I spent an hour playing the G70 at my local music shop here in South Africa. When I had phoned the store they told me the list price was $5000 but that I could have it for $4000.
When I got to the store it was marked at "$3600 cash". So the price dropped fast in just a week.

Ok bear in mind that my previous keyboard was a Roland VA5. And bear in mind these are my personal views..... :-)

The G-70 is a huge impressive looking keyboard at nearly 1.3 metres long and quiet heavy but I'm afraid thats where it ends. Its color screen is not as bold and clear as the Tyros. The screen is a big improvement on the VA5 though.

I played alot of sounds and I personally think they are useless (SHAME ON YOU ROLAND). Almost all the sounds are the same as the VA5 with just a few new sounds thrown in. I would like to know where did all that 192mb of sound go to. My VA5 had 48mb and yet they sound alike. I tried the flutes,guitars,sax,piano, even that much acclaimed piano called "The grand X" and I have to say they were crap compared to the tyros I tried out last week.

Look when I had my VA5, I enjoyed the sounds because I hadnt had those sounds before...After some time I tested a Tyros and it blew away the VA-5. Now I thought this G-70 would have sounds that could rival the Tyros but alas to me ....it doesnt even come close..simply because this huge keyboard is just a re-designed VA7 in a way.

Yes there are lots of editing features, the vocal harmony is better than tyros, lots of buttons, but sounds are most important to me......who needs a good looking keyboard if the sounds arent as good....(Tyros looks awesome and sounds awesome)

The drum kits are the same as VA-5 with a new new kits added.

The styles are improved over the VA series but do not have that "in your face" power of the tyros styles...

This keyboard is DEFINETLY not for anyone who does not like the sounds of the VA7. But if you liked the VA7 sounds, then you will like this G70.

I give it 3 out of 10 simply because it sounds crap.....I dont care how many features it has. I was so looking foward to this G-70....and Roland give us the same old sounds....

The G-70 is not in the league of the Tyros,Ketron SD1, Korg PAX...

Ok...send in those hate messages now ...

and yes... I will still use my username....

I was gonna get a tyros but I'm holding out for Tyros 2.

How can you say that only yours is 'the truth' about G-70.
Do you mean that people saying that they like the G-70 sounds is telling lies?
Each one can say his opinion, but no one can say that it's the only truth.

[This message has been edited by o3bor (edited 05-18-2005).]

...Rolandfan is right...

I'm using Roland Fantom X6, Kurzweil k2661, and buying Ketron SD1plus... I did try G70 at friends music shop...it don't sound a half as SD1,or any other synth in this category...it's so big...!!only!! thing that I like are keys... maybe some trumpet sounds...

sLOWER

Ok Rolandfan,(maybe you should change your username now)that's your opinion. But to me the G-70 is much better than my old VA-7 and compared to Tyros,Ketron and Korg, the G-70 is the clear winner.

And that's what counts for me.
That's my truth!

Rolandfan,

I'm not sure..... but I think your 'truth' still is my personal view

Indeed rather presumptuous to claim this to be the Truth about the G-70.
Although I have regulary vented my disappointment with this keyboard I would like to repeat once more what I said on its introduction: "It is completely useless trying to form an opinion on this board by playing it out-of-the-box in a shop, even with the operating system 1.10 installed"
all Roland keyboards come with crappy factory presets and defaults that do no justice to the real potential of their keyboards. I programmed on the G800 for years and what I came up with was lightyears ahead (so to speak) of what it sounded like just out of the box. Too bad that the G70 does not read the G800 user program settings. It does convert the G1000 settings, or so I have been told, which is a start. But the truth is you have an incredible amount of programming and tweaking to do before it gets anywhere. And even then I am under the impression it is not all that far removed from the VA series, be it that it has a number of ultra modern features and storing capacity that cannot be found on the VA series.
Apart from MP3 demos etc. I still have to hear the first G-70 live to impress me, and despite the numbers sold so far it would be a bit steep it seems to me to speak of a great success for the new Roland top arranger. Anyway in essence I agree with most of the things said by "Rolandfan".....

What????



------------------
Precision Mastering
http://vilo4.tripod.com/precisionmastering/

Master Your CD With Us!
Ask Me About it!
www.vicente-lopez.com

HE'S COMING, MAKE MUSIC, GET READY!

Maybe my English is not clear enough, but what I mean is that I can understand someone saying that he doesn't like G-70, but I cannot understand that he states that this is 'the Truth'.
People (like me and others) saying they like the G-70 are not liars or incompetents.

eb3bor: Rolandfan never even once stated (or even implied) in his review, that his opinions about the G70 were intended as 'the truth'. In fact, he made certain to preface his review by stating: "these are my PERSONAL views".

I personally found Rolandfan's review 'well balanced'. On that note, I myself am looking forward to forming my own personal opinion after I have the opportunity to checkout the G70 myself.

Scott

The title of the thread is "The TRUTH about Roland G-70". I found this to be - at least - excessive.
Anyway, no problem...

This is his truth.. What is truth for him. With a username like Rolandfan, I am sure he is being objective about what is true for him. As much as Rolandfan would love to like a Roland, they have failed again in his opinion. I have not tried the G70, problable never will, but I have tried other Roland arangers and was disapponted compared to a similar priced Yamaha. I guess I am a Yamaha convert. I still own a Roland keyboard... for now.
Starkeeper

Dear Scott/Others;

I have a problem with you saying that RolandFans Reviews is balanced. How can you have an insight into a G-70 review if you have never played the G-70? I believe what you are reading in Rolandfans review is the anger and frustration that he is expressing because he is unhappy with the new release compared to his VA series ( which I can understand). I also think that he is not being very unbiased by giving it 3/10 --"it sounds like crap" Ratings of 3/10 for sound are usually given to Kbs that are sold at walmart for $200. Further, the statement that one keyboard "blew away" another keyboard is just inflammatory. Kbs in this category have similar technologies, and it is not until you go into the realm of OAS/softsynths that one leaps in terms of sound quality.

As I mentioned in another thread. All these top model aranger keyborads are very similar and are really not that different. Each keyboard has its pros & cons. They are ultimately chosen by consumers based on personal preference. Remember, one man's barn is another man's castle. So, to say one Kb is superior to another can't be the case. One has to take into account the frame of reference and ask the next question, superior for what player & why?


Regards;
BN

BlkNotes: Hmmm. By balanced, I meant that I felt Rolandfan pointed out not only the G70 features he didn't like, but GOOD features he liked as well:



BlkNotes: The G70 has been receiving the most 'mixed reviews' of any arranger keyboard released that I can remember. As I pointed out (and quoted) on another thread:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010744.html

Steve Fortner, of Keyboard magazine gave it a stellar review. As I stated earlier in this thread, I myself am with-holding personal judgement re the G70 until I've had a chance to audition one myself. In the meantime, I certainly appreciate reading the wide diversity of personal opinions expressed here about the G70 as well as any other arranger keyboard.

Scott

I am interested in learning as much as I can about the G70, so I will read almost any thread that mentions it. Rolandfan's topic sure got us to read his opinion, didn't it - that's the point.

