you are able to play the all T2 styles too with the same T2 sounds.

From today I have already another 22 MS OS updates that you there don't have, because need the new LS 4. We will release all this new features when the ISO 1.4 is ready to download, just some more days patience.

Untill will come available this all updates..you have the totally freedom to criticize the MS but please..try to find VALID arguments and not stuff like the weight...
Freedom mean that you still are FREE to buy the keyboard that you much like, we will NOT force anynoe to buy the MS if you are not interested.
We don't need to contine posting new audio+video demos to convince you there when you are not interested.
We have to give you more balanced styles, this we know and for sure you will receive it soon and ALWAYS for FREE.

Anyway, good arranger or not, like or not, but the MS with the all features and tools included in the OS, still remain the TOP worldwide keyboard and not another professional keyboards can compete.
For me the ONLY keyb advanced can be the OASYS, but when in the MS we open this: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/ardur.png
with ton of GIGA sounds and VST...
and then this: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/images/cinelerra.jpg
is automatically killled out.

An open keyboard is only expensive in the short term, in the long term it is cheap. (Example below)

Tyros Open and Close.

Close.
Tyros 2 comes out, trade in Tyros for new board, (Expensive) Tyros 3 comes out, trade in Tyros 2 for new board. (Expensive)

Open.
Tyros 2 comes out, purchase software (And if required hardware parts) and your Tyros becomes Tyros 2, (Cheap) Tyros 3 comes out, purchase software (And if required hardware parts) and your Tyros 2 becomes Tyros 3. (Cheap)

Styles are very personal, so it is unlikely any manufacture can please everybody all of the time, but by using style conversion software, users can pick and choose, the downside to this is that most conversion is done on a separate computer and then tweaked once loaded in the keyboard, however if you have an open keyboard the computer is built in, and so you can do it all in one go.

To fully understand an open keyboard, you really need to own one or play one for a good length of time. However once you do, you will realise just how limited hardware based boards are.

Good thread this

Bill

First things first....... Ensnareyou, I never said anyone gave you any money for your rig, I am sure you got it the old fashioned way (hard work and lots of talent!) and in no way intended to denigrate your achievement. Too much reading between the lines.... I try to do my best to say only EXACTLY what I mean. Sorry if you took it any other way.....

I kind of thought that you weren't extolling the Mediastation for it's arranger capabilities, but it's GIGA and VST playback potential, and from what you've said (no gigs, just recording, with the help of several other keyboards too) it seems I was close to the truth. No implied criticism, just an acknowledgment that you use your keyboards a little differently to most of us here.

For those of us that use an arranger for gigging, and as part of our recording workflow, the option exists to use computers for the VST and GIGA sounds, rather than needing an expensive keyboard to achieve what our studio rigs are already capable of, so for us, I guess the question remains - why a Mediastation if we already have VST capabilities?

The answer for most of us would probably be 'If it was better than our current arranger.....' which, until Domenik nails the styles, sadly can't be said. But you (and Domenik) are right, change is on it's way, and I look forward to it.

I am curious...... if you DID gig live, solo (like so many here do) what of your equipment list would you take for a gig, on the understanding that you would have to hump it all yourself? Once again, don't read between the lines, I'm just curious, that's all!

As to the weight thing..... I completely understand your point of view, I lug around the 20.5kg G70 in a full flight case myself. It's what I need, so no choice. But 33kg (a single manual Abacus) plus a flight case is getting into two strong men country there, and few local solo gigs pay the money to afford a two-man roady crew! It's not a B3, but it could still do some damage to us over 50 guys!

Domenik...... I don't believe I ever criticized the SOUND of the Mediastation. I am only too aware of the great sound you can get with GIGA and VST. But to use it as an ARRANGER, the styles have to rock at least as hard as the sound-set, otherwise it's a fancy workstation. I am looking forward to hearing the new styles, with VST and GIGA instruments included (have you got BFD or DFH2 working in the MS?)..... But I repeat again (and I'm TRYING to be constructive, here.... I want to see your success as much as you do), you HAVE to use the T2's and E80's and PA1X's demos as a benchmark for the quality of your website 's demos. And, by the way, I think the E80 AND the PA1X (and my G70!) ALL have style demos that better your current web demos. This isn't JUST about the T2.....

