Hi Richard thank tito for these demos for me please. coul;d you also ask him if he has any western contemporary styles or jazz,funk ,blues demos. Although i have quite wide musical tastes , I am completely ignorant of the musical styles that Titos demos use and so cannot tell if the instruments used or the styles played are authentic (to the ear ) or not. They do sound highly quantizised and robotic and again i repeat that could well be because i am unfamiliar with the style (my ignorance).Its just really hard to tell if what i am hearing is good or not because there is so much i am unfamiliar with.

Please dont take this as a critiscism. Just a request for more styles.

There were three demos posted (the first with the trombone has expired), the second featured saxes and trumpets, the third, I have no idea WHAT that lead sound was supposed to be.

The second demo with the trumpets was very problematic for me. I wasn't sure if that was the most inspired recreation of a bunch of REALLY bad trumpet players (!) or something about the GIGA triggers was giving him fits....

The third again has me puzzled. Firstly, the lead sound was unfamiliar, and then lacked nuance, plus ran through the entire piece. Kind of dull.

But even more, I thought that all three styles themselves were very uninspiring. Admittedly, they may be very authentic styles, as to the basic rhythm, but I never felt for a minute that I was listening to a real band (which T2, Ketron and Roland TOTL occasionally do), and I never got much in the way of any 'build' from the variations and fills that I get from most arrangers (even the mid-line ones).

I 'get' that you can put great solo sounds on top of styles with an 'open' arranger. No argument there. I only wish the styles themselves were of the quality of the lead sounds. It's not enough (for me) to have great lead sounds over an average (or below) style. To be frank, I think I would prefer the other way around. In fact, that is what I HAVE got... Inspiring styles, with only average lead sounds (comparatively to GIGA).

Seeing as how a song (when in full arranger mode) is 75% style, 25% lead sounds, I think this is the correct priority for an arranger. If you HAVE to give up one, you've got to play your ass off to overcome a poor style...

Richard, sorry about missing your demo in the Xmas rush... Nice tune and playing, but.... Sadly, again, it seems to demo how good the lead sounds can get, and how poorly (compared to T2, etc.) the styles are balanced, effected, and voiced. The sound quality is great, no doubt about it, but it only helps reveal the style shortcomings, IMO.

Fortunately, these problems ARE fixable (unlike the glacial sample load up times of the T2, or the VK organ routing problems of the G70/E80 - see, I'm NOT a rabid 'my arranger right or wrong guy!), but Domenik REALLY needs to concentrate on the CONTENT of the MS, not it's FEATURES for a while. An arranger is a combination of the two... neither side works without the other.

But keep the demos coming. What I'd REALLY like to hear is some styles re-worked for VSTi's, like DFH for drums, Scarbee Bass, GIGA brass and so on. No more Dream Chip GM rubbish. The styles need to be voiced for sounds that are as inspiring as the leads.

I have said all along that Dom needs to license a GOOD giga drum library, bass library, percussion, etc., and then develop the styles for THAT. Anything less just exposes the flaws in his earlier, less developed sound libraries. Time to ditch the Dream chip and ALL the GM dreck, and make the MS into what he has promised since day one.

If I had bought an MS two years ago on the strength of those promises. I'd be one pretty frustrated customer by now. Until ALL the pieces fit, it is STILL just that.... Promises.

Come on Diki, give MS a little slack !!!!! Every time we get any kind of dialog on this Keyboard, you shoot it down to the point that there is either a war going on or the thread stops..
I know your view and I respect your opinions,( you know that I mean this )...but it seems like you have a vendetta against them..
This forum is the only place where anyone has any chance of hearing from the MS users them selfs....
You are scaring everyone away, nobody wants to post a demo with the fear of your harsh words...HONEST but harsh

Ron

Dear,

I made one style that I promise it long time ago.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/7c854df6-1d3c-48b6-8bbc-40883a0ae7a7/16-Beat-Ballad

I made it with style 16 BEAT BALLAD and did not play anything over.

I hope that you will enjoy on this demo. I hope you will not hear my mistakes.


Best regards.

Magica Alfa

Nice ballad, Magica Alfa, I enjoyed the demo. As we post more demos maybe the versatility of the Mediastation will become apparent.

Scott, I think the first demo, the one that Diki referred to earlier was Santo Domingo.
Since the link expired, I am reposting here. http://www.yousendit.com/download/TEhWMFhxV3JBNkUwTVE9PQ
its only good for 7 days or 100 downloads. I think both trumpets and trombones were both used. I also enjoyed our phone conversation the other day and look forward to talking with you again.



Thanks "To the Genesys", I agree with you completely, and I'm glad to see that even people without access to a MS can come to the same conclusions.

Spalding, I will keep trying to get a larger variety of demos posted.

Diki, sorry to hear that you find all the Demos "uninspiring", everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do agree with you on one point though, that is concentrating on content for the Mediastation particularly custom styles that are designed from the ground up to take advantage of its unique features and strengths, would be of great value. This would be a step in arranger functionality that would surpass all other current arranger technology.

However I disagree that this fact invalidates the Mediastation. It is merely the difference between a super keyboard workstation with a fully competent arranger or a super keyboard workstation with an extremely advanced arranger that could be the key to erasing the notion that arrangers are inferior.

Ron, don't worry about the controversey as long as people like yourself post and show interest in more info about the MS I think the users like myself will continue to offer what we can ignoring the opinions against us.