NOW, as I read the first few replies, I said to myself this is exactly why The Pro and others have left the forum. This is petty stuff. It wasn't until Scott, Starkeeper and others started replying that I felt anything of value was being said. This is my complaint about new members. They are easily offended and tend to get snippy over useless stuff.

I still think the VA will be hard to beat and continues this day to be my favorite board. Different strokes for.....
zuki

Dear Scott;

I re-read Rolnafans's reviews again to make sure i perceived it correctly the first time. Here are the only positive items he mentioned about the KB.

"The G-70 is a huge impressive looking keyboard at nearly 1.3 metres long and quiet heavy but I'm afraid thats where it ends."

"Yes there are lots of editing features, the vocal harmony is better than tyros, lots of buttons"

I believe there is much more negative then positive comments on his review. My intent was just to point out his that I didn't think his review was non-biased. Because of comments like; " 3/10 because it sounds like crap", " it was blown away", "not in the same league" etc.. As well as the extreme range of comments. Having experience with all of these KBs, not one of them "blows" the others away.

I also read the Steve Fortner's review in Keyboard magazine and found it to be a very superficial non-informative piece. I found it to be disappointing and almost like a info-mercial. If one compares past review articles on KBs ( in particular the Tyros in KB mag) it is easy to see how the G-70 deserved a much more thorough assesment. What do other SZ members think?

Regards;
BN

Good to see 'On Topics'

All I can say is I am going to the doctor to get my hearing checked??? To say the sounds are useless on the G70 means I have a hearing problem!!

[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 05-18-2005).]

After all the different comments it's clear you can't argue about personal tasts, but there's one thing never mentionned so far!

A lot of the likes or dislikes could have something to do with the playing technique!

To get expressive sounds from a Roland(exception are the hammond simulations) you need to be able to make use of the aftertouch, where Roland excels in my opinion.
On the other hand this means that playing the board as a synth it will very often result in dull sounds.
Personally I never needed any volume pedal on the roland boards with aftertouch.
Hitting hard is hard.
Hitting soft is soft.

This is one of the reasons I do not feel comfortable on a Yamaha (also the keys are too small on a yamaha).
It's allways hard for me on a yamaha , I cannot play soft/mellow on these boards.
It seems that unweighted keyplayers prefer Yamaha and from origin piano players prefer Roland?

Interesting to find out...

For what it's worth, G70 is the best professional looking arranger keyboard in my opinion, I do own SD1 that I love and Tyros, but still like to have G70, unfortunately it's price is too high for me.

Rolandfan said the G70 sounds crap and gave it 3 out of 10. I have tested the keyboard in store twice. The first time was for over an hour and a half with it set up side by side with the Korg PA1X and the Tyros. next to those boards i would have given the G70 a 3 out of 10. I recently went into the same shop and they informed me that the operating system had been upgraded to the latest os. It still got 3 out of 10 to me. Now either those of you that have liked the G70 have never heard the other keyboards i have mentioned or Roland have some serious quality control issues as some of the units they are shipping truly sound crap !!!

By the way thats my truth.

please Spalding do you mind to mention what are you playing now?

weighted/semi weighted or unweighted keyboard.?

I have never heard the G70, but I recently bought a Roland RD700SX. The paino is superb, but I was surprised at how bad so many of the other voices sounded. I find it hard to believe that someone like Roland would throw in a bunch of substandard voices into a wonderful paino like the RD700SX as 'fluff' just so they can say it has a ton of voices.

Did someone of the G70 owners/lovers make recent recordings for sharing ? (please give the URL)

It IS amazing how different players think about this machine. Spalding could have a good point about one unit sounding better than others. (Mine absolutely sounded like crap!)

Playing technique / ability to use features sure 'help' to build an opinion. The sound- and style-impression during intro's, styles, breaks etc. have nothing to do with player-skills : You like it..... or don't.

rolandfan do you know what version of the OS was in the keyboard. To some people this does seem to have made a difference (and too others not a lot).

Although in another thread spalding tested what the shop assistant claimed was the latest OS and it still seemed below par. spalding did you actually look at the OS version on power up to double check. Just a thought they may just have thought it was the latest.

All very confusing.

I am meant to be picking up one of these boards secondhand tommorrow, just getting slightly cold feet. I guess I really need to give it a fair trial. In the end I can always sell it on with minimal loss.

I have tried one with version 1.06 and had mixed feelings in the shop (love the key feel)- but then I find that no matter how long I spend trying it in the shop its no substitute for getting home and using it for a month. I just want to like it for the keys.

I hope spalding's hunch is not correct regarding quality control and hardware issues, this was in the back of my mind. The other thought was is it a difference between using headphones or monitors.

Guess I'll find out over the next few weeks.

Paul.

I do not post this much as a rule but I am very passionate about this subject. Could there be G70's out there that are duds???? I have been playing and have owned arranger KB's for over 25 yrs. I can not beleive someone could listen to this KB and say it sounds like crap!! I am amazed. Maybe you do not like this or that, that I understand! But to rate it soo low ..... I'm confused??

Wow!!
This discussion really underscores how much we have to demo keyboards our selves and not depend on others.


When listening to a review of a keyboard from another member we have to take in to consideration what brand of keyboard the person has and is using, the playing style of the person and the taste of the person.

I am just so amazed as to how the G70 has so much different opinions.

The only thing with going to hear a demo of the G70 now after reading these reviews, is that we would probably be listening with a more critical ear so we may not give it a real unbiased opinion.

You see if we go and demo a Yamaha Tyros, Korg Pa1x, Gem Genesys or Ketron Sd1, we have more or less read relatively good reviews so when we demo them we are not thinking --------- this keyboard is bad let me see if it can prove me wrong----. However, with demoing the G70 now, that is probably the attitude we will have whether consciously or subconsciously.

Also, we have to make sure that we know where to find the “good” sounds on the keyboards. Sometimes, they are not the first sounds you hear. They may be hidden!!!

With 192 mb of sounds, I fail to see how the sounds on the G70 can be useless. Unless there are no sound editing features on that board.

I do agree that sounds are important but for me, factory presets are not as important as what I could do with them. I want to know if I am going to be forking out a lot of money, I want to know that I can personalize the keyboard (sounds, styles memories and so on) to my liking and needs. The totality of the keyboard is very important to me.

First of all, Rolandfan is absolutely right. I tested the G70 and it is probably the worst sounding arranger in its class on the market. Secondly, the wave Rom size of 192MB is not the physical size. You will see „when expanded to 16bit linear“ in small letters on all Roland brochures. The data is compressed and I assume the actual size of the ROM is 128 MB. Thirdly, you can fill 50 GB or more with useless poor sounding waves. The size does not say anything about the sound quality. That is like judging a book by the number of the pages.

I was not going to comment on this thread...but what the heck..
Since I have not played the G70 yet, I was refraining from commenting on this keyboard..
But let me say a few things..If the G70 sounds exactly like a VA7/76..I will be thrilled with the sounds[I already know that the engine is more like the Fantom].
If the G70 has the same goodies from the DisCover 5 [Covers and Vocal harmonizer], I will be thrilled with the features..
If the G70 has the same VK organ engine[like the VR760], and it does, I will be thrilled again..

