http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
This will help - but no English web site probably a poor move...they should really be shouting to the UK/USA Markets and any other English speaking countries about their products if they are serious about developing in these countries/Markets..
Hope the link helps,
Regards
Mark! [QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]Amen to that website....



[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 12-21-2006).]

I found the downloads most helpful thanks so what does the abacus cost? you may email me if you like.


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qqqwq@hotmail.com

Hi Mike
I notice from your profile that you are in the US, so you will need to get in touch with Wersi in Lancaster, PA, as I am in the UK and simple currency conversion doesn’t work. (Prices always seem to be lower in the US)
However if I can be of any other help just let me know

Bill

Thanks for those links Bill. I need to clarify my understanding of how many VST sounds the Wersi can hold at any one point in time.Am i right in my understanding that it can hold a maximum of 4 VST's at any one point in time ? does that mean for example that you could have a VST bass , drums, guitar and piano in lets say style 1 but would be limited to use the same VST's in style 2 if you chose to use VST's?

If thats the case it makes the whole open system USP much weaker than i first thought as i would not necessarily want to use the same VST sounds in every style and certainly not want to be limited to just 4. Is there any particular reason for this limitation ? I understand the limitless updating angle of open systems and that the functionality of the board can be developed in the future without buying new hardware in terms of a board with keys but in terms of pulling the software and functionality together , are'nt you still tied to the proprietory manufacturer in terms of future functionality of the board ?

If i have misunderstood this can you helpme out ? I could find no data on the cost of updating to OAS7 (and no demo's of what the new OAS7 does ) but i read that it does come at a cost. Whilst i believe that this is a more sustainable business model for Wersi going forward, the MS promises that all future updates will be free to MS users. Whilst that does not mean a whole lot right now it could be a real deal breaker in the future once the MS has sorted out its current problems. Any idea what the cost of upgrading to the OAS7 might be in £'s.

Thanks for all the (constructive) input in this thread guys - I've found it VERY enlightening as I too am interested in the MS for my next keyboard.

This Question:

"Am i right in my understanding that it can hold a maximum of 4 VST's at any one point in time ? does that mean for example that you could have a VST bass , drums, guitar and piano in lets say style 1 but would be limited to use the same VST's in style 2 if you chose to use VST's?

If thats the case it makes the whole open system USP much weaker than i first thought as i would not necessarily want to use the same VST sounds in every style and certainly not want to be limited to just 4."

needs to be answered quickly and properly (IMO) as this is THE most important info I've seen in regards to the sounds and flexibility of the MS.

VSTs and Giga Sounds are all very well, but if you can only use them in a very limited way, then............

The Wersi can host 4 VST's at once although that does not limit you to four VST sounds at once. If for example your VST is multitimbral and is 64 voice polyphonic, you could theoretically play many sounds from that VST up to the maximum polyphony. The Wersi is unique in that once VST sounds are loaded into the sound banks, it does not differentiate between VST, factory, AKAI, or other third party sounds, it just sees a VST sound as if it were a factory sound. Want to play a VST sound, just hit the appropriate sound bank your favorite VST sound is loaded into and its there. The Wersi can support more than 4 VST's but in OAS 7 the host for the VST's has four VST slots. There are ways to work around adding and using additional VST's but processor speed limits the number you can run effectively. Its reported that some user have run as many as 16 VST's at once using Cubase as the host.

The Mediastation can host far more VST's than the Wersi (up to 64 I believe) but that is all in theory. Which VST you use, how much processor power and RAM it needs, and the type of sound files you play will greatly diminish the number of VST's you can run at once. It doesn't matter if the VST's are playing back from a Wersi, Mediastation, NEKO, or your home computer, all are limited by processor power and RAM.

The Wersi OAS 7 upgrade from OAS 6 is around $700-$800 USD. If you have an older version of OAS you might need to upgrade some hardware therefore the upgrade would cost a bit more. The price is very reasonable considering you are getting a VST host, new sequencer, many new sounds, new styles, new FX, new Real Drums, a VST analog synth emulator, FM synth, Wavetable synth, improved B4 interface, and a much improved sampler. In fact all the original OAS 6 factory sounds have been resampled to utilize the new and improved sampling rate of the OAS 7 sampler. You get all that plus much more. Its definitely a major jump from OAS 6 and well worth the cost of upgrade.

