Besides obvious price difference and sampling, which one has better sounds (drums, piano, etc.) for someone who is a songwriter? A purchase is dependent upon the answer!

cam8neel,

No matter what response you get here, a personal & physicall try-out of both is recommended prior to purchase...trust me!
AJ

I am with Ketron_AJ 100% over here you will get biased responses from every where ! :-)

I realize that. Problem is no dealers in my area have either one in stock! Arghhhhhh!

If the rumors about o.s. 3 for PA-80 are true I would recomend that but if you can wait till january 2001 I would sujest you to do so winter NAMM will bring newer keyboards and newer o.s. for many keyboards but if you are in a hurry I will sugest that download the manuals for both keyboards (2000 and PA-80) and compare them keeping your needs in mind.

cam8neel,

I have heard lots of Demo's of the PA80, but none of the PSR 2000 - because I don't think there are any online demos yet for this.

However, since I rate the PA80 very highly "sound wise" against the Yamaha Pro 9000, then my impression will be that it is better than the PSR 2000. It has TWICE as much memory for starters (16MB on PSR 2000, but 32MB on PA80). This makes a big difference when it comes to the sounds alone.

Another reason. The PSR is a "passing" keyboard (IMO) for those that can't afford the much more expensive (and heavier) 9000 models. It is a Budget keyboard in other words. The PA80 on the other hand is a Pro keyboard in its own right, and is KORG's BEST arranger. So from a neutral point of view, I would definitely go for the PA80. If you can't try one out, then DO listen to the Demo's of the PA80 (if you haven't done already that is), and see what you think.

J5

The PSR 2000 has almost all of the same sounds as the PSR 9000. I think they are fantastic. The piano, while it doesn't have the depth of a real grand, sounds every bit as good as my 2 gig gigastudio piano when it is within an ensemble. I am super happy with these sounds.
I have been able to create some very moving pieces using the PSR 740 and Cakewalk Pro Audio 9. I have heard that Yamaha styles are better than the Korg.
I am super happy with the Yamaha's sounds and styles.
Now if you are going to do your sequencing all with the keyboard, you better do your homework, because the Korg might have a lot going for it that the Yamaha does not. But if you are using your computer, I would say that the Yamaha is a safe bet.
And as far as performing, the old folks I play for at the Park Districts, senior centers, and nursing homes go gaga over the music that comes out of my PSR 740. I already purchased the PSR 2000, because it has a few extra goodies that he PSR 740 doesn't have.

I can't really speak about the Korg PA80. All I can say is that I am absolutely in love with my Yamaha.

If you are doing computer based recording as a songwriter, you have to also take into account, the difference in price and what you can get for the money. If the PSR 2000 is at least $600 cheaper when you factor in purchasing the hard drive and vocalizer for the PA80, you should consider what you can get for that $600. I purchased Gigastudio and some great piano samples and acoustic guitar samples. When I edit my songs, I use my PSR 2000 to trigger the lush acoustic guitars and real bass sounds that Gigastudio can offer.
All in all, you should think about what goodies you can get for the same price. For example, even though a Mercedes beats a Toyota Camry, you can buy a family sized boat with your Camry and still pay the same price.
You should do a search at this website with keywords so you can find out more about what other peoples' impressions are of these keyboards. Well, since almost no one has the PSR 2000, you can search for PSR 740, and realize that the PSR 2000 is a souped up version. It has about 20 more of Yamaha's newest voices, 20 more onboard styles, the capacity to hold about 20 more user styles, easy access to styles on your floppy disk, and improved access of voice and style registrations, and better sequencing features.