Richard

Hi Richard

Thanx for uploading that for me again. I am listening to the MS demo's with interest and an open mind. But, I am reserving judgement for now because I'm using a couple dinky little speakers instead of my stereo, and because I think I need to hear more

Scott

Please, guys. I am trying as hard as I can to like the MS!

No one knows better than I do about the power of VSTi's, I use them on most of my studio productions... The idea of an arranger with VSTi streaming ability is of course the dream of every player. The problem starts when the dream and reality don't coincide. At some point in the MS's development, they probably will, and I'll jump on board then. But as Richard says, content is the key...

As to my take on the demos, well, when people offer them up as 'proof' that the MS is on a par with the T2, sorry, guys, I'm the little kid that dares say 'the Emperor has no clothes!'. Someone has to say it!

I am in no way criticizing the playing on the demos... everyone has their own unique abilities, playing isn't an issue. But the SOUND.... the styles.... the balance of effects. These demos are at least good enough that the RH playing is not a distraction, puzzling though it is, and show off the Ms's styles and lead sounds very well.

Are you REALLY sure that Tito isn't playing ANY real brass over the top of these sequences?

There's a very strange moment at 1:05 on the 'Tito_algodones..mp3' where one of the trumpet players is screaming at the top of his range, and it's just amazing! It sounds for all the world like it's completely outside his good range, and he's just hanging on by his teeth. Now this is either VERY good programming, almost obsessive about getting 'real' player qualities (you would normally program the trumpet to scream, yes, but fairly in tune and in time!), or a very dodgy set of GIGA samples. I just can't 'get' why he would program so carefully some pretty bad trumpet playing....

Please, everyone, take a listen to that section, and see what YOU think....

I guess my point is that average styles, using average sounds, with GIGA quality lead sounds STILL does not make a T2 beater. It is probably a lot of fun to play, for those sounds (and some of the earlier demos definitely pumped up the RH voices at the expense of the style), but would you consider going out and doing a gig with just the MS? If you HAD a T2 or E80, etc.? A few latin styles (poorly balanced, at that) don't persuade me. And, boy!, do I want to be persuaded! ...Honestly!

So...... I'd like to hear if ANYONE is gigging the MS professionally. Exclusively. And on a gig with a wide range of stylistic needs. You know, the sort of gig that many of us who work for a living (playing!) do.... And NOT using it as an SMF player or HD or mp3 player. Styles only.

You see, I believe that if you are doing a very specialized set list, or a short show, yes, the MS might get you through in style. But the rest of us, in the trenches, have to have equipment that can cover ANY song, ANY style. And sound good doing it, no balance or volume problems across the range. Just call up the style and GO!

THAT's why I use an arranger. If I wanted/needed to painstakingly tweak every style I use to use the best sounds available, or have to write styles to fit, well, I would probably end up using SMFs! If you are going to HAVE to put that much work in, might as well just make a custom SMF and get REALLY close to the record!

The T2 shows really well what happens when the styles and the sounds are developed together. The Mega guitar voices in the styles offer a realism that just doesn't translate well to other arrangers. The sound AND the style are one. Dom's piecemeal attitude to sound set and styles hasn't yet resulted in a consistent package yet. When he finally gets ALL the styles developed exclusively (not ported) for GIGA multi-velocity and Mega-type voices, for ALL the sounds in a style (he's been promising it for quite a while), and hires some of the best in the business to develop styles for one consistent sound set, then finally, we are really going to have an amazing arranger.

The trouble is that his progress is so slow, and the pace of technology so fast, a competitor (maybe even the big 3) may leapfrog him, or at least dilute his profits (and subsequent R&D budget) with a competitor. The sooner his style library and GIGA sound set is complete and fully integrated, the better it will be for him.

I do NOT want to shoot Dom down. Far from it. But I hope that my constant calling him out on these unfulfilled promises is perhaps a goad to get him to realize that we are PLAYERS, not Linux geeks. We don't want constant OS updates. We just want the T2 beater (at it's own game, NOT features) that he has been calling the MS for over two years...

The day you can pick ANY style on the MS, and it sound better than the T2 equivalent, THEN he will have what he claims he has now.

I can't wait.....

I’m using MS for LIVE PLAYING on weddings and on parties and also in bigger places here. I play it as arranger with styles and sometimes I use it as karaoke manager for people who want to sing and now me preparing for them also projecting of KARAOKE TEXT on big screen all from MS. I will use original video files and that will be great advantage. Next thing why I use MS is for band with 5 persons and I can say that also here is good solution. I have good sinth with a lot of good sounds and in splits I can make what I want and good is that here are the best solutions also VST instruments.

On slide here on SZ you can see my picture from one gig with MS.


Diki I hope that you see my new style demo:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/7c854df6-1d3c-48b6-8bbc-40883a0ae7a7/16-Beat-Ballad

If you can give some suggestions, you are welcome.


Best regards.

Magica Alfa

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 04-25-2007).]

that demo sounds very impressive and extremely 'live'. love the drums!!

Im not tooooo impressed with the steel guitar, but the rest sounds great. nearly sounds like a recording of a live band in a hall or something...

thats the best MS demo i have heard so far...
good stuff Alfa!

its about time we heard some good quality arranger styles come out of it!!

most of the video demos i have seen are just someone playing an MP3 or a WAV file and using sliders to change the equalizer and basic stuff like that.

Diki...I keep hearing in your posts your praise for the T2....whats holding you back from getting one? 76 keys or?