1-The over sound is up about 5 notches above the PSR3000.
2-Working with the Music Finder -- When you exit or save a song the Music Finder does not default to the top, instead it stays where you were working last.
3-I know you can use an external recorded, in many cases a better one that’s in the S900 --- but what a connivance to have it all in one package, love it.
4-The buttons do have a different feel but In my short period of playing this keyboard I do not find them a problem.
5-In order to see the window properly you must sit high or elevate the back end of the keyboard. When you elevate the back end the music rack is almost perpendicular. N.G.
6-I do love the weight.
7-The screen is the same size (I think) but it is brighter than the 3K.
8-I am not sure why they made two areas on the Main screen a darker color, it limits how you adjust the screen.
9-The Video out put only works well in some cases. Instruments show good, but the bottom of the page is missing. The main page is split, part of the bottom is at the top. Any way of adjusting this. And the red colors are blurred.

I welcome any thoughts, John c.

Regarding the Music Finder, I like the Repertoire option in the style menu. You press it, and songs tailor made for that style appear in the MF database.

A cool tip: If you have a Yamaha style from Tyros 2, CVP 409, or aftermarket Yamaha made style. If you want to see what songs it is suitable for, save it to USER memory, call up the style, and call up repertoire in the Style Menu, the MF database will come up with the song.

I haven't had any problem with the display.

It is a drag getting the usb stick in and out when the keyboard is against a wall, and the music rest is on. I just started using a USB extension cable so this isn't a problem anymore.

The mic input is hotter than the PSR3000's. It seems like the vocal harmonizer is superior - probably the same as the Tyros 2's. Not as good as a TC helicon, but pretty good.

Beakybird

Hi Bruno, I used to have the Psr-3000 and I intend to upgrade to the S900. Since my local store doesn't have one on display, I have to rely on users' comments on this great forum.A few questions:
1)Can I load all user sounds and styles I had from the Psr-3000 into the S900?
2)I used to save all my user banks in the Smart media card installed safely in the proper slot. How could I have that in the S900 since it doesn't have the slot anynore?
3)Are the key feel and size the same as the Psr-3000?
4)And last, but not least, does the user bank capacity of the S900 the same or superior to the Psr-3000?
Thanks in advance for all the hints.

------------------

Hi Telmo,
If you have memory cards , no problem ! > link:
http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(1151)-SDDR-99-A15-SanDisk_ImageMate_5In1_ReaderWriter.aspx

Yes , all your saved styles would work with the PSR-S900

Yes , the key-bed is the same , NO change.
It might feel like a change at first , but that is because it`s new , after it is used awhile and loosens up it will feel like the Y3K

I think the S900 has more user memory , if not it will be the same, ( I think more )

Now i must tell you the bad , at least for me.
The small rubber buttons on some units tend to stick , not so has to cause any problem , just a pain that Yamaha didn`t use plastic buttons like your Y3K.

So in the end:

Better vocies
Needs more mixing & tweaking to balance the sound.
Updated style is a plus
Key-bed NO change
Rubber buttons
NO -- USB up front , but like BK said" use an extension cable"

Link for cable:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/produc...&seq=1&format=2

I hope this helps !!
Gary

Tks all for very interesting issues.
Gary
It's very important to purchase an usb extension from a dependable branch.
I had a lot of problems with my digital cameras during an entire week.
At the end,I found a low quality usb extension.
Chico

I too moved on from the PSR3000 to the S900 and at first I was distressed at the layout changes and small design faults, the 3k was a fantastic design, I would have been happy if Yamaha built the S900 into the 3000 casing....ok heres my angle on the not so good side of the S900...

1:- The screen is now further back and playing in a normal position it is not easily readable without leaning over the keyboard and if you use a second keyboard on top you will have problems.

2:- The rubber buttons are awful, they are not positive enough and if you press them in certain areas they do not respond, in some areas they are to small, the rubber will eventually perish with the acidity from sweaty fingers...who at Yamaha ok'd these rubber buttons to be used?...I'd give the S900 about 2 years before these buttons start to go...be warned.

3:- The area arond the screen is bristling with the normal PSR buttons (rubber) but they are Black on a Black background and are very hard to see on a dark stage, I have had to put flouescent sticky paper dots next to them to make them visible..terrible design!!!

4:- The 'fade out' button is periloulsy close the the 'Arranger Off' button...be carefull with that or you may find your volume disappearing if you dont realise you've hit it..

5:- The registration section facilitates the need to press 2 separate buttons simutaneously at times, once again the 3000 was so quick accessing the 'Reg' pages.

6:- The absence of any large scale 'on board' continuous storage is a pain in the butt, the 3000 had the 'Smart Medai' slot, which would hold huge amounts of data is now gone , all you can do now is use a USB pen stuck in the back which is ok if your S900 is kept in one place...if you are a giging musician you have to keep removing it after each performance which creates the situation where you could lose or forget your data pen and have no styles/registations available. We are in and age where memory is avaiable cheaply but Yamaha felt that 1.44mb inbuilt memory was ok...its not! its totally inadequate, a small closable compartment at the back to hold the data pen permanantly in would have been acceptable.