Put all this together with the feel and quality of the G1000...I will be thrilled to high end..
Some of the post surprise me..but most are from people that are stuck[I mean own] other brands..They are use to poor sample waves buried in effects[some very good effects], but still overdone...Strip the effects and listen too the Korgs and Yamahas..you will hear the real quality[or lack of it]..
Personally the only manufacturer that has better sounds than Roland to my ears[partially deaf in one ear], is Ketron..the X1 and the SD1 still amaze me[especially bass and drums]..
I am so tired of listening to the other guys built in fake vibrato in to the sounds[without control]..As mentioned by another, Roland has the Ace of spade with the aftertouch control..

Many have said the early G70's had too much effects on the presets[maybe they thought they had to sound like the competition]..but. the latest version release has corrected the presets..

For those that think the styles are useless, maybe your ears are worse than mine..

Roland Fan,If the G70 sounds like your Va...that's a good thing[3/10..come on]..maybe you were having a bad day..

There are also a few die hard Korg guys that think a little work in setting a keyboard to your taste is out of the question...You guys got to get away from the Korg PA 50 and play an SD1[and I an confident the G70 in a masters hands will do the trick]..

George has already stated a complete reversal of appreciation for the G70 with the new release[compared to his initial impression]...and George is not just interested in selling his stock[the REAL TRUTH}..

When I do finally get a chance to spend time with a G70...I will tell you my findings good or bad....but knowing the G70 is a collective ensemble of Roland's top products...I know it is good..

Just play what you like, but if you don't know for sure about a product..reserve your opinions , not to mislead someone from even trying it..

No dis respect was intended, although it might have sounded like it...

I can't wait for my chance to play this "crap" keyboard..

PS: The reason Roland always states the 16 lineral..because that is how the competition is measured..and size does make a difference...You may still get a poor sample even in a large wave, but it will be a lot more rare than getting a good sample wave from a very small wave size.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 05-18-2005).]

A lot of text – considering you did not listen to the instument discussed.

I have owned every component[instrument] that the G70 has built in it's case[ VA7, DisCover5 ,VR760 , Fantom X and G1000]
I will match my wit about Roland stuff..you would be surprised how much I know[even without touching the G70]

BTW..I have also owned the other boards in my comparisons..


Text is good, but know how is still better..

Where did you get that information? You would be surprised how little you know...

Fran,
I was thinking/hoping the same you do now, but was SOOOO disappointed after the G70 arrived in my studio and started playing on it.... fortunately (for me) I'm not the only one anymore
Please TRY it !

Idont know which OS system wason the keyboard when i tested it recentley but the shop owner knows me vvery well as i have shopped there for over 15 years. When i first tested the G70 i raised my concern with the poor sound quality and the overdone reverb effect and so tnbe owner assured me that he would get the latest OS sytem to correct it as his business is to seel the units. When i went in recently knew what i was going to ask before i opened my mouth and told me that he had upgraded the OS last month so i assume it was the latest upgrade.

Members have mentioned here that maybe its the playing style or technique that makes the difference in sound quality. Others w have said that its about how some of the best sounds are "hidden " or that you have to dig into the keyboard to appreciate its quality.

Let me ask this simple question , when was the last time yopu heard of a manufacturer trying to sell a product by hiding its beast features ? When was the last time you purchased a (small car priced) keyboard that sounded (initially ) crap on the basis of what you felt it might potentially sound like ?

I play currently the Yamaha psr 8000 and want to upgrade but for my hard earned money , there is simply no way that Roland could persuade me to "upgrade" to the G70 for even half the cost.

WE can argue about styles, thats just amatter of taste.We can argue about ease of use, thats just a matter of familiarity. But the G70 that i have given more of my time to than really i should and it simply sounds poor. I dont care how much processing power it has,how great the samples are supposed to be. I have heard the roland fantom x piano. My nephew has the keyboard. It sounds great. Ihave heard the roland fantom x souind through the G70. There is something seriously wrong. I believe that that Roland have rushed this product tothe market and i dont know why the OS upgrades have done little tomake a difference to the sound quality but it hasnt. Heres a little test for the G70 owners . Go to a music shop and listen to the Fantom X piano and then compare it to the G70 piano.If it sounds the same then it would confirm to me that Roland have produced some duff G70 units

Fran,
This time I have to disagree with you substantially. (ah, to be expected from a Korg player, I hear you say !!).
First of all your equation in my opinion is a faulty one.(VA7 +Discover 5+ G1000= G-70)
My personal experience with Roland, which was a very positive one ended with the arrival of the G1000, which was only a minor leap forward compared to the G800, soundwise that is. (structurally they are identical). As mentioned earlier in this thread I programmed very extensively on the G800 and hence my statement that ALL Roland keyboards need very extensive programming and tweaking by the user to get substantial results. In this respect the G70 is no different but even a shade worse. (to say that the recent updates have substantially improved the machine is absolute nonsense in my opinion.)
A very important factor to take into consideration is the absence of internal speakers on account of which the board will always sound somewhat different wherever you play it depending on the speaker system used. But of course this cannot be the main reason for faulting this arranger keyboard.
I must also be critical of your (valued) contribution cause as you state yourself you have never ever seen the thing let alone played it therefore it would be wiser I think to suspend your evaluation.
Personally I have played it for a couple of hours on several occasions at a friend of mine and like I have stated several times , have always come away disenchanted.
Contrary to many views I find programming on it not so pleasant ( the touch screen is in fact minute compared to the size of the keyboard, a sort of Technics vice versa if you get my drift) and it took me ages to get anywhere near a decent total registration. Once I had got that far I kinda thought, this is not too bad........
Incidentally I am one of the Korg PA50 guys you are referring to (??) . All I can say is that I have played the KOrg PA80/50 for nearly 4 years now and to my heart's content. The only thing stopping me from getting the PA1X is finances.
Many here also think the SD1 is the best.
I agree it is a very good board that I have owned twice myself, but in the end I was personally disappointed with the repetitiveness of the styles. (generally one bar, two at most). With Korg most styles run the length of at least 2 bars and often 4 or more, which in my opinion makes it much more versatile.
All the discussions and contrasting views on the G70 in themselves prove to me that this is by no means everybody's cup of tea.
I cannot recall any such a debate going on with the arrival of the other top arrangers, generally everybody wanted to have one but was only held back by the strings of his/her purse.
Like Roel I am curious to learn whether anyone has got anything to share with us that is not Roland pre-cooked, but my personal experiences with the board are truly disappointing.
In all fairness I should add that another good friend of mine, who has had all Roland keyboards from the day one, thinks it is the best board ever................
I am also anxious to learn what Scott's assessment once he gets his hands on it !!

regards,
john

I've tried 3 different G-70:s and they all sounded the same(very good!).

Maybe there are some bad amplifier/speaker systems that's causing some of the negative opinions here? I always play a new keyboard through a good pair of headphones just to make sure that the amp/speakers doesn't affect the sound in a bad way.

I find it very strange that many people here seems to be very positive about the old G-1000, and then completely dislike the G-70?!
To me, that doesn't make sense!