I own both the PSR740 and the PA80. For my own tastes, overall, I prefer the sounds of the PA80 over the 740, but as many have said before me, sounds are subjective and a matter of personal taste. In particular I like the drums, organs, and electric guitars and basses quite a bit better, with most of the other sounds fairly close. I also like the full synth edit capability of the PA80. This is not to say that I don't like most of the sounds on the 740. I do like them. I haven't tried the 2000 yet, but having played around extensively with the Motif and 9000 series, I wouldn't expect that the sounds will be much different on the 2000, although I realize that there are a few new ones that the 740 doesn't have. I cannot comment much on the features, suffice it to say the PA80 has many more than the 740 but still could benefit from a few upgrades to the current O/S. The PA80 has much more detail in the styles than the 740..many 8 bar styles as opposed to 1 and 2 bar yamaha styles. I guess for some, simpler might be better, depending on what you want to use the styles for, ( simple styles work very well on many of the standards that gigging musicians might play for an audience ), but for me the PA80 styles are much more complex and varied and for me that works well. The 740 is a very good board to just plug in and play though. It is a very simple board to operate, and I too have made quite a few good sounding tunes with it, enhanced by my xg editing software. Although the 2000 will have more features than the 740, I would expect that it too will be an easy board to work with. The PA80 has a steeper learning curve and is quite a bit more complicated, especially in using the different sequencer modes and also in editing sounds and creating new ones from scratch using the raw samples.

Like so many have said before, it is very beneficial if at all possible to try the boards out side by side. I also realize that this is not possible for some of us. The next best thing is to compare with what you can find on the net, operating manuals, sound samples ( the 9000 and 740 series should give you a fairly good idea if not completely accurate ), and then when you do make a choice, be sure to order your board from a dealer who will accept a return within a specified period ( 30 days is a good time period ), so that if you do not care for the board you can return it for full value. Good luck..


"Korg" AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 10-06-2001).]

Hi everybody...

Yesterday I had my first session with a PSR2000. Absolute fantastic board for this low price. And I made a comparision to the PA80, cause both boards stand in the same room of my local music dealer. I think both boards are really good, with their special features. Therefore you have to hear it first. My decicion was to order a PSR2000 cause I like the lightly weight, the superb user Interface and the fantastic price (about 1500 DM less than the PA80)

If somebody want to hear a demo of PSR2000, check this:
www.psr2000.de sorry only in German

Datablues

The PA80's styles might be more complex, but the PSR 2000 has more intros, variations, and fills per style. Doesn't the PA80 have just 2 drum fills per style? The PSR 2000 has 4. So there are pluses and minuses.

The PA-80 has 2 intros, 2 endings, 4 fills, break count, and 4 variations

You are right about everything but the fills. It only has two fills. I just read this at a site selling the PA80. Could someone who owns the beast verify this?

Larry

Thank you so much, Datablues! What a big help you are! I would love to hear a sample of the ballad-type analog pop style in mp3. Hoewever, you have been a big help. I need to know as much about tis keyboard as possible. I hear nothing but good things (as long as it's not compared to the BIG buck keyboards). I've also heard good things about the PA-80, but also many bad.

sorry my bad 2 fills

Yes, the PA80 only has 2 fills per style. This however, is the only thing about the Yamaha styles that I prefer as opposed to the Korg styles. I'm also not a big fan of having to go to a fill to get to the next style as the 740 does ( yes I know the trick of hitting the next variation button twice rapidly to avoid having the fill come in, but for me this is rather awkward to do when playing the board live.. I have enough things to think about already..). In spite of the 2 fill limitation, I still much prefer the sounds and realism of the PA80 styles as compared to the 740s ( and the 9000s for that matter.

In addition, many of eight bar Korg styles have a fill at the 8th ( last ) bar in the main variations themsleves and some even a "half" fill at bar 4 . For me the eight bar style variations are not as repetitive in many instances as the Yamaha 1 and 2 bar styles are. Also, for many of the styles, different chord types (major, minor. 7ths etc ) trigger different subvariations within each main variation itself. Hands down to my ears the Korg styles sound much more realistic but again sound is subjective and as a few said before me, in some cases simpler can be better, depending on your needs.