Ok there you have it...my thought's on the S900....you can't fault the sound but it has some serious design glitches....

Anybody feel the same?

Rgds
Pasa



[This message has been edited by pasadoble (edited 10-08-2007).]

Hey Chico ,

Long time no "chat to "

All is well I hope.

As far as cheap cables , yes they can be a pian , however I buy ALL my cables from Mono Price dot com and have never had any problems.

Pasa,
I`m with you all the way as far as hating those rubber buttons.
Why O why , would Yamaha do something that crazy.

The S900 is such a bargin that it is hard to pass up.

If it only had plastic buttons / an adjustable screen / and the FSX key-bed / front USB pot , it would be a perfect A/KB.

Even if you had to pay as much as a Motif XS6 , it would still be a steal.

I really don`t think those buttons will last 2 years , your being too kind !!!

Later guy`s
Gary

I hear some of the negative comments, if they are thought of individually it could be a reason not to buy a S900. I have both the 3K and the S900, there is without doubt a big difference in the overall sound, which I feel is the important factor.

My friend brought his Tyros 2 and we compared it with the 3K, there was a big overall sound difference. If I gave the Ty2 a 9 (1 To 10) in overall sound then the 3K would get 5 and the S900 would get a 7. Sorry that’s the only thing I could come up with.

1-I have elevated the back of the keyboard and the screen is OK.
2-The key-bed is better. Will it go with use? Until I get there I have no idea.

I feel Yamaha, and all the other keyboard manufactures are trying their best to stay up front and still make their profit. When I think of all the joy and pleasure AND that they have given us a keyboard that has given us the ability to earn dollars, I find it hard complaining about their product in general. I have bought a Psr2000, Psr2100, Psr3000, Tyros 1, and a Tyros 2 – and have not had a single problem.
I had all the Technics models –the KN6000 was so bad, so many complaints, that they gave me a new KN6500. But not until I made 10 103 mile round trips to Miami and made many, many of calls. I am sure other manufactures have their own story. So who knows.

I am going to end this post by saying – When I say “overall sound”, I mean the sound that the audience will hear – That is one heck of a good reason to buy one.
Bottom line: Yamaha is one of the good keyboards and the S900 in it’s price range is very hard to beat.

I had to think about why I am posting my opinion in this manner – it’s because I am enjoying my S900 so much I hate to read any of the negatives that are being posted, but we do need the whole story.

Now that is only my opinion, John C.

I guess there's no fence too sharp to sit on.

Truth is, there is no perfect arranger...the G70's too heavy, the PA-800 has some style flaws, the E-50 has no dedicated Intro/Ending 1.2.3.buttons, the S900 has rubber buttons, the 3k has an action some don't like...

T'was no different years ago...the Moogs drifted out of tune, the Prophets had J-wire key action problems, the Hammond B-3 was a tad heavy, the Wurlitzers were hard to tune...BUT...we still used them because we liked the sound, and we adapted to their idiosyncrasies.

Nothing is perfect.

Find the keyboard that does it for you, and learn to adapt...or keep waiting for the perfect one to be made.

I love my S900...it's not "perfect" but it's perfect for me, and I can easily live with it's imperfections to get that terrific sound of SA voices(love the Sax!).

Ian

Ian

I cannot say better

Chico

I don't have any problem with the buttons. I have had buttons fail me on both my PSR3000s.

Regarding USB pen drives, I keep one on my key chain with a secure but easy to release ring. When I perform with my PSR-S900 at home, it always stays on the ring with the rest of my keys. When I use the pen drive at my job, I take it off of the ring. Since I need keys to get to my job, and since the pen drive is always on my key chain (except when I am performing at a gig), I never worry about where the pen drive is.

This way, I never lose my USB drive, and I am using identical files with both keyboards. When I used Smart Media drives with my two PSR3000s, I had the problem of having different files on each drive.

Beakybird

[This message has been edited by Beakybird (edited 10-08-2007).]

Guy`s ,

I love the sound of the S900 , really !

Just wish it was made better , maybe it just fine and it`s all in my head !!!

Maybe I should have another look , maybe . .

One thing is certain , you will never find a better sounding A/KB for 1600 bucks !!

Gary

Great idea with the key ring, Beaky.

I had the same issues as you with the Smart Media cards when I was using two PSR-3000s.

I, too, got a USB extension cable for my S900...problem solved.

Ian

Guys - count me in among the "Happy S900 users". I have played the board several hours over the weekend and aside from adjusting some voices and regs, it has been a breeze to use and a joy to play.

I like Beaky's idea about the key ring too! My keyboard backs against a platform on my desk and makes the USB location inconvenient, so I also ordered an extension cable several days ago.

Randy

Well, my S900 is on the way. Am I the only one down-sizing (or might some say down-grading) from the Tyros 2? There are several reasons for the change.