Hey,Rolandfan, you really started an intresting discussion here and it's fun to read all the comments, good or bad!

Turnip:
'Bad speakers' ? ..... no way! I played it on the same ones I allways use: Mackie SRM450's and Yamaha MSP5's as well.

It's funny you choose for headphones to get a best impression. Headphone amps in keyboards tell not much about the sound quality. (Many have poor quality IMHO)

btw Similar interesting threads were started around Dec 18th 2004 At that time some people disliked my views very much ...

Do you own a G70? If yes could you send me an own MP3 recording ?

Hi

I will make some mp3 demos of the G-70 in a couple of days.

Regards Niels

Oh dear. Just as I was about to make up my mind as to which arranger to buy.

I tried the Tyros and PSR3000 and frankly the sounds sounded washed out with reverb and just a little 'cheesy' to me. Liked the styles, but in the end the 61 note keyboard meant it was off my list.

Next I tried to demo a PA1xpro in Sam Ash's in NY. Neither of the guys in the shop could drive it (couldn't get the arranger section going at all) and in the end gave up saying that someone had probably messed with the demo unit and it needed a factory reset.

So I came back to Birmingham and, like Spalding, tried out their G70. I was impressed with it - the first Roland I liked since my D70 died a few years ago. I had to replace that with a Kurzweil at the time to get anything as good.

I've always avoided arrangers as they do have a reputation for being cheesy (although I did own a QY20 which was lots of fun - and worked on the beach on holidays!).

I still wanted to compare the Korg so I went back to Sound Control the other day and guess what? The same problem with the PA1x. The two guys in there couldn't make it work. We tried between us for over an hour and even got the manual out and called the Korg UK rep but to no avail. I know lots of you guys have PA1x's out there so they must work :-). I like the sounds (except the piano - never liked Korg pianos - I have a Yammy P200 for that). But I decided I can't take the risk of something that seems so obscure to operate.

You might ask why I need to 'upgrade' from a Kurzweil? But it doesn't gig too well as the K2500 and the P200 weigh a ton between them. I think all three manufacturers have matured their units and lost the cheesiness which seemed to define arrangers before meaning they could be a viable gig-in-a-box unit for me. So I just made up my mind to go for the Roland when this thread started. Life just isn't fair!

[This message has been edited by andrewpowell (edited 05-19-2005).]

Ok Heres what I wanna say.... Sorry for this long reply...

I didnt expect so many replies and I think its great to see so many people here so "passionate" about the top end arrangers. Its good....no its GREAT to debate like this.

I enjoy reading negative and positive posts...Its make me learn more from you...Our collective knowledge on this general arrager forum (in my view) is better than most other keyboard opinion sites on the net...

About 4-5 years ago when the VA series came out I remember someone posting a topic with the headline "The truth about Roland VA7/76"
I remember it still...and decided to go with it. I respect EVERY single one of you and I didnt intend for it to mean that I am telling the truth and you are all liars ( I'm terribly sorry if it came out that way) I merely meant that this was my own personal truth that I discovered for MY self.

I will stick with 3/10 for the sounds with this explanation....Compared to my ex Va-5 I will give it 9 out of 10 BUT compared to other top arrangers that cost the price of a small car I give it only a 3.


When I purchased my VA-5 2 years ago, I thought it was awesome at the time and I rated it 8/10 because it DID sound much better than the E86/G800/G1000. I bought the VA-5 in an instant.

Then last year my friend bought a Tyros and to me the Tyros had far superior sounds than my VA-5. So I thought to myself...not to worry cos the soon to be released G-70 will have the mother of all sound engines. And when I played it a few days ago...I was terribly disappointed. There was barely a difference to my VA-5. I expected a huge difference in sound but for me...there wasnt any.

I dont know what operating system it was.

The G-70 I was connected to a pair of JBL speakers. To me...when I hear a basic unedited sound on a Roland...I can somehow figure out how good I would be able to get it to sound...simply because its the sound is the basic structure...and with the G-70 even with the DSP effects etc I knew I would not be happy...

Why didnt Roland put a brand new sound engine? I was so hoping to to buy this G-70 that I took cash with me to the shop hoping to take it home the same afternoon that I tested it..

There are lots of good features no doubt such as : features taken from the VS Recorder,Vocal Harmony, Key Feel, Impressive looks, Improved styles over VA5, Cover feature, but sounds is most important to me. No quality sounds = no deal for me.

I look foward to Frans in-depth review and the other side of the coin. I have a GREAT deal of respect for him.




[This message has been edited by rolandfan (edited 05-19-2005).]

I couldn't agree more.
Fran I wait for your review of the G70 not just for how it sounds out of the box but as an experienced Roland user it would be interesting to see if the G70 has the basic sound and style structure, tools and potential to be a real top arranger in 2005 and beyond.

Exactly!



------------------
Precision Mastering
http://vilo4.tripod.com/precisionmastering/

Master Your CD With Us!
Ask Me About it!
www.vicente-lopez.com

HE'S COMING, MAKE MUSIC, GET READY!

The G-70 sound engine is actually new if compared with VA's one.
The effect section has been strongly improved and a lot of new sounds (more than 150) has been included:
Grand Piano, VK-8 Hammond Clone, Electric Guitars with Distortion/Overdrive, Nylon and Steel Guitar, Saxophones, Flutes, Hammond preset tones, Electric Pianos, Electric Basses, Choirs, Leads, Pads, Accordions, Oriental sounds and Drum Kits,...
All of these sounds are brand new sounds or coming from last Roland products.

Maybe you don't like anyone of these new sounds, but you cannot say that there's no appreciable difference with VA.

I have to agree with Ohrenarzt's opinion of the G70. Many of the sounds are extremely similar to those off the Roland JV1080 Expansion boards of the early 90s (which I know very well)although the overall quality of the G70 versions are worse. I tested the 3 accordion presets and simply played C3 - each preset was out of tune with the next and ALL were out of tune with concert.

The acoustic guitar samples (especially the "hard picked" samples) are so out of tune to my ears that I laughed out loud when I played them (String sampled so hard that the pitch warps unpleasantly). They also sound very thin and nasty. The acoustic Piano does not even sound like a piano, let alone sound anywhere near as good as the JV1080 PRA 004 Nice Piano,until recently one of my favourites. . . .

The version of the G70 that I played also had the software anomaly of failing to affect the drawbar settings until I had pushed the slider beyond the value of the preset value, certainly not a realistic Hammond effect. The styles were limp as well as having many errors in the chord voicing, in my view, the demos were rooted somewhere in the GRP 80s and the level of reverb was astonishing, as if trying to "hide" the poor sound quality.

I have been a long time Roland fan, ever since the Juno 6 and VP330, and considering the company's fantastic history and ability to innovate and trend-set, I do not know what possessed them to put the thing on the market in this state. How many more software updates are going to be required to make it a genuine contender in the arranger marketplace. Surely it is not the paying public's job to betatest a 5000 dollar keyboard!

