If you had a Chord Sequencer you could play the verse and chorus the first time using automatic bass, switch on the chord sequencer, mute the A.Bass part and play a REAL bass line for the rest. Or leave the A.Bass part on and have two hands for the piano part (heaven help us.... TWO hands for a piano part? What next? Be able to really USE the bender? )

Just trying to point out how so many of our 'difficulties' could be solved by the re-introduction of this essential feature......

Amen, learn to use your left hand. Buy some records by Dave Mckenna and learn to be a real jazz musician.

Hey, fella, I have been a "real" jazz musician since 1975
and I won't drop a long list on you, but many of the guys you have in your jazz record collection I have played with
or for, like Jimmy Smith, Tony Bennett, dozens more. Tell me who you are to tell others how to be real..

Dave Mckenna is a great old-time stride man, but almost all of the more modern cats prefer to play with a live bassist, and use lh bass out of economic necessity or when they can't find a suitable bassist. Maybe you can play better bass lines than the arranger kb , but what about laying your own lines into the arranger if you can do it better? otherwise, why use an arranger kb at all when
you can use a digital piano w/drum machine ? Unless you
are an organist or stride-type player, you are limiting
your pianistic creativity by restricting your lh to bass lines.
That's why I use an arranger..to expand my creativity.


------------------
Miami Mo

KVS..... having played with all those cats (and no doubt with some scary bassists!) you are pretty aware of how the bassline leads the changes, rather than just follow them and play repeated motifs. Yes, for sure, much smooth jazz and latin can be adequately covered by the arranger, but I find the straight ahead stuff pretty unacceptable. It just sounds like the bass player has no idea of where the tune is going (which of course he doesn't!).

If all you play along with is Bass and Drums with a little comp, perhaps for these kinds of tunes an SMF might make more sense, and allow you to program a real bassline. Most modern arrangers have a SMF locate ability, allowing you to program different intensity verse/choruses and switch in and out of them at your whim (so you don't have to play the same every night). Worth a try.....

Also, especially considering that you play horns as well (I'm a t'bone major, myself, but don't hold that against me!), you might want to take a hard look at an older Roland arranger with the Chord sequencer (most of them up to the G1000), and then you could play the first verse and chorus on the arranger and then go to the chord sequencer play and solo on the horn (doesn't HAVE to be Vs/chrs, any repeated section will work!). You would still have footswitch control of variation and fills, just the chords would be pre-done (on the fly, not in advance like all others make you), and you return to the keyboard when you feel like it.

For a horn player (or anyone who doubles) it is a major boon, and I wish more would jump on the bandwagon and scream for the return of this feature...... Sometimes, the latest, newest arranger isn't necessarily the most useful.

Diki,
thanks, I have been limited in using my horn, been just
letting kb stay on a pedal note and blowing over it for
a couple choruses on funk/latin for one tune a set...
don't want to get into setting up sequences...but I also
want to emphasize my vocals/key backing and downplay
my horn or i'm just always thought of as a horn player,
which is not how i want to work now, except for sittin in..

those are some great suggestions, I wasn't aware of the
on-the-fly chord sequencer..you said up to the g1000..
does that mean including the g1000? some guys on sz
love that model, guess I may have to search for one.
wonder what the tradeoffs would be, though, on features..
although I agree newer ain't always better:: the new Genesys i just dumped couldn't hold a candle to my 8-yr-old Korg is35 in every way except for the keybed, a fuller sound, and CD burner.

since I have been at the keys only since 2000, and mostly
solo, and all using arrangers, I haven't played with any bass players (let alone scary ones) as a keyboardist, only as a saxman. good point you make about it sounding like the bass doesn't know where it's going. but you know, one of the things I love about arrangers is the solid time, and ability to set the timbre and the volume..so unless it is
a real scary bassist, the arranger is superior to most of the
rest except for voice leading, and if the notes aren't a perfect match that is something 99% of the audience
can't distinguish, so I train myself to ignore it--because
the groove is there, and the balance is right, and it doesn't
overplay, or rush, or drag, or both, or try to be too aggressive in volume or play too many notes, or play with that whiny twang that's the latest fashion (yech). when i need to I can play my own bass line right over it if I'm using guitar, organ, rhodes...without using an actual
bass sound and splitting kb...it's unorthodax but it really
adds excitement to have 2 bass lines going..try it..

Diki,
you raise a lot of good points.
yes, the arr.bass doesn;t know where to go, and it sounds
like it..but to whom? to very highly trained ears only. That leaves out 99% of the audience, who groove on the tune and the feel, and will never notice incorrect bass notes. So
I choose to groove on the groove as well, and ignore what
I hear re notes, because only the scariest bass players have the kind of time or groove that a good arranger kb does, and it doesn't rush, drag, or both--doesn't play too
many notes or too loud or too soft, doesn't use that (yech)
twangy nasal sound that's the rage in jazz recently.

that said, as a kbdist only past 6 yrs, I learned a lot from your suggestions re SMF's and especially the on-the-fly chord seq..of which i was not aware. A lot of sz guys love the g1000..maybe i need to find one and check it out..

although.. I'm trying to establish myself as a vocalist/kbdist, and don't wan't to play too much horn with that, because at this point everyone likes my vocal/kbd, but they LOVE my horn, and I don't want to be a full-time horn player any more..just want to have a bit of fun with it at jams and gigs. so playing a tune a set with a horn solo
in the middle of it, blowing over a single pedal chord, has
been passable..but i would like to blow over changes once
in a while..
Mo

sorry to say the same thing twice, but the site told
me I was flooding (I wasn't) and that the first one was rejected..which I guess wasn't..hey Nigel, wazzup wit it?

Simple solution.
Pre record the changes, and rhythm ( with a secquencer, arranger, or manually ) to your favorite songs to solo over and use a midi file or MP3 track when the NEED for sax arises.
If people love the horn ...... I say - Give 'em what they want !

Who knows ???? I guess the BBS software just hit some sort of glitch. I suppose duplicate postings is better than a glitch that would lose your posting altogether.

Well, I agree that 99% of your audience probably can't tell the difference, but as you've probably seen, the few who can, and most jazz players (yourself included) tend to have a very high standard for realism in this most purist of styles.

And if you are playing with too busy bassists, or too loud or bad timing, well, all I can say is - they aren't THAT scary, then!

Yes, the G1000 was the last Roland to include the Chord sequencer, and having played one for 9 yrs, I can assure you that, while you might miss some of the newer sounds and features, the ability to solo on your horn over a just played set of changes (no having to set everything up in advance) is worth every trade off versus a modern arranger.

I still find it amazing that the chord sequencer isn't as universal on all arrangers as the fill buttons or the SMF player........