They ARE your competition, no matter what you would like..... If a potential arranger buyer doesn't get a MS, these are what they will get instead. So please, find a brilliant player to fully show off the capabilities of the MS rather than leaving it up to the listener to IMAGINE the potential. Your sales department will thank you for it....!

Untill will come available this all updates..you have the totally freedom to criticize the MS but please..try to find VALID arguments and not stuff like the weight...
"Freedom mean that you still are FREE to buy the keyboard that you much like, we will NOT force anynoe to buy the MS if you are not interested.
We don't need to contine posting new audio+video demos to convince you there when you are not interested.
We have to give you more balanced styles, this we know and for sure you will receive it soon and ALWAYS for FREE"

You just dont get it Dom do you. The comments here are from people interested in buying the MS but they simply want to ensure the instrument is ready for their needs. It blatantly is not right now.After which update in the future will it be ???

Abacus a few weeks ago posted a demo of a cloned T2 style and it was amazing. Abacus is not trying to sell wersi keyboards for them, (although he i doing a darned good job of it )he has no vested interest in wersi sales but he has listened to the feedback on this forum and literally closed the deal for wersi (as far as i am concerned) simply by providing what we as musicians want.Good styles well balanced and great sounds using an "open system".He has shown not just what the instrument might possibly do in the future but its capabilities now. If you cant take the positive and very sensible feed back from this forum to improve your product then i wish you the best of luck with your oriental sales because clearly you are struggling here.

You don't care and won't listen? that will get you a lot of customers, yeah right. I don't want to fight with you, man, because i may be on the verge of trading for an Ms X76 and will need to have a good relationship. But your attitude is not going to make you the king of keyboard sales, that's for sure. It's just the opposite of what you are saying about home keyboards. Sure the big boys who have roadies and such will use the biggest and best keyboards available, why not? For all the rest of us pros, those big keyboards become the "home' studio units, and the so-called "home" units like T2 etc. become the units we take to the gigs, because we don't have roadies or want to break our bodies down just because something
is "better"..we know we can make good music on "plastic".
Even if i get your MS X76, I will be taking a new E60 or pa800 or in the interim my old Korg is35 or Technics Kn2600 to my gigs, and use yours at home, unless there
is a very very special event I want to pull out all stops for and get some friends to help me with the big load. All the
units you compare yours to fall into the same problem for us, it's not that yours is heavier than theirs, it's that they are all too heavy for our gigging use, and that represents a whole lot more customers for you than the ones you are
gunning for now. If you don't care about that, fine. It's amazing how lightweight plastic becomes denigrated by all the purveyors of steel and wood units. If a kb is well constructed electronically, it doesn't matter 99% of the time that the shell is plastic. Plastic can be very well constructed as well as poorly built, and can hold up for many many years of normal use. After i had my is35 for a while, i bought a similar i30 on ebay, on the reports that it had some superior features to the is35, and it was better constructed from metal. Well, i sold it 2 weeks later, because it was so much heavier, and the few slightly better sounds were not enough to overcome that. That plastic is35 still serves me well, and has held up through lots of hard knocks. Please understand, none of this is intended as a criticism of the Mediastation, which sounds like a wonderful instrument i would like to have. it's just
that there will always be limitations on your sales if you
are 60 lbs, whereas if you were 30 you would have a product that would be more usable for 90% of pros. So that's why i said it can not be the future at 60lbs, but it can be something wonderful nevertheless. All the best.



------------------
Miami Mo

Thank you Dom.
Now I will never had to bother reading remarks about the MS again, because it will never be on my list of gear to consider. Not just because it is too heavy, but also because the designer refuses to listen to potential customers.
DonM