Yes you are right
All depend how much ram and CPU power you have installed in the MS.
IN the MS don't give a limits to hosting VST, we can open how many we like, here one small example: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/vst.png http://www.lionstracs.com/store/vst-free-p-142.html http://www.lionstracs.com/store/msiso-14-p-152.html

About the styles under VST is a totally different stuff, it is possible of course but then need to remap the sounds styles under the VST opened. It mean that you have to change the Program change/Bank of each pattern to the right sound of the VST.
IF then you will recall this VST styles and you don't have run before the all VST setup used for this style, will NOT work.

For that we prefer use only GIGA sounds from the GigaLibrary folder because Linuxsampler is always RUN, will hosting the all GIGA sounds available.
In this way when you switch in realtime the styles you will always find the all sounds working.

Not well understand why Wersi still use the Cubase seq for hosting the VST and not another open VST host. I tough that under native Windows is possible open how many VST in realtime we like instead the MS use a emulation Windows under Wine support that is able to run up how many VST we want.
I'm NOT criticize the Wersi at all, I really like a lot this keyboard too and I know how much hard is developing OS with a closed windows source, where sometime is not possible fix bugs or limitation features because they don't have the OS souce code.

Try to understand our position too, we are a fresh company that in less 3 years we have developed all the software missing in one keyboard workstation. All the others brands have more than 20-30 years story and they can recycle/update the all stable embedded software for a new keyboard model.
Do not think that they have to remake always from scratch the software for make a new model, they have only to adapt the software to the new hardware.

If I like to make a new MS expander with small dimension, we have only to copy the MS OS in the new expander system and ignore the all hardware not used for this product. In 3 months I have developed the X-88 piano, this mean that if I like, I can develope in some months the expander too, BUT we recycle the all available software.

I think you have understand what I mean.

Thanks for that Dom and Ensnare you. So if i have understood this the following is possible on both the wersi and the MS
1. You can have installed and available potentially more than 4 VST' sounds on the machine at anyone time subject to polyphony limitations (in case of wersi) and CPU capabilities and Ram
2. Selecting the VST's in normal (eg. piano mode ) is relatively easy to access and use.But selecting sounds to use as arranger backing is much more complex but theorectically possible. From what you are saying dom it sounds like you have managed to deal with Giga sounds more effectively (at least in theory) so that they can be played and used just as a proprietory system would use them and i am keen to see a demo of this .

Either way both boards currently are not ready to play VST's or Giga sounds within styles the way that ordinary arranger players would like to use the sounds. And only the MS has definate plans to be able to play giga samples within styles like an ordinary arranger player would use them but does not do so yet.

If i have understood this correctly then really this needs to be made clear from the outset otherwise customers ready to buy either board right now based upon the theorectical technological potential of the MS or Wersi will get a rude awakening when they actually play the unit.

Thanks for that info on the cost of the OAS7. So in theory updateing the keyboard with the OAS7 plus aditional hard ware purchases could be just under $1000 USD ?

I understand that you are getting a lot for that jump in functionality but i think that the idea of free life time updates via MS would be infinately the more sensible way to go providingthat open systems can actually do what an aranger player wants (at least this one)now as pposed to some time in the future

Last bit comment from me.

Sounds like both Wersi and MS potentially are amazing instruments but their practical use for arranger players is suspect (at least as far as i can see)

The clincher for me is whether the steep learning curve necessary to use either the MS or Wersi is worth the effort based upon the improvement in sounds and styles.

This is why i would love for wersi and MS to repost the styles they have done in this thread using their best giga /vst sounds wihin the styles so that i can hear ( as best as i can from demos on the net ) whether the improved sound is worth the future uncertainty,cost and effort.

Uncertainty = neither manufacturer has provided demo's actually showing the use of the technology that it is theorectically capable of.I am not impressed with the support/responses from either wersi or MS when making queries about the instruments. I would still be reliant on the maufacturer to provide future updates to pull the technological improvemnets toegther in a form a musician (not a technician) can use.

