I am new to synthesizer keyboards and am thinking about getting one for myself. I played simple instruments before (recorder, melodica etc.) and would like to explore electronic devices.

I definitely want something with a floppy drive so I can store and replay tunes.

Basically I am an amateur, so I don't need a high performance device. I would prefer something that produces sounds like the acoustic instruments it imitates. Am willing to spend between US$ 300-1500.

Also, is there something like a glossary where I can learn what all the technical terms mean - such as "XG voice" etc.?

PS: I am not sure if this is the right discussion forum for this type of question - if it is not, please let me know where I should post this. Thank you!

[This message has been edited by balidoy (edited 12-08-2000).]

If you can stretch your budget to $1800, I'll sell you a 1 month old Korg Triton. This board is selling for $2400 right now and is still the hottest selling synth/sampler/workstation on the market. You can't touch these for under two grand.
215-757-8598

Baliboy, your very new to synthesizer/keyboards, and the basics of XG, and Floppies!etc (must have a floppy?!) - and the last keyboard I would recommend for an amateur, would be something like a Korg Triton. or a Va7 for example.

The Yamaha 740 is the first keyboard that springs to mind, but since you have a budget (a wide ranging one it has to be said!) of up to $1,300, then think more Roland EM2000, Technics KN5000, Yamaha Psr 8000. and some korg models.

Basically your an amateur, so You don't need a high performance device you say, so leave the Triton, and go for a Keyboard like one of the above, and then add a budget sampler like the Yamaha ("SU models"), and you can get some great sounds there.!

EM2000 $1,100, yamaha Sampler, £200-300 = about $100 or so over your maximum budget. But if you want to experiment, and like XG voices, then try the PSR 740, although the EM2000 by Roland is a better keyboard (Personal taste).

The choice is wide!

Hi Baliboy

Just to confuse things--

I disagree that an amateur does not need "high-end" features. It does not take long for anyone who enjoys their keyboard to run into limitations and want to replace it. You need to think ahead of time about which features are important to you. I assume you are thinking about an arranger keyboard, since you asked your question in this forum.

1. Access to styles. Most mid-range and high-end arranger keyboards (almost all have floppy disk drives) allow custom styles to be used. There are thousands of custom styles available for free on the Web. At the low end, you may be able to load only one or a few styles at a time, and shuffly styles in and out using pile of floppy disks. In other cases, you can store 100 at a time in internal memory and access thousands from an internal hard disk. Some styles have four main variations, some keyboards can only play two main variations.

2. Vocal harmony. If you sing, having your vocal part harmonized along with the chords you are playing is a fun and even useful feature.

3. Aftertouch. Pianos do not use aftertouch. However, synths can emulate wind and string instruments which can be continuously modulated (e.g., by using bow pressure or breath). Aftertouch allows you to modulate a sound (e.g., its volume, brightness and/or vibrato) as it is sustained. There are other ways to accomplish the modulation, but aftertouch is the most convenient.

While I think that XG is an advantage--especially for sharing midi files, it is manufacturer specific. The best sounds are not XG anyway, and there are alternatives to it. I would not treat XG as an major factor in arranger selection.

Other people may have other features they consider critical. You need to think about which ones are important to you. If you cannot decide, spend at the low end of your range until you learn more about what you want.

The Yamaha PSR-740 may be a good choice. It has vocal harmony and plays 4-variation styles. Unfortunately, it can load only 3-4 styles at once and has no aftertouch. It is XG compatible.

The Yamaha PSR-640 is similar to the PSR-740 but lacks vocal harmony. (The PSR-540 is similar to the PSR-540, but only plays 2-variations styles).

The Yamaha PSR-8000 is a former high-end arranger. Is it basically the same as the PSR-740, with the addition of aftertouch, sampling, and the availability of a hard disk from which styles can be loaded. On the down side, it only plays 2-variations styles. It is out of production, but if you can find it for the same price it is a better deal than the PSR-740.

Roland EM-2000. This is being discounted to the PSR-740 range, but is a higher-end arranger. It does have aftertouch, but no vocal harmony. However, it can load many more styles than the PSR-740. Most people seem to prefer the built-in Roland styles to the built-in Yamaha styles. The Rolands are not XG, but they have there own extension to general midi, e.g., GS. The G-1000 is similar, but has 76 keys and no speakers.