If you like the key ring idea, get a USB drive that has a large opening on its tail end. I have a Toshiba drive that has a big loop. The one I have looks like this:
http://vida.manufacturer.globalsources.c...-Flash-Disk.htm

Beakybird

These are the best Thumb drives I have ever used so far on my KB's..........
http://www.corsairmemory.com/products/voyager.aspx

lets not forget how sleak the actual board looks!

Am I the only one that thinks that if Yamaha spent an additional say $500 on a better case, better buttons, better keyboard, etc., that the S900 would STILL be a very competitive product compared to others in the same price range?

I think if they did that (added $500 to the price) the choice would then be a used g70 or pa800 or other used totl or a new 900.
And of course it would compete with a used tyros 2.
But man, I agree it would be a real good idea.

p.s. I think they could do all that for a lot less than that. I think Yamaha still intends these to be home keyboards, they don't mind if you use them to do gigs but I think they know they're not gonna go on tour in the trailer with the backline and handled by roadies.



[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 10-11-2007).]

Diki, my thought exactly! I just purchased a 3K, but the argument is the same. These are great machines that suffer from what I would call toy store design.

I don't know how many non-afficianado players purchase the upper level PSRs, but I would hazzard most buyers use them to play for an audience. If that's the case, then a stronger body and bigger keybed would be BIG improvements, in my eyes.

I have been saying all along that I would not mind at all paying the price of a Motif XS6 ( about 600 more ) for the FSX key-bed / better buttons and switches / and better P-bend & Mod wheels.

That would be a dream A/KB !!

All one quality piece , it is just a shame that Yamaha doesn`t see it that way.

If the S900 was built like that , just think how many haappy people there would be !!



Gary

Cass too late for that.....lightweight plastic Kb's are here to stay, some sound very good,Its something that the player has to choose between just like any other decision in buying or playing a Kb, you have to weight the yay & nays and come out with a compromised purchase that right for you. Toy syndrome in some eyes is on the other hand BIG cash income in a pro gigging musician's once you make your purchase layout back its all gravy so who cares if the kb tanks in a year, dump it move on buy something else there's plenty of Toys out there

Sounds like you want a Tyros2 at a price which is $500 more than an S900.

Won't happen. Yamaha would not sell any Tyros2...they certainly don't want that to happen.

The name of the game with ALL arranger companies is marketing and profit...hasn't it occurred to you that Yamaha has worked all this out?

Wait long enough and you will be able to buy a second hand Tyros2 for a good price...OR save your pennies and buy a Tyros3...then again...it might have rubber buttons.

Ian

For me, the plastic, rubber buttons, lightweight and toy appearance all work well on the job. It does not take away from the end result. The audience doesn't give a darn. In and out of the car 3x daily and at night sometimes sure makes the design all worthwhile in my mind. Donny is right, give me a couple years with it and move on to another if it goes. Apparently, this is not the case, because there are many who have had their toys for years now. I believe Yamaha knows what they're doing

I might try another brand soon, but it's not because I don't think the 900 is fabulous, it's just called change.

zuki

[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 10-11-2007).]

I meant a used T2 and I was figuring add 500 onto the s900 which would be list at about 2300 dollars, street price maybe $2100.
Now maybe my math is wrong since it's all conjecture anyhow but I'm thinking if it's me $2100 for a new s900 or maybe a few bucks more for a used T2, or G70 or pa800.

I was calling the s900 the T2 lite


[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 10-11-2007).]

Sorry Mike...my fault...I misunderstood your post.

I need some tea.

Ian

Ya know, sometimes I go back and read my own posts and I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.



[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 10-11-2007).]

I guess my only point is that, for very little extra money, Yamaha could address certain build quality aspects of the S900 (it has already been reported that the rubber buttons need to be hit quite precisely to assure operation) that make it difficult for some experienced players to make a change away from more 'professionally' built keyboards.

Before you all get you hackles up, let me point out that Yamaha themselves, as well as most other keyboard manufacturers, chose to incorporate these functional design improvements (better key-beds, better buttons and sliders, more robust cases) on less expensive keyboards in their workstation lines. At little or no weight penalty. So it's not that they CAN'T do it, nor does it cost much to implement.

Sonically, and OS-wise, the S900 is as capable a keyboard as any mid-line Motif or Fantom variant, and sits in the same price bracket. But you get FAR less than a Motif purchaser in build quality, and tactile experience. Somebody is getting ripped off, and few seem to care.

Rather than manning the battlements every time someone suggests that it MIGHT be possible to improve these things to at least the point where they compare favorably with similarly priced Yamaha workstations, maybe if S900 owners dropped the knee-jerk response to criticism and started to realize that perhaps a LITTLE pressure on Yamaha might get some kind of response in the way of better construction quality, and quite a few players that are used to workstation-like build quality (like, 'er, perhaps some WORKSTATION players!) might be a LOT more interested in moving to Yamaha arrangers.

But coming from ANY workstation to a PSR is quite a shock to realize how flimsily they are built. At a time that arrangers are getting more and more recognition from mainstream players, now is not perhaps the time for Yamaha to cut corners in the name of profits (after all, if they can produce better built, less expensive workstations, what other motive do you think they have?).