I often only use the factory styles as scratch pads or starting points for my own compositions. I often don't use styles at all in more complex pieces, but if I do use styles, they are usually my own. My own styles seem to sound much better on the PA80 than on the 740, and, when I incorporate the use of an external sequencer to aid me, the korg style / midi converter tool works well and sends all the proper settings back from my external midi file to the PA80 without the bother of having to do a Casm edit or worrying about markers. using the 740, I must carefully place and correctly spell out the markers and then send the files thru a CASM editor before sending the finished style back to the 740. When I finally do get my style back into the 740, often I find that the settings I used don't sound the way I wanted them to, so I have to further edit the styles in the board itself. Of course I might be able to avoid this problem if I shelled out the money for a program such as EMC styleworks. Unless the PSR2000 is heads and shoulders better than the 740, ( and close to the 9000 minus some of the features ) for me there would be no comparison whatsoever between the two boards.
Having said that, the PA80 is a minor disappointment to me in that the O/S is not where I thought it would be at this point, but if 3.0 gives it better sequencing editing capabilities and addresses a few other minor issues and glitches, I'd stack this board up against any of the "big boys" I've played for its sound quality alone. If you require sampling on your arranger though, the PA80 does not have it.

I think the main point to be considered though, as expressed by others many times in this forum, is that our opinions, however well intentioned, are somewhat biased by our own preferences. This is why it's so beneficial to try different boards out for ourselves. I happen to like both Yamaha and Korg boards in general and have owned several of each over the past 20+ years, and I've enjoyed using them all.

AJ

Hi Cam8Neel...

as I told you I ordered my PSR2000 already last Saturday. Before this I check it out and played it for about 2 hours. It's really a great machine with some very special new features in comparision to my old PSR740.
* You can load sound parameters an the fly from disk, not only from the internal memory.
* Cause I'm playing in a band with 4 muscicians, I do not need the ACMP-Functions very often. I'm more interested in sound programming, sound changing with help of DSPs and Sound organisation because we play our set list divided in blocks of four up to twelve songs. For this the sound organisation in the PSR2000 is fantastic.
* Another great feature is the possibility to decide on which voice the Pitch bend from an expression pedal is working. We are playing Country Music...who is doing the Steel Guitar?...It's me. With this keyboard I will get very close to a real Steel Guitar. I will layer two steel guitar sounds, one set to solo sound (only one note playing) and this sound is controlled by the Pitch Controller. This means during playing a C-Chord I can change the Pitch of one tone of the Chord, exactly the way you can do it with a Pedal Steel Guitar.

For me the PSR2000 is the best choice:
* Low Price
* Low weight
* Small dimensions
* Good Sound speaker system
* OS Update possible
* Really good user interface
* Professional design
* Power supply included in Germany
* A lot of fantastic presets (I want to play, not to program!)

I made my decision!

By the way...does anybody know how the pedal of Yamaha like the FC-7 works? Has it a simple potentiometer inside or what else? The reason for my question is, that I have a Roland Expression Pedal and I want to use it with the PSR2000 (maybe the PSR9000 has a similar electronic interface). In which way I have to modify it?

Greetings from Germany

Datablues

I have learned so much from all your posts, thank you! Let's get right down to it; can anyone compare the two strictly by the authenticity of their sounds? I especially want to know about the piano/strings/drums sounds, since those are the ones I will use most.

I believe we're getting off-topic, but I think but I'm not sure that Roland pedals are the opposite polarity of Yamaha pedals, so unless your expression pedal has a polarity switch, you might have problems using it on your Yamaha.

That pedal steel feature sounds wonderful. Please explain. Do you have to split the keyboard to use this feature? I always hoped for a pedal steel feature that only bends into the harmony of the left hand chord. I wonder if this is possible. I think the X1 might have a feature like this.

Larry

Ok..I am a bit hesitant to do this because sounds are so subjective to our individual tastes ...some may not agree and that is ok too...but...here goes my opinion of PSR740 and 9k vs PA80 sounds..As I stated before I like the PA80 styles better but here I'll just go by sounds. I own both the 740 and PA80 and have played extensively on the 9000 non pro model

by groups...

Pianos : here I like the PSR series better for bright acoustic piano sounds..although the PA80s more muted sounds work nicely too for some things..winner: Yamaha

El pianos: Both have many varieties..I like the vintage sounds a bit better on PA80, the modern sounds are both good Winner: PA80 slight edge

Organs: Both have very good organs and both have drawbar functions, but I much prefer the vintage B3 types on the PA80
Winner PA80

Mallett / bells: I dont use them enough to be able to give a good evaluation but from what I have used I'll call it even

accordians / harmonicas: love that sweet harmonica sound on the Yamaha..korg has a very decent harmonica sound..but not as good..Both have decent accordians..Winner: Yamaha

Acoustic guitars: Both have nice acoustic sounds.. very close here but I think the PA80 wins ..a bit more realistic for me.