The Casio MZ-2000 has aftertouch, lots of controls, but no vocal harmony and no hard disk.

The Korg PA-80 is new and slightly above your ranger. However, it has everything. You might wait and see what happens to its price.

The Korg i30 is out of production and might be discounted or available used within your price range. It is a high-end synths, but without a vocal harmony option.

I think the most important thing for you to do is to read over the equipment-related posts of the last several months. You will read a wide variety of reasons for buying or not buying each synth. Try to do more in the way of defining which features are important to you, and get back to us.

To Un-confuse things for you Balidoy, go for an all-in-one workstation, and work from there. The Roland EM2000, E500, Technics KN5000, Yamaha 740/8000 - are more than capable instruments.

So to "uncomplicate" things, if you brought just one of these keyboards, you would have a great sounding system, and no need to really add things on it yet....

You can have all the latest and greatest sounds in the world.... but no good if you don't know what to do with them when you get it home. With one of the above arrangers - it is "straight out of the box and play!"

The Triton is not great for producing sounds like the acoustic instruments of an orchestra, so my first choice for you would be: GO FOR THE EM2000!! You will not regret it...! - Whereas the 740 is a home Keyboard by comparison...but still a "pro" sounding keyboard. The kN5000 kind of falls in between these two. (In my opinion) as I've had the kn5000 - and excellent is the first word that springs to mind!

Arranger Keyboards can sound as good - if not better than Synthesizers. Do you like Piano sounds balidoy? - Then forget the Triton.it's just not up to the job. If I were in your situation, I would go for the EM2000, or the kn5000. Then next, maybe Korg 130/140 etc. And probably a Solton X1 for good backings -although, again the Piano's fails to impress on this Mid-ranger (personal taste).

The Roland VA-5 (without the Variphrase), would be within your budget maybe - if you shopped around a bit, and has plenty of sounds. But as I said, it is not the easiest of arrangers to start off with, and needs a little work to "Get you there" if you like, but if you are prepared to "Go to work", then this keyboard is another option.

Good look!

Jupiter5
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.... Speak the truth today...if you don't want to slip up tomorrow...




[This message has been edited by Jupiter5 (edited 12-09-2000).]

Hello Jupiter,

I too have owned the KN5000 and currently have the EM2000. I am suprised that you place the 5000 *between* the PSR 740 and the EM2000.

Do you really think the EM is superior to the 5000? I don't have many complaints re the EM but if I was offered my 5000 back in it's place I would be sorely tempted.

Maybe it is me just being nostalgic.

regards
Tony

I, too, have recently discovered keyboards and have read with interest the discussions and model comparisons and advise offered here and in other forums. Back in the early 80s, I purchased a Lowrey Holiday Organ. It wasn't the organ I liked so much, as the ability to have a whole band at your fingertips. (When I was a teenager, I played the accordion in a small band of my own, but gave music up and pursued other career interests.) I thought that the organ would be a fun, albeit extravagant, purchase since I could play with my right hand and only needed a finger on my left hand to set off all that accompaniment. Yeah, right. I soon learned, of course, that to really enjoy the music I had to learn two hands -- and two feet! I played happily for many years, but eventually, I got involved in other interests my job demanded more of my time, so my organ sat, more or less, unused for the past decade or so.

I recently got interested in it again, and, seeing that the organ needed some repair, I started looking for an organ repairman and discovered that Lowrey, and, indeed, electronic organs in general, seemed to have dropped off the face of the earth! I soon discovered why when I entered a piano showroom and saw what a new digital "ensemble" piano (Technics) could do. It blew me away; I couldn't wait to get my hands on one of these things. But this particular dealer, and this instrument, were pretty expensive; I figured there must be competitors. So my search started.

I soon discovered that Yamaha had the Clavinova, which was, indeed, a competitive product. I liked the Clavinova, but the model I liked, was $5,000 - a bit much considering I just married off two daughters this year. A friend, however, when I told him about the great things this digital piano could do, said, "Oh, yeah, my keyboard does that ... and that ... and that." His keyboard (the Yamaha 8000) seemed to do EVERYTHING that the Clavinova could and it cost him just under $1,900. Of, course, it did not "feel" like a piano since it was a keyboard, but I already have a piano in the house and I had played the organ anyway, so the feel of a piano was not a driving factor.