Me, I'm prepared to pay MORE for a better built Yamaha arranger (but not as much as a T2 costs!), but in truth, you should EXPECT Yamaha to at least match their workstation build quality if you are going to pay even more than they cost!

These arrangers are NOT cheap, throwaway toys. I expect many years of reliable service from any keyboard in that price range, and when a new model comes out, I expect to be able to sell my older keyboard in good reliable condition. Yamaha provide that level of quality for their workstation lines. Why are you all so content when they DON'T provide it for more expensive arrangers...?

Correctomundo, Zuki...I agree.

I have no complaints about my S900...love it!

Time will tell if it's as tough as my old 3k, which still works perfectly and has never given a problem.

Ian

Hi Ian,
I get what your saying about a Tyros 2 = S900.

Yamaha doesn`t want to compete with it self.

But with all the reported issues , I just wish that Yamaha had done a better job ,

They really don`t have to change from plastic buttons to rubber , not for the top 2 PSR`s.

They do have the sound , that much is certain , if they just had the quality.

I`m happy that you have had good luck with yours and I hope that continues as you might be just part of a handful happy owners,

Take care ,
Gary

Thanks Gary, but there are much more than a "handful" of owners who are very pleased with the S900 and who have reported no problems.

Here in Canada the S900 is selling very well...the issues seem to be primarily in the USA, and most likely stem from mishandling of the product AFTER it left the factory.

I have very many happy clients and no complaints.

Hope you find a keyboard that suits you...good luck!

I'm glad I passed on the Tyros2 and waited for the S900...saved a bunch of money, too.

Ian

Why should a grand or so make any difference to a "PRO Full-time gigging musician for example the S900 vs T2...etc........these are Tools of the trade which after a year the cost of the unit is multiplied 20 fold & beyond....if your a Full Time Pro dont Settle for anything less then what you want & are happy playing.....where else can you pay a pittance investment and make have an increase in profit a 1000x over in years to follow?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-12-2007).]

I don't know about you Donny, but $1000 is a nice chunk of change...

Having said that...t'wasn't a monetary difference that helped me make my decision of S900 over Tyros2, although that was a nice perk.

Light weight, on-board speakers, less complexity for set-up were some of the reasons I got the S900.

Plus, I only keep an arranger for about three years...I usually get the next generation to get all the new goodies but not if the upgrade is not substantial.

I thought the S900 was a big improvement over my old 3k.

The system works well for me.

Ian

Ian that's a couple of gigs to a gigging full time pro musician...then your investment is paid off the rest is GRAVY......3 years of gigs $$$$? add it up...
I understand your choice and comfort level...my post was to include all KBs in general besides the example I gave ....



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-12-2007).]

Actually, it's what? About $1600 street for an S900, about $3500 for a T2, new.

That's a LOT more than an easy grand, difference...

And the MotifXS6 at about $2100 is built like a tank, compared to the PSR. It's quite a bit more expensive than the MotifES series, but considerably more capable, and feature wise justifies it's extra $500 more than the PSR. But build quality, even on the comparably priced ES series is an order of magnitude higher than the PSR. And, even so the MotifXS is still $1400 LESS than a T2, which really only gains the MotifXS's key-bed but still sub-par switches.

You really ARE getting the short end of the stick from Yamaha. Let's put it this way.... If the S900 WAS built to Motif standards without a price increase (which, by looking at the ES series, it could be), none of you would be complaining one iota!

Good points, Diki...I'll pass them on to Yamaha.

Ian

Hi Ian

You mentioned, "less complexity for set-up were some of the reasons I got the S900."

Wondering how you mean that??

Scott

Hi Scott,

The built in speakers are much better than having to carry around and ultimately set up the speaker system for the Tyros2...not to mention the PSR's lighter weight and more manageable size.

Ian

OK, understood. Didn't know if you were referring to that or setting up the controls.

Diki,

I should mention that in spite of the complaints /issues with the PSR-900 that seem to be concentrated in the USA (and seem to stem from mishandling after the product has left the factory), the S900 is a whopping success here in Canada and it seems to be just as much in Europe.

I have had not one complaint about the PSR-S900's construction or operation...not one.

If anything, I have received many praises about the incredibly realistic sound of the SA and Mega voices, the Audio to USB recording, the excellent user interface, the fine onboard speakers, and the well programmed styles to name a few features that continually impress new owners.

Most of all, the highest praise seems to be the ability of the S900 to have most of the features of the much more expensive Tyros2 for an amazing price.

It is very nice of you to take the time and point out areas where YOU think Yamaha needs to improve their product line, but with the unbridled success of the Tyros2 and now the S900, I have a strong feeling that they know what they're doing.

Once again, thank you for your interesting post.

Ian

I found out today that the PSR S900's are made in Indonesia. Probably the same for the S500/700 as well. Oh well, there goes the China quality control theory down the tubes. But that doesn't necessarily let Indonesia off the hook. The PSR S900 is evidence of that.. maybe.