Wow!
Yesterday I received a phone call from one of my best customers who has purchased at least one of every keyboard brought up here the past two days. Tyros, PA1XPRO, Ketron SD1 and just a month ago a Roland G70. Upon his receiving the G70, a phone call came saying that although he liked many things about the G70, he thought he might want to return it because he just didn't think the voices and their associated effects sounded that great......
This was the same day that I received the version 1.10 software upgrade (Italy refers to as "the George Kaye request" upgrade because I complained to them at the NAMM show about the overuse of effects, etc.).
My customer waited, upgraded and called me two days later and said "this keyboard is the greatest". "I love the piano and the more I play it the more I enjoy all the other sounds".
So yesterday, after reading this topic, my freind called me and asked if I've been reading all these posts with those that love and those that seem to hate (might be too strong a word....dislike!) the G70 sounds.
I went over to my display with the G70 above, the PA1XPRO below, the SD1plus just to the left and a PSR3000 just below this one and a Genesys Pro.........my point here is that I have all of them with my ability to try them and compare all at the same time.....
I think the G70 sounds great.......I choose different sounds to compare and to my ear, when comparing Tenor Sax as an example, I listened to the softest touch play and increased my touch to hear the realisim in the sound of the mouthpiece, the pads, the air...........and although I've loved the Korg's Tenor sax and the Ketron SD sounds, I actually like the G70 better.
I avoided getting involved hear because as a store owner, I didn't want my friends and customers here to think "George sells the G70 and doesn't want to see sales go down so he's telling us how much he likes it". I think most of you know me pretty well and know how opinionated I am.
For this reason, I decided to spend a couple of hours yesterday comparing keyboards in my store again.
If I am disappointed with one thing on the Roland G70, it would be that I would have liked more styles within certain catagories. I would have like to have more "live styles", some Ethnic styles, etc. However, because of my complaining to Roland Italy about this, they have begun creating free styles and putting them on the Roland Club website. The first four are great, but I would like to see a lot more and fast!
I would also like to mention two more things which were brought up here in earliear posts.
First, After one downloads the update from Roland's website and transfers the update via USB cable, there is still another step which must be done from the G70 to actually load the update and make it take effect. I hope all the stores are aware of this and don't think that by just installing the system it has changed.
Next, many times before I talk about the quality of a good demo by the dealer. Someone who knows what to show you and how to explain it. And of course, the quality of a sound system is very important. I also worry if someone has played around with a keyboard and changed parameters which could have changed the sound quality.
All this said, and I agree that it's great to go and play each keyboard when you can and if you can, my opinion is that all these top keyboards sound very good, none of them in my opinion deserve low marks in sounds, styles, features, but realize that we all have sounds that we think are best for our own tastes and our comparisons are often made by what we know and expect to hear. (I hope this makes sense and I'm not offending anyone with my words). I sell keyboards, I'm not an English teacher, like my wife!
It's interesting to me that almost everytime a new keyboard comes out, discussions like this follow. We have some very passionate people here.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566

Hi

Here is a little demo http://nielshs.homepage.dk

regards

George,

On the subject of G70 sounds, one thing that confuses me is that the G70 has a slot for an SRX sound expansion card. But as these cards are older than the G70 and as Roland state the G70 has the largest set sound bank ever (for them). What sounds are already in the G70 compared with the SRX cards? In other words, is there a danger of purchasing a SRX and finding the sounds were already in the G70 to begin with?

Hoping you can enlighten me on this 'cos the info on the Roland websites is hazy.

Can you compare the Roland G70 piano directly with the fantom X piano George ?

Thanks George, THAT is a valid comparison and I'm sure is will be very valuable to those considering the G70.
DonM

I own G70 since mid january. I was rather disappointed after trying it at home, but decide not return it. And win. After installing OS 1.10 I am completely satisfied. It is great keyboard with great sounds and features. I think that with OS 1.10 G70 is good right out of a box.

Ailev: Please detail the dramatic sound improvements heard by you with 1.10, which now make the G70 sound good 'right out of the box'. Thanks. - Scott

/

Just my opinion

The guitar chinks sound great. Drums are better than my Tyros but not quite as good as my PA-80 - Piano - I have a Yamaha p120 so I am spoiled. I was really looking forward to hearing a g70 so thanks for that. OH well, I can buy a lot of samples for 4 gs.

Danny

Hi everybody!

As a few of you might remember I had my mind set to get the G70 also but hesitated for a few months. I tried it two times in the music store and once at a fellow member of the Dutch forum. I was not fully convinced at that time to trade in my Technics KN6500. I was still "in love" with the great looks and the suberb keybed of the G70 though.

Anyway, I tried it again when the 1.10 OS version was available. This time I didn't feel the need to switch of the FX button with each sound. I simply sounded GREAT.
To make a long story short, I got a good deal on trading in my KN6500 and have the G70 in my house for a week now.

I can only summarize my experiences with my G70 as very positive. It has by far the best sounds of every arranger I previously owned and as such is a great improvement over my KN6500. The styles seem to be very usable in practice. It took some time to get used to the way the fills and intros/endings are handled, but I feel comfortable with that now.

Some voices that really impress me are:
the Blown AltoSax and some more saxes, almost all the guitars are really great, the acoustic piano, the electric pianos, the harmonica, flutes, organs, pads and the vocals.

The realtime controll with the sliders is very nice and the way it handles midifiles is also good. I immediately found my way around on it so the OS is very intuitive, particularly when you consider all it's possibilities and features. Allthough I think it is more user friendly than the Korg PA1X-Pro I also think this board is not for the "faint of heart".

I have a lot of fun with it. And no, I am not going to post MP3's. I consider myself too much an amateur for that. My music is only to bother people at home ;-)

------------------
Tom NL

[This message has been edited by Tom NL (edited 05-19-2005).]

Tom, maybe you can loan it to me...Maybe the SZ guys and gals will chip in on the transportation cost!!

Andrew,
The Expansion boards available each have hundreds of additional sounds not found on the G70. Even if there are a few already in the G70, there's just so many additional sounds found on each of the cards.
I am turning on the Fantom X6 as I write this post to give an opinion on the piano sounds stock from the factory.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Ha! As a matter of fact I am really anxious to know what you think of this instrument. If it where possible I would be more than happy to let you try it out.

I think I am not biased, and owned Yamaha, Roland and Technics arrangers before. If this one is not to my liking in the long term I would not hestitate to skip to another brand (if my finances allow it). But I am very happy with my new keyboard now. Although I already played it a few times before and knew a lot about it, I am pleasantly surprised by the way it sounds at home. It puts a smile on my face when I play it and I think that's what it is all about :-)

Tom.

[This message has been edited by Tom NL (edited 05-19-2005).]