The PSR8000 was now replaced by the newer PSR 9000. It's specs did even more than the best Clavinova could do, and it was available from one of the dealers in this area for a bit over $2,000. But that was still a lot of money and comments in this forum suggested the 740, might be perfectly fine. So I started reviewing those instruments, and spent quite a bit of time comparing the 540, 640, and 740 models (with prices of roughly $500, $800, $1000). I tried to determine what, exactly, one got for the extra money and made quite a few comparison charts of the features. It looked like the PSR740 had just about all the features of the PSR8000 and cost almost half what the PSR8000 had sold for. I was leaning toward that model, though none of the stores here seemed to have it in stock. But a series of messages on the predecessor of this discussion group suggested the PSR540, hooked up to external speakers, would be a better investment than the 740, so I thought I should take a closer look at that model.

Although there was no 740 model to try, I tried my friend's PSR8000 a bit, then I went to the store and spent an hour or more playing the 540 and trying the various voices. I, finally, decided the PSR540 was "good enough" and brought it home with me that day (to show my wife what a wonderful Christmas present she had just given me!).

The factors that most influenced my decision:
a) While these instruments might sound great in the demos, an ordinary person can't make them sound great unless one can actually play the instrument.
b) Playing the instrument meant not only being agile on the keyboard, but also understanding the workings and operation of the keyboard itself -- when to use a split keyboard, when to use multiple voices, how to select styles, etc.
c) Learning to "play" also meant understanding the basic functions of loading and saving songs/styles, being able to record performances, edit songs, learning what a sequencer could do, etc.
d) Since these are, in fact, computers, whatever I bought would be worth a lot less (half?) in a year or two, so if I bought a $2,000 instrument, it might cost me $1,000 to play it for a couple years, the PSR740 would only cost me $500, and the "low-end" PSR540 would only cost me a few hundred dollars to learn on.
d) The PSR540 has fewer panel voices and styles than the 740, had better speakers, and had vocal harmony. BUT the basic engine, that is the floppy, the 16-tracks, the load/save features, etc were identical on all these models (540/640/740). Hooked up to my stereo, the quality of the internal speakers didn't matter either. And, as I auditioned the voices it did have, including trying out a lot of the XG voices, I concluded that they all sounded a lot better than I had experienced on my old Lowrey.

So,I opted to go "cheap" and can say I am still perfectly delighted with my selection. The instrument sounds great, I am working through my old music books (songs and exercises) trying to rebuild my finger power and dexterity and learning all about the various features included in this keyboard. Understanding the capabilities (and limitations) will allow me to make a much more informed decision when I am ready to go up to a better model. By then, I am sure the PSR10000 (and it's competitors) will be showing even more astounding capabilities.

Baliboy,

I agree with most the comments that have already been made but I'd like to add just a couple of things.

First, I had a Korg Triton Pro for a short time, too. It's a beautiful instrument with real piano feel (weighted keys) and string sounds you can't believe. It also has two arpeggiators. Each arpeggiator can play either a rhythm or drum pattern. So, you can get some awesome patterns going BUT (and this is a big BUT) it's not easy and it must be done for every single song you intend to play (unless you intend to just play without drums, bass, etc. - piano style).

I want to make music not sit and fiddle for days to setup my keyboard for a single song.

Second, the PSR-9000, an arranger style keyboard, was a great choice for me. I can enjoy making music now, and I also have option of fiddling for hours if I want but (and that's another big but) it's my decision whether I do it or not.

Don't automatically rule out the Triton. It is a truly remarkable instrument. I've even thought of buying one to supplement my Yamaha but the aggrevation of setting it up outweighs its benefits for my level of expertise.

Remember, get lots of opinions, then do what YOU WANT TO DO. We're all pretty biased about our keyboards. If you're really an inexperienced keyboardist, then I'd recommend getting something a little less pricey at first, then upgrading later when the fever really hits. By that time you'll know exactly what you want.

Regards,
Stevizard