Or in case of the other supposed scenario that has been suggested - I wonder if Yammie has located and identified that bonehead in the warehouse that Steve mentioned. If it is indeed an inside job. Although it's hard to understand how both of Tim's S900's had bad USB ports, one after the other. You wouldn't think that both of Tim's S900's came from the same pallet that may have been mishandled or rough housed by a staffer.

Anyway, I hope everything gets worked out and back on track with whatever quality control issues the PSR S series is facing and/or continues to face.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 10-13-2007).]

Fortunately, Ian, Yamaha themselves decide every few years that their current model is not 'perfect' and, in fact, could use some improvement.

You are happily using those 'improvements' that, while you had a PSR3k, you were just as adamant that you didn't need. I don't hear you complaining now, and I didn't hear you complaining then...

And trust me, should Yamaha ever decide that their arranger users (who pay as much as their workstation customers) deserve as well built keyboards as their WS users, you won't be complaining in the slightest, then either. Whatever they do, apparently is just fine by you. So why not encourage them to do something that a large number of us here at SZ actually DO want? After all, if they do it, you aren't going to care either way...

Mike, I need to correct you. My FIRST S900 had dead pitch bend and modulation wheels. And the voices all had a waver as if the mod. wheel was in the up position. My SECOND S900 had the dead USB to DEVICE socket. I'm now awaiting delivery of my THIRD (and last) S900.

Tim

It's called "advances in technology" my friend, and sorry, as smart as I am (and modest as well ) I can't see into the future.

I did hear a rumor there was to be no G70 replacement...any truth in it, oh Nostradikimous?

Ian the Inquisitive

Ian

I've heard that rumor, too. Hopefully, it is just that, but it must be hard for Roland to recover from the debacle that the G70's release created (not to mention the abrupt change in direction with the VA series that left most G1000 users scratching their heads).

Add in the disaster to Roland sales caused by transferring the arranger division over to the CK stores, who, apparently, are not the slightest bit interested in even stocking them, yet alone promoting them (at least in the US). Not enough profit margin compared to KR-series and Atelier, I guess. But they have been resoundingly ignored by their own dealers in the US, to the point that few cities even have any to look at (including the E-series).

If one were deliberately trying to kill a formerly profitable line, I can think of no better way than RolandUS have managed. Perhaps the rumor is only that, but given Roland's phobia for any kind of public disclosure, it may take a long time to find out while Roland string us along at each trade show with vague predictions.

I wish they would let us know, one way or the other, and at least then I could snap up a slightly used one to mothball for when my G70 eventually gives up the ghost, rather than waiting forever to see if the NEXT G-series returns my Chord Sequencer to me....

Hi Diki
It seems the G series may bite the dust, however as the E series (E80) is a more advanced version of the G series (G70) there is no reason why a 76 note version won’t be added. (Already done with the E50/60)
If you look at the new Atelier range you will see they still keep the unique Roland 56 upper and 76 note lower manuals.
Should be interesting to see what Roland show at NAMM.
BTW is any SZ member going this time?

Bill

The problems with the PSR-S900 that I have heard of so far are too varied to be a problem with a load falling off of a pallett.

I'm glad that the problems are mostly confined to the USA.

I believe that there was a quality control problem. Many of the problems reveal inner circuitry issues. A few, like cracked plastic and the usb not working might be from mishandling.

Hey, I'm very happy with the two PSR-S900's that I own. Knock on wood. I am having a lot of fun at my jobs and in my office. I just feel bad for those who like me got defective keyboards.

I really hope that Yamaha gets this issue under control ASAP.

Beakybird

Beaky,

We can all speculate on the cause of the S900's issues...the dropped palette one is viable, as is a batch that slipped through quality control...I'm inclined to go with the former as the keyboards in question were all in the same destination area.

A large heavy palette dropped from even a short distance could/would wreak havoc on connectors to wheels, data dials, USB ports, screens, even speakers.

A slip in quality control on the assembly line would cause identical problems with the units...as it stands, the issues were varied.

Whatever the cause, Yamaha is doing it's usual thorough investigation and will correct any current problems.

They did help you, didn't they?

Glad you getting along fine with both S900s.

All the best,

Ian

That isn't necessarily so in my opinion. An assembly line could have issues at the start of the line, midway, or at the end of the line and therefore the quality control (or lack thereof) could affect many varied aspects of the assembly process depending on how lackadaisical and/or problematic the quality control issues have become at the factory.

On the other hand if a pallet somehow got dropped from a considerable height the boxes that they come in would most likely have been damaged also. I haven't heard of people complaining about smashed, ripped, or otherwise damaged boxes upon receiving their S series keyboards. Maybe I missed that discussion I dunno. The keyboards are boxed together at the factory in Indonesia and as far as I know Yamaha U.S. doesn't re-box them at their facility in Buena Park, CA. do they? Maybe they do, but if a keyboard has already been damaged by a fall from a pallet or whatever, you would think Yamaha U.S. would put a new keyboard back in the new re-boxed box with undamaged merchandise thereby rectifying the problem(s) at both ends i.e. a new undamaged box with a new undamaged S500/700/900 in them. Apparently that has not been the procedure followed by Yamaha or else we wouldn't be getting all these reports of problematic S series keyboards arriving at peoples doors in damaged condition. If indeed a pallet load of S series keyboards did in fact hit the deck.