Cost= both instruments are a good chunk of money especially the wersi

Effort= they both sound pretty complicated machines although the increase in potential would be worth it but i have to get past all this "theorising" and see how the reality of the instrument plays out in the hands of a "competant" musician.

Still hoping either Dom or any other MS user would follow through on this request regarding reposting the styles...

Sorry for the long post.

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-22-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-22-2006).]

Spalding1, you still don't have understand how the MS is working, no problem, I try again to explain you the MS concept.

MS is READY right now to play in the arranger GIGA files OR connect the arranger to one VST plugin too.

In the last OS 1.3, we still available to load GIG or GM/GS DSP sounds for each midi track in the arranger.

After you have load one style, we can press EDIT: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/styleedit.png
there whe choose one of the 12 possibile sounds setup of each styles, it mean that we can have more soundset setup for each styles and choose what is the best for this performance.
after you have select one preset sound setup you get the Channels UI: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/channels.png
There you touch the desidered miditrack to edit, for example Bass under GM/GS DSP: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/chaedit.png
and you choose from the DSP GM the sounds that you like, edit the all values and press ENTER to SAVE it.

IF you dont like have the GM/GS DSP sound, you can press the key GIGA and you get this UI: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/gigapara.PNG
there you can browser from the HD GigaLibrary the xxx.gig file that you like and link the track to play with this file. In this mode, the linuxsampler will load the giga sounds and then play it, more BIG is the file, more seconds you have to wait before the all tracks are playing., Normally with 6/8 GIGA sounds of about 100Mb, need about 1 second to be ready.

Now, in the NEW OS 1.4 we have the Linuxsampler 4, with the GM/GS Soundbank: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/images/LSampler4.jpg
It mean that we can have READY the all GIGA sounds from the list is realtime, withot latency for loading it, because we can choose if the sound MUST persistent in RAM.
In this way the new LS 4 is working like the GM/GS DSP, the all sounds are always present like a normally expander with Prg/Bank selector.
with this new feature we can open noow this UI: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/gigags.png
when the two keys GM/GS and GIGA are ON, we read the sounds from the GIGA soundbank in realtime without any latency.
This is the BIG features that only the MS have.
Now, after we release this update ( for free of course) you can map yourself the all T2 sounds under GIG format.
You have to insert in the soundbank the same sound of the T2 with the same Program change and Bank select how you have in your T2.
After you have done this, Load in the MS one T2 styles ( converted by EMC Export to sequencer patterns) and the MS will play the same sounds, because with the same Prg/Bank saved in the style will send it to the GIGA soundbank and the LS will respond with the same sounds that you gave before.
The only work that you have more to do is levelling the volumes how you like.

Let me know if you have understand..

Hello Spalding
The polyphony of the VST is limited by a combination of the VST itself, the CPU and Ram, and not by Wersi. (The large VST sample sets normally have around 256 note polyphony)
Once the VST is loaded in if you wish to use it in the styles you follow this procedure.
1. Select your style
2. Press Quick Edit on the Main Screen
3. Select the voice you wish to change
4. On the screen that appears select the voice you require. (If you require sounds just from the VST, select this in the drop down Window )
5. Save the style in one of the User style banks
6. Map this edited style to a style button. (You can also use the Quickload button on the Main Screen, as each Total Preset (Registration) can store up to 9 different styles)
7. Done. (Whenever you select this style the VST voice will be included)
The Wersi system is designed specifically for ease of use, and in a lot of respects is easier then the PA1X, but not quite as easy as a Yamaha. (If Yamaha do one thing well then ease of operation is it)
All New instruments come with OAS 7 as standard so you will not need to upgrade.
Cost to existing uses (OAS 6) is £370 + Fitting (An Internal Plug- in board has to be changed to run OAS 7)

Lionstracs
You only needed to use the Cubase VST host up to OAS 6, it is not required for OAS 7, however if you upgrade, Cubase is still left loaded into the system, and so can still be used.
Hope this helps

Bill