OK,
I moved my G70 over to the same sound system as the Fantom X7 is plugged into through a pair of Behringer B2030A powered monitors and with no additional EQ, just flat! Here's the facts:
I put the Fantom on the first piano patch which is called "Ultimate Grand". I put the G70 on it's default Piano patch "Grand X".
From the softest played notes up to the hardest hit keys up to C4, they sound exactly the same. From C4 and up, the G70 becomes better to my ear. The soft through hard notes played on the fantom Ultimate Grand don't become as bright at the hardest hit levels, where the G70 will actually sound a bit more "live or real" when played very hard. I'm guessing this could because of the way they set the velocity levels for both. Maybe the Fantom can "get there" as well but not factory out of the box. So,
those that say the fantom piano and the G70 are not the same.......my opinion is that the G70 is even better out of the box, but maybe the fantom can be made to sound as good. Also, if you install the ultimate piano card from Roland into either board, this piano might even be more what you like. I however, really like the pianos in both keyboards stock from the factory.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene

Scottyee, I mentioned it already several times in SZ: sounds became better with OS 1.07 -- first of all basses less boomy, acoustic instruments more dry and crisp and brighter. I own VA-76, G70 not even comparable with it, it is from another category. This is first piano sound from arranger that have no electronics in it -- to my ear. And best keyboard action.

In 1.10 updated styles sounds more vivid and less boring. Sounds the same as at 1.07.

Now I am happy with G70.

Thanks a lot for all your trouble George! I was curious about this comparison.



------------------
Tom NL

So George it can only be that the sales people at Sound control have not updated the latest OS correctly or the one in the shop is a dud ! Thanks for taking the time. So where doi go to hear an updated "opereational " G70 in the UK ? Anyone got any ideas ?

I can't find one in the Phila. area !!

I can't find a single G70 to checkout here in the San Francisco Bay area either.

I'm curious, other than George Kaye (Kaye's Music Center) what other store(s) in the entire USA actually have a G70 in stock yet?

Scott

Well I got myself a G70, Yes it does have that similair VA7 sound to it but it puts it together better.

Can anybody anwer these questions?
1 How do you make a break fill
2 Can you reset to 1 ( for those drunk singers)
3 can you do an instant mute of all parts except drums/percussion
4 can you link 1 touch to variations


PS the vocalizer rocks!!!

I ordered a Roland G 70 seven weeks and four days ago and it's still not got here.
I don't worry about the keyboard not being what roland says it is because I belive in Roland.
As for it sounding like crapp I can't see this at all I have owned Rd300, D70,
JV 80,JV1000, RD 500, RD600, A90, G800,
Ra 800Mod. G1000 And now the Fantom X 8 and they were and still are all great keyboards.
I can't wait for my G70 to get here And if I am wrong I will be the first to say so.
The one thing that I don't like was Rolands marketing plan. that caused all of us that wanted one a lot of Crapp and I am thinking that along with the price tag is what has a lot of people so upset.
My 2 cents

I posted this review under its own topic but I thought it also was appropriate here.

I purchased a Roland G-70 (version 1.10) and have owned it for about one month. I have also owned an SD-1, Tyros and Korg PA1XPro. At my church, I also use a Triton Extreme, Roland RD700, and Yamaha Motif. Here are my impressions of the G-70 compared to the other arrangers I have owned:

Sounds
Quality of sounds is very subjective but this is my opinion. Even with OS version 1.10 there is too much reverb on some sounds and styles. I press the effects button then adjust the reverb and other effects to my taste and save it to a user program location. After adjusting the reverb I think the sounds are very comparable to the other top arrangers. I am mostly a piano player and the acoustic piano sound is the most important sound to me. The G-70 piano is outstanding. I am able to turn off the arranger function and enjoy playing solo piano. The Tyros has a very good piano but I think the G-70 is significantly better (part of this is due to the excellent semi-weighted action). The piano on the PA1XPro is extremely mediocre in comparison. Both the Tyros and PA1XPros have very good B3 organs but I think the G-70’s Virtual Tone Wheel technology is much better. There are physical drawbars that can be adjusted in real time. There are also controls for overdrive, leakage, percussion, rotary sound and vibrato/chorus that can be adjusted in real time. The B3 emulation is terrific. Other than piano and organs, I think the other sounds are very comparable. I like the electric pianos on the Tyros and PA1XPro better. Korg has better brass and accordions. Other sounds I like better on the Tyros. Some I like better on the G-70.

Styles
Quality of styles is also a matter of personal taste. All of the top arrangers have many good styles. Many of the G-70 styles have too much reverb. I adjust the reverb to my liking and save it to a user program. I like the intros, fills and endings much better on the G-70 than the Korg PA1XPro. With many styles on the PA1XPro, each variation would increase in volume compared to the preceding variation. Variation #4 would be significantly louder than variation #1. All fills were programmed at the same volume level as variation #4. If I played a fill when playing the first or second variation, the volume would surge for the one measure of the fill then decrease to its original level.
I talked to Korg’s US product manager for the PA1XPro and he confirmed that’s how the fills were programmed. The PA1XPro has extensive style editing features and the volume of the individual fills could be edited but it was a very tedious job.
On some styles besides the volume problem it seemed that the fill was not quite in sync with the rest of the style. I also like the G-70 intros and endings better than the PA1XPro. Many of the Korg endings were too long and too sophisticated sounding. They did not fit with the rest of the song. Ending #1 on the Roland produces a short and simple ending. I can play my own ending chord progression and hit ending #1 on the last measure and it sounds good. If I hit ending #2, it starts a short ending (usually 4 bars) but follows the chord progression that I play. This produces endings that fit with the song and do not sound canned. I also think the Tyros style controls are very good and usable.

Operating System
The Tyros has an excellent operating system and user interface. I think the G-70 is even better. The Korg’s interface is not as intuitive and is not as user friendly. Once you get used to it, it works okay but the others are much better.

Key Action & Build Quality
I think the semi-weighted key action on the G-70 is much better than the Tyros. I also think the build quality is much better. The PA1XPro build quality is also excellent and the key action is also very good. I like the key action on the G-70 slightly better.

Problems with the G-70
It is a large 76 note keyboard and very heavy. I have a Gator soft case with wheels. Between the combined weight of the keyboard and case and the large size, it is hard for me to transport the keyboard. This is not a problem for me because I only use it in my home studio and do not take it to gigs. If I needed to carry an arranger keyboard to gigs a few times a week I would use a Tyros or PSR 3000. Another big problem is Roland’s marketing strategy for the keyboard. Selling only through their CK dealers is a very poor decision. Most arranger players have not had the opportunity to even hear the keyboard. Most of the dealers that carry it have no idea how to use it or install an operating system upgrade. Most dealers ask for unrealistic list prices that are way too high.

Conclusion
I thought the Tyros was an excellent keyboard and I enjoyed playing it. The PA1XPro had more functionality (master controller features, style editing, sound editing, etc.) and good sounds but I could not live with the fills. For me, the G-70 gives more of the features I like in an arranger keyboard. I do not understand some of the extreme negative criticism of the board (it sounds like crap, the sounds are useless, etc.). Maybe: 1. The boards had the older operating system, 2.The operating was system was updated but not the resources, 3. The boards were defective, 4. The reverb needed more adjustment.

MP3 Files
I will record a few songs this weekend and post them so you can hear some of the styles and sounds.