I suspect the real problem lies at the factory in Indonesia. But what do I know?

Yamaha doing whatever necessary to root out the problem at its source is something we can all hope that they accomplish in a most timely manner. If not sooner.

Best,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 10-14-2007).]

Mike,

It's speculation that the boxes themselves would be damaged...remember they are packed tightly together...the shock of a fall would damage what's inside the boxes especially if the palette landed flat.

But then again, I'm only speculating too.

Just as long as the problems are seen to and corrected...that's the most important thing.

Ian

And I think that common sense would dictate that, if you DID get a faulty initial S900, you should demand that the replacement one they send you be unboxed first, and tested thoroughly. Especially in the US, but at the moment, just about worldwide doesn't seem unreasonable.

Nothing worse than receiving another faulty product as a replacement to the first....!

While I was unhappy about getting two faulty keyboards, I was happy about how I was treated by my retailer, Joe Martell of Sweetwater Sound and by Steve Demming of Yamaha.

I was one of the first customers to receive an S-900 in the USA, and it was defective. My retailer told me that that was the only one he had, and that there were production delays on the next shipment. It took five weeks for me to get the second keyboard that was defective.

Given that these two keyboards came from shipments five weeks apart, and Tim's keyboard came six weeks after that with version 1.2 on it, it is evident that the problem came from the factory and not from a bunch of keyboards falling off a pallette.

Beakybird

You win, Beaky....now contact Yamaha and tell them you've cracked the case.

Ian the Impressed

Not only did Larry get two bad S900's in a row (just like Tim did by the way ) now you're jesting with him about his reasonings as to where the problems are most likely originating from?!?! You're adding grief to his sorrow and if that isn't enough you're basically insulting him by telling him to do your dirty work Ian. You are a Yamaha employee who reads this forum regularly and I enjoy your input and insight regarding arranger keyboards but you really shouldn't mock your customers even if you think it is in fun and games. And Larry shouldn't be the one to make that call, rather it is you who should Ian. I'm sure Steve Deming has already let the higher up's know of the situation but the more Yammie employees that get the word out the better I would think. At least it couldn't hurt anyway. So make that call.. Tell 'em the natives are restless and if something isn't done pronto they may lose customers and potential customers to the competition. A worst case scenario yes, but nevertheless it could happen if Yamaha turns a blind eye to their customers legitimate concerns.

Even though you may have been joking it really wasn't funny Ian, at least to me anyway. It was rather demeaning in my opinion. I think your customers deserve better Ian. And I hope Larry is in a forgiving mood.

I also hope that your superiors don't get wind of this and for some reason you get reprimanded or something worse happens because of it. Loose lips sink ships they say. "Have you seen or heard from Ian lately?" "No I haven't as a matter of fact." "It seems rather dull around the Zone without him chiming in the way he used to." "Pity, I actually heard he got canned for insulting a devoted, loyal customer of his former employer." Nah! Really?? >> "Nah, just joking." Whew!! That was a close one.

Best,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 10-14-2007).]

I did feel insulted by your response, Ian. That was a gratuitous and condescending remark.

I feel like Ian's voice addressing this matter is the voice of a propagandist.

I did get two faulty keyboards. One literally ruined one of my gigs that I barely got through by the skin of my teeth, so I do have the right to say, "What the f@#@?"

I would recommend the PSR-S900 to anyone, but if a good friend of mine was buying one, I would feel obliged to warn him to be vigilant of the quality control issues. I have heard of at least three faulty keyboards on the PK Owner forum. I don't read the forums in the other languages. This is unprecedented.

I think the fact that there is an over two month space between these defective keyboards and that they were sold as soon as they got to the store indicates very obviously that they came from different shipments. It is clear to me, at least, that I did "crack the case."

I am sure that Yamaha and Ian would rather folks think the problem came from a forklift driver. I don't think that I should be attacked as an irrelevant armchair detective just for pointing out that this is clearly not the case.

I have a right to be concerned about Yamaha quality control. I shelled out close to 1 1/2 grand for these two keyboards. I love performing on them. My audience is raving about my performances. Nevertheless, I shouldn't have to be worried that my kb just might fry out on an important gig - and that the warranty on labor is only 90 days.

Yamaha took great care of me. That I have stated, but I wish they took care of me on the assembly line in Indonesia in the first place.

Beakybird

Well Beaky, I still think you're a great armchair Sherlock and your partner, Dr. Watson(Mike)impresses me as well.

Great work, fellows.

Now, about your complaint.

Nowhere in my post did I make fun of, or even mention your issues with your S900s...nowhere...so PLEASE do not put words in my mouth...please read the post again if you're not sure.

Now, see the smiley in said post? That means that it was meant in fun.

Nothing else...no hidden agenda.