Electric guitars: Big advantage for PA80..I think for me it is more in the effects than the samples themselves. I just hate the Yamaha distortion and OD digital effects. I even preferred the Casio MZ2000 electrics by far over the Yamahas. The PSRs are ok for rythyms but I wouldnt think of trying to imitate a raunchy blues solo with any of them. Electric blues and Modern Jazz / Jazz fusion are my staple genres so guitar sounds are big for me. The PA80 does a nice strat impression and I made my own " carlos" guitar sound program on the PA80 and love it.. Winner: PA80 big

Bass: I do a lot of bassline work too..Both are very competent.. I like the traditional bass sounds a bit better on the PA80. both have good synth bass sounds
Winner: slight edge to PA80

Strings: I like the ensembles on both..but I dont like the acoustic solo violins as much on the 740. The Yamaha can be improved vastly when I use the VL synthesis function on violins ( from seperate software )..It makes an improvement on acoustic violins..but out of the box I'll take the PA80s..which isnt perfect either. On the more synth side..I'll always prefer the Korg sounds, but Yamaha does a very nice jobn here too. winner: Korg

Trumphets / Trombones : both give a very good accounting of themselves..I love the Yamaha Mute trumpet but overall I give the PA80 a slight advantage here.

Brass: I don't use all that much brass..I'm not a traditional jazz or big band styled player as a rule..but I do like the sounds better on the PA80..winner : PA80

Saxophones: Another sound I love to use often: Both have very decent if not mind blowing sax sounds..I really like the folk sax on the pa 80 but the Yamaha growl sax rules on rock oriented songs. Overall I think the breathy sounds are a bit more realistic on the PA80. A lot of folks might be skeptical on this..but of the boards I've owned..nothing sounded as good to me as the velo sax sound from the MZ2000. still since this is korg vs yamaha..i'll give the edge to the PA80,..not withstanding the great growl sax of the Yamaha.

woodwinds/flutes: Love that sweet flute sound of the Yamaha..Korg has nothing quite as good..overall though..for the rest of the woodwinds its close.....I like the pa80 shaku and jazz flute sounds a lot.. winner: Yamaha for that one great flute sound.

Synth sounds: Yamaha has some good ones..and many that I use unedited ..but overall I like the PA80's better. In my opinion the staple of the Triton engine is its synth sounds. I haven't played much with the 9k synth engine and aside from using xg works add on software, the 740 has virtually no synth editing capabilities..so I would carefully check to see what the 2000 can do in that dept if synth editing is an issue for you..The PA80 has the editing capabilities of a pro synth.
Winner: PA80

Drums: both have good drums but again I prefer the korg sounds all though with some editing in xg works I can get the yamaha drums to sound alomost as good..Out of the box though..big advantage ovearll to PA80

FX...ok...there are so many that it is hard to generalize here..but...while both are very good I find that I prefer more of them on the PA80..winner Korg.

Ok so there is my take on it..I guess overall I prefer Korg sounds in general ( again that is very subjective though ) but for certain instruments ( that great sweet flute comes to mind ) I will definitely use my 740. If I could only use one, because the guitar and drum sounds are so important to me as well as the saxes..I'd easily go with the PA80 even against the 9000 if just judging sounds and styles alone... but features are another issue vs the 9000 ( not the 2000 though..it obviously wont have the features of a PA80 ) and Im waiting anxiuosly to see what the new os in the PA80 will do.. also..If acoustic piano is going to be your staple sound and the styles arent that big a deal..you might prefer the Yamaha..I've seen that many other people prefer the yamaha acoustic pianos and it's no mystery to me why..and for the price of a PA80 you may be able to find a left over 9000.. Drums and strings are competent enough on both and I'm sure you'll like either. If synth editing is a major consideration, them I would be careful to see what the 2000 offers. The PA80 is a top flight board for an arranger in that respect with no additional sampling capabilities but plenty of good raw samples to choose from internally. The 9k I think is also a very good board in that respect and does have some sampling capabilities

Good luck to you on your purchase...
AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 10-09-2001).]