Yes you can link one touch to variations. I have posted this information before. I'm at home right now and I can't remember exactly what buttons to push but I will post it tomorrow at my store.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

G Angel,
Did you order your G70 from a local store near you or did you find a dealer who will ship one to you? If so, can you tell me who this dealer is? Thanks
George Kaye

I think maybe our difference of opinion could also be because not all of us use the same sounds. For example, I did find the trumpets and choir voices on G70 to be good but I rarely use those sounds.. The sounds I use most are tenor sax,alto sax, soprano sax,flutes,accordions,guitars and for these sounds I felt the Tyros was far superior.
I have never before heard of an operating system upgrade to improve the sounds. This is a first for me. I thought they were always to correct functions.... Roland could have fixed this before releasing it because as it is it already has too many updates.....to me thats not good responsibility from a top company like Roland. My VA-5 if I recall had only one update in its lifetime..

I also find the Intro, Fill Ins, and Endings buttons on the Tyros more logical that on the G70.

Hi George
I ordered it from a dealer here In Chattanooga Tn.
I live in Chattanooga and have for 53 years
it is not the dealer.
The dealer is a very nice man and has a very fine piano store I might add.
Roland could not have picked a better dealer for here.
I couldn't find anyone that would ship one to me from out of town anyway,and the price I paid for it couldn't have been beat so I am very happy with the dealer.
I am a Roland man and have been for 22 years I love their keyboards but I don't like everything they do.
Like not giving us the people that buy their products a chance to pick where we buy from.
And having to order a keyboard that we can't play first.
I don't think there is a g 70 to be found in this part of the country anywhere.

G Angel,
thank you for the clarification. It is Roland's policy with the G70 to not sell to someone who is not local and this has been a major issue for my store. I have received hundreds of calls over the past few months requesting me to sell a G70 to someone out of the Los Angeles area and I've been forced to decline the sale because of Roland's business policy (Please let me qualify that this is just Roland CK's policy, NOT Roland MI). Many of my potential customers for the G70 have called Roland here in the US and complained of their policy, when these people are already customers of mine and want to continue doing business with me for many reasons, most of which is my passion for arranger keyboards and help with learning how to use them.
I was actually hoping you purchased from someone out of your area so that I could try to persuade Roland to allow sales through forums like this to the dealers that have a relationship with members of Synthzone and other forums.
I hope Roland is checking in on our forum from time to time and are reading all the posts and replys that have been written here over the past few days.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Am I right Rolandfan you wrote a review on
the G70 and you did not know about the up-
dates?
You called the thread "the truth about the
G70? How wrong can a man be!

Hi All; I have not owned a Roland keyboard before so I can't compair Roland to Roland. I traded a Technics Kn7000 for a G 70. I can compair there two. The roland, playing MIDI songs, has a wider range of instraments. On the Technics I hear a "hum" in the background on some songs, but not all. When I heard the G 70 it was through 2 120 watt speakers (240) and I was listening to the KN7000 through the installed speakers (35 watt) so that accounts for the sound difference. The KN7000 will play audio songs and the G 70 will not. The Technics has a proprietary form for storing songs. In my opinion better than MIDI/2.Is one better than the other? I would guess that is up to what you expect from a keyboard. I don't make a living playing keyboards. Would I buy the G 70 again --- yes. On the other hand -- I'm going to buy back the KN7000. There's a place for both in my home. Hope I didn't get too far off track, Dick

George, Is the G70 using the same sound engine [XV/JV] as the Fantom, instead of the SC/GS sound engine in the previous G's and VA's?
When you get time can you compare some common patches as you did the piano patches..particularly the "soft brass"[the G1000 is better than the Fantom X..
Steel guitar 2, choir and scat[VA is way better than the Fantom X]...
I have a Fantom X, and I can get a better feel for the G70 patches with your comparison...
Actually , I am hoping Roland retained the same sound engine {G and VA] annd just added an additional bank of G70 sounds, like the previous models...I prefer many G1000 patches to the counter sounds of the Fantom X..

The "soft brass" example has the fat sound we only got with the JX10 and D70....can't get the same thing from the JV/XV gear..

Wow, do you mean, even if someone likes the G70, he can't buy it unless there is a local dealer? And the local dealers that stock G70 are almost entirely non-existant? Amazing.
How do you come up with a marketing plan like that?
DonM

Dont know whats going on with Roland sales and Marketing. How do you release a keyboard that needs 2 or 3 software "upgrades" just to make it sound good AFTER you have purchased the product !

Fran,

As far as I can judge it both type of sounds are in the G70. Out of the box it is in the 'best selection' mode, which offers you only the new sounds. But, and now I quote from the manual, 'if you also want or need the 'older' sounds from the G-series and V-series you can select the extended mode and get more pages with sounds in each family'. This 'extended mode' gives you all 1596 sounds as the 'best selection mode' focuses more on the Fantom-based sounds.

My experience is that both are very good. I also like a lot of the vocal, brass, flute and pad-sounds of the previous series of keyboards. It is nice that they are in there!

In the mean time I am very much enjoying my new keyboard. I loaded some of my favorite midi-files in the internal memory and I really like the instant availability of the songs. You can change the sound settings of your song very quickly with the make-up function and there is a "minus one" button which instantly mutes the solo track so you can play or sing along with it. The chord recognition of the midi-songs is also a nice feature.

BTW Fran, you would do me a very big favour if you would mail me a few of your favorite styles. I am always short on good bossa-novas, ballads, swings and gospels. And oh, I can't find a how-down country style on the G-70. Thank's a lot in advance! I hope you get your hands on a G70 real soon now.

------------------
Tom NL

Fran,
Tom is correct about the two modes available. Unlike the VA line which had the 4 tone maps which seemed to confuse so many people because you only could see 1 maps worth of sounds at a time and this made is quite difficult when selecting sounds for a song or style, the G70 allows you to see all the sounds all the time or you can just see the "new" sounds used for the G70.
I don't have an older VA product at my store to actually compare the sounds but I think you will be quite pleased.
Yesterday, one of the synthzone guys came into the store wanting to see the G70. He had read all the posts regarding this product the past few days.
I gave him a quick tour and made it a point to play for him many of the sounds that have come up here in discussion. After this, I played some styles, demonstrated the 16 track sequencer, plugged in a mic and demonstrated the vocal harmonizer and the auto pitch correction feature and when I was done I joked and said "does this sound like crap". Of course it didn't. And as always I suggest you get a demo that is done by someone who has spent some time and knows any keyboard he or she is showing. I could have left this member alone. Actually, he walked in with his headphones in hand and this always makes me nervous. I'm afraid they won't be using the keyboard right or know what's what, so I always walk over and ask if I can show some of the features and sounds and navigation menus before leaving the customer alone with their set of headphones.
After an hour of trying and comparing with the PA1X (he already bought a PA80 from me some years ago), he was convinced the G70 and the PA1XPRO are two amazing keyboards!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Hi,
one question: Would I combine Yamaha Tyros and Roland G 70 instead using a Korg PA 1 X, what would I miss (except the better vocal harmonizer)?

------------------
Regards
RF

Which keyboard are you saying has the better vocal harmonizer? The Korg vs the other two? Actually the G70 has a great vocal harmonzier. It works great and is very easy to use. I would suggest all that get to demo the G70 to go into the demo and select vocal harmonizer and then select pitch correction tab. You now can sing amazing grace using the pitch correction and no mater what you sing or say, your voice is singing the correct pitch. This is fun and and a very good demo.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Would someone inform me (George?) whether the G-70's harmoniser (in pitch correct mode, not adding harmonies) will work like Auto-tune (where it detects the pitch you are singing and move/nudge towards the closest 1/2 tone or scalic value) or do you always have to either follow a preset melody or have to play the melody for the pitch correction?