Now, I hope this clears things up about my post...if not, well, carry on.

BTW Mike...I have already sent a copy of this thread to my superiors.

Regards,

Ian







[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-15-2007).]

OK. No big deal.

Hey, Indonesia, where the PSR-S900 is made, is a Muslim country. Maybe some zealot is sabotoging US bound keyboards because of our involvement in Iraq. I think I'm going to open up my keyboard to see if there's a jihadist message in there.

Beakybird

2 Words , that can`t be said enough:

********************
QUALITY CONTROL
********************

Ian , you work for Yamaha ?

Gary

Gary, I do not work...I detest it...it is the curse of the leisure class.

I play.

I have done the occasional demo for Yamaha, and I help Canadian customers get familiar with a new purchase.

Why...were you looking for a job?

You can be in quality control...there must be an opening or two in Indonesia if Beaky is correct.

Ian

So do Yamaha Canada know you ARE liaising with the public, Ian, and making official sounding pronouncements about the state of quality control in the US or Indonesia?

Or is this just more evangelism in the guise of official communication..?

Does anyone here think that Yamaha International give the REAL skinny to an occasional clinician and non-full-time employee in a small part of Canada? Most corporations get EXTREMELY tight-lipped about quality control issues with brand new products. Why anyone would think that Ian was privy to such information, yet alone authorized to release it to the buying public is beyond me. This, especially given Ian's constant PSR evangelism, just sounds like someone spouting the party line... (as he does with everything concerned with the PSR's).

The FACTS are, several members at SZ have received faulty S900's, some multiple ones, at widely different times and from widely different dealers. Whatever conclusion you draw from this, one thing is certain. No-one from Yamaha has made ANY official statement...

Let's not take Ian's 'opinion' as one of those...

Well, Diki, let's see if I can help you...

Yamaha Canada are very much aware of my pronouncements regarding the state of the S900 here in Canada(which was the fact there were no problems reported)...and yes, in spite of my modest position, I do get the "skinny" on things pertinent.

Now, regarding the state of quality control in US and Indonesia...well, if my SPECULATIONS sound official, then that's great...I always wanted to sound official.

I would beg to differ about my "evangelism"...I like to think of it more on the lines of enthusiasm, much like your connection to your G70....maybe more so because Yamaha make cooler stuff.

I certainly appreciate your marvelous assessment of my job...I have to agree with you..it's part time and occasional(at least for now whilst I'm off with disability)...but it pays the bills.

Thank you, Diki, you always make me think much deeper about things...and I appreciate that very much.

All the best,

Ian

Ian, I know we are quite different in our approach to our favorite toys...

I think of 'enthusiasm' as a great liking for something, but at least a willingness to talk openly about possible improvements, possible faults, and potential for change.

'Evangelism', on the other hand, I usually spot by it's users' refusal to consider that ANY fault exists, ANY improvement could be made, and that anyone else could even NEED any change...

We both share a great love for our tools of choice, but sometimes the fact that you can't ever bring yourself to address ANY issue with regard to the fact that the PSRs maybe COULD use some changes here and there gives less weight to your positive impressions. I'm just more likely, I guess, to listen to someone that CAN see both sides of the issues, than someone that has NOTHING to say but positives. Nothing, so far in my experience with keyboards, EVER comes close to 'perfect', there's always SOMETHING that could be improved.

But usually, when discussing PSRs with you, I get far more the impression that I'm talking with a salesman than an actual user... MOST of us are willing to talk flaws....

Perhaps you're right, Diki, maybe I am evangelical in my approach.

I also don't waste my time complaining about what a product needs...I just adapt and find ways to make it work for me right now...not when the manufacturer gets around to it.

PSR improvements?

Many years ago I complained there was no ON BASS on the PSR...even the high end...now, I'm not going to say they did it for me, as there were MANY other clinicians, product specialists and artists that probably wanted it...but it did happen.

As for the present PSR/Tyros there's no doubt a half measure button would be nice, and I have mentioned this to Yamaha several times, but until they do decide to make it real, I find workarounds....I had a special program designed by Michael Bedesem, who took my tiny core idea and made a terrific program for me so I could construct styles that eliminated the half measure problem.
It even converts portions of the style to double time if I wish....very handy...not as cool as dedicated buttons, but cooler in it's own way and it's adjustability.

With so much gear bashing that went on in the not so distant past( I was probably part of it as well), the standard procedure on this forum was to defend your purchase or your favorite brand at all costs...there are still traces of it left over, although I do find lately that things have returned to some form of civility.

Because of those issues(and a few more)I found it very hard to take this forum seriously, and only used it as a means of diversion and entertainment...especially while convalescing.

Maybe, in this improved atmosphere, more(including me) will be willing to discuss what you have suggested.

Again, thank you for your thought provoking post.

Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-15-2007).]

Hi Ian,

After reading some of the posts , I thought you worked for Yamaha , sorry !!

I really think it`s cool that you demo there KB`s and have at-least some communication with Yamaha.

I value ALL opinions and ALL the help I receive here.

I am looking for an arranger that I can enjoy and make music with.
The S900 is what it is , and would probably suit my needs just fine , but with the 2 that I tried , I really don`t know.

There are other options for me , maybe you or someone else can help.

I have been looking at many , and for me this would be a big purchase , and I want the best I can afford.

I have been thinking about the following:

PSR-S900 because it`s just the best buy for the money.

Pa800 because of what I have read. Although I have only tried there synth`s , I can only hope that the Pa800 would be similar as far as build quality.

Roland E-80 , because I love the Roland piano sound , and that KB seems to have it all , and if need more sound , just plug in an expansion board.

So as you can see , I need alot of input from all sides.

Also , you might be wondering , Why not the Tyros 2 or G70 , well I would prefer to have an all-in-one A/KB ( built in speakers ) , as that would best suit my needs.

Lets expand , on that.

The keyboard that I finally chose would be for my own enjoyment.

I have been playing some kind of keyboard ever since my dad bought is first Hammond back in `66.

Still have an old non tonewheel Hammond now , but it need a lot of work.

So , thats about it , I can use any and all the help I can get , so thanks to all.

Gary

Gary,

You are correct...I don't work for Yamaha full time, but I am hired to do clinics and demos on a job to job basis.

The three keyboards you mentioned all have 61 keys, so I imagine you can live without 76 notes.

All three are great boards...I've played the E-80 and it's a real beauty...lots of terrific sounds, cool styles, touch screen, nice speaker system.

A lot more money than the S900, but probably worth it.

The PA-800...can't say much about this one as it isn't sold in my local area, but according to several owners on the forum it is a fine instrument....again, more money than the S900.

The S900...well I can vouch for it's musicality as I own one...it replaced my PSR-3000 and I really like it....love the SA and mega voices that bring it nearly to the level of the Tyros2.

You have to try all three and go with what your ears tell you.

As far as the best "bang for the buck" the S900 is the one...but if you have the extra cash, then the Korg and/or Roland may be the way to go.

Hope this helps.

Ian

Hi Ian,
Thanks for your help !!

I have one problem , location , or should I say lack of stores in my area.
I have a Guitar Center , that has a KB dept. that only has Casio`s and PSR-E403 and < .

So the only way I can make a choice is with a little help from my friends.

A couple of weeks ago I drove to Danvers Ma. , just to look at a Tyros 2.

The only access I have to keyboards , is the internet.

I would love to go to a music store and try all 3 , or at least try the Pa800 and the E80.

I was able to try a couple of S900 and one Tyros 2.

Anyway , thanks for your help , really !!

Take care, later.
Gary

PS:
Yes , 61 keys will do just fine for me , I have played and owned many arrangers , most Yamaha , and have found no need for 76 or 88.
However ,76 would be nice , but space is limited to a 61 key and that`s just fine.

I keep mentioning the S900 , like I said , you really get the most for your money.
But I want quality too , I have said so many times that it sounds great , but ...

It really is a shame , I`m a huge Yamaha fan !!

[This message has been edited by jedi (edited 10-15-2007).]

[This message has been edited by jedi (edited 10-15-2007).]

Not to get TOO controversial here, it's just a thought, but has it occurred to anyone that, if you get an arranger with a sequencer built in, AND TOTL piano sounds (or electric pianos) you MIGHT not always be playing in strict arranger mode.

A VERY large proportion of arranger users also use SMFs. Now free up that left hand, and now you actually DO have the potential to actually play a REAL piano part. This is where making the decision to go with a 61 note keyboard may come back to haunt you.

It's not that a 61 isn't probably the ideal size for just playing in arranger mode, most here think it is. But if you DO play piano (or want to learn), it is a shame to get a keyboard with a VERY good piano sound, and then have insufficient keys to use it fully...

JMO, yada yada yada....

A very big/important part of playing piano is the weighted hammer action keyboard.

Playing on a semi-weighted 76 note action is a poor substitute at best, although there are players who seem to believe they are okay...but, we're not going to fool a real piano player.

If your want to learn piano don't play on semi weighted keys...your technique will suffer.

Solution?

Get a Yamaha CVP or Roland KR series digital piano.

88 keys..weighted hammer action, graded no less...the ability to play SMF...AND arranger functions.

Too heavy or large? Too expensive?

Get a Yamaha DGX-620...88 note hammer action, SMF capability, AND arranger functions.

If your gonna learn piano...you may as well do it right.

If you use SMF and play on stage you can get digital pianos like the Roland RD-700/300 SX or Yamaha CP-300...great realistic actions...and if you're used to dragging around a big heavy arranger like a G70, the weight and size shouldn't be an issue.


Don't wait! See your Yamaha or Roland dealer TODAY!

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-16-2007).]

My 2 Cents on H/W/B Keys

I`m an old organ grinder from way back.

A few weeks ago I played a Roland Elec. piano with H/W/B keys , and I must say that the expression that can be made with hammer action keys might be a plus whether you play snyth style or straight piano !!

Just myy 2 cents !!

Gary