This may be a source of confusion.... many (most?) of us don't like being forced to sing EXACTLY the same line every time we perform the song but if the pitch correction forces us to, this may not be very useful.

If the Roland doesn't do true Auto-Tune, do any of the other arrangers???

I'd just like to post on the original thrust of this topic.

I find it unbelievable that ANYONE expects ANY keyboard to sound perfect out-of-the-box (OOTB). Your perfect isn't my perfect..... my perfect is probably not yours!
What is disturbing is the number of people who think that an instrument of the G-70's complexity should power-up and be exactly the way they like it. I have used RA90's G800 and currently G1000 for15 years and NONE of them sounded the way I liked OOTB.

HOWEVER............ all of them could be made perfect with effort. Yes, effort...... seemingly something that some of you are unwilling to use. No professional would buy a Fantom Xa or a Kurzweil 2600 or a Triton Extreme and expect it to be perfect OOTB. Many of them would consider it essential to re-program EVERY sound that they use to put their own stamp on it. Sound A works with Sound B, but not if Sound C is present, e.g., hence effort.

I can imagine the Italian arranger players hearing an American voiced G-70 going 'This s*cks, it sounds like it's in an anechoic chamber!' and all of us here in the States going 'well, just turn up the reverb....' Effort........ that we apparently don't want to make ourselves.

The Arranger mentality seems to be 'Power up and go' but when you are dealing with a keyboard as powerful as a G-70 or PA1Xpro (essentially a Fantom X or a Triton) this ought to be 'Power up and edit' to get the best from it. There are posts here complaining of 'hidden' sounds!! Geez! Most of us call them variations and the more, the better! Many of the G1000/8000's better sounds are the variation, not the 'capital' sounds. This is for SMF compatibility, so when your SMF plays in my keyboard, patch 67 calls up a Tenor Sax, NOT a Breathy Tenor or a Tenor Ensemble or whatever else you consider the BEST Tenor Sax. If you meant those sounds, you would have used the CC32 bank change to get it. Effort....

Instead of auditioning a keyboard by listening to all the presets and judging from those, a far better way to discern the long-term usefulness of a keyboard is to take ONE preset and spend an hour seeing how much you can change it. You will have a MUCH better idea of how happy you will be in the long run (which, in the case of a $4000 keyboard, better be a DAMN long time!)

One final thought for you......... many of the posts here give a thumbs-up to the action of the G-70, but it seems to be an aside. I can't emphasize how important this is in the long run. During the tourist season here in Florida, I often do 2 or sometimes even 3 gigs a day - 8-10hrs of playing a day. No other key bed I have ever played has ever had the control and comfort of this one - no sharp corners to catch your hands on during organ smears, sufficient weight to play accurately, but not enough to be fatiguing, enough cushioning at the bottom of the key travel to avoid shocking your wrists and finger joints, and incredible reliability (if you use a good flight case, as all should!).
If you play or practice a LOT, this should be of close to paramount importance (can you say Carpal Tunnel?) Two BIG thumbs up - without pain!!

Anyway – rant off. Please make judgments but don’t define them as the ONE TRUTH, we’ve got a government here in the States to do that for us! And don’t make judgments if you haven’t even played one of the damn things……… Geez!!

And that's the truth.
Well said!

Why should I spend 4000$ and put it an "effort". Hallo?!? I d rather prefer arranger for 1000$ without big effort. Why should I spend hours and hours hard work for nothing, becouse arranger never sounds like a real band and thats all the same sheet. I d rather spend hours for practising new songs not for turning knobs. And I dont need thousents tenor saxs, i need one or two but good one without turning knobs. Sorry for my english.

Diki,
Nobody ever had complains on the keyboard-keybed quality of this machine. Most of us would accept a machine sounding almost perfect, a little tweaking to adjust to personal taste is normal.
Some people say in this case it just takes too much time to make it sound acceptable.

I owned Technics, Solton, Ketron and now Tyros..... none of them required any tweaking in sounds or styles for my taste.
(OOTB) Those manufacturers just know how instruments should sound in specific styles/environments.
E.g. What I strongly dislike is the 'distance-miking' effect in the G70, what makes it sound like in a bathroom....

Diki i dont know about you but i buy a keyboard to play not to sound edit. If i wanted to sound edit i would buy an out and out synth!!! That does not mean that i wont tweak sounds or if i have the time really dig into the keyboard but NOONE SHOULD BUY A KEYBOARD THAT THEY HAVE TO TWEAK JUST FOR THE SOUND TO BE ACCEPTABLE ! Thats complete madness and if thats what your into i have a casio here that i will sell to you for £1000 that you can tweeak to your hearts desire. Maybe you can make it sound better than the £300 keyboard that it was new !!

Worse still , noone should by a £3500 keyboard that sounds like my £300 casio !!!

I cannot ever remember hearing anyone make so many complaints about a keybooards general sound.

George tested the G70 and he said it was fine. I respect his opinion on the unit he had. I have tested the instrunmemt myself on two separate occasions and i wont mince my words , it sounded rubbish. But that was the unit i had tried. It had nothing to do with sound preference, i like korg, yams and rolands. This was a crap product full stop. Dont tell me that i should be spending hours of my time messing about with £000's of hitech junk to make it sound good!

Thats right Spalding.

And then we wonder why arrangers have such a bad name. When I buy a keyboard for over 3500, I want something that 4-5 years down the line I can change to my liking,

One thing I would say this discussion has done is to make me want to demo the G70. When the spects first came out last year, I was not even going to look at it because it did not have a sampler.

But with the differing opinions on sounds (which is just one thing on the G70) I really want to demo the keyboard.


It is really hard for me to believe that a flag ship arranger could be given such a low rating by some people. I want to know if it is the people who don't know what good sounds are or the people just have different sound likings or the people have a negative way to roland and a positive slant to other brands or it is just the keyboard.

It all boils down to a matter of taste isn't it?

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to have to edit sounds just to make them as they "should" be. Why? I just don't know how and maybe I am too lazy to learn now.

But in my naivette, and not having touched a G70, I believe that a keyboard should sound "good" (whatever that means for anyone here) right out of the box, so I can play, as Spalding wants.

I also believe that Roland can make a product sound "good" just like a producer makes a CD "sound good" for the majority of listeners. Some would like a little more overdrive guitar in song No3, and some would like to add some reverb to the vocals in song No15 but generally the producer wants to please the most and acts accordingly.

From the posts here, and elsewhere in the forum, it seems that Roland's "producers" didn't do that, or am I missing something?

In this page, we seem to have two different opinions: (I didn't dare look in the previous pages)
Diki and To the Genesys want the master tapes of song No3 so they can remix to their hearts content, Vano and Spalding, just want to pop the CD in the player and listen. I would probably want the same.

Is anyone of us wrong or right here? I don't know. Why the hell did I write all this? I don't know either

Theodore

Dead right. The first true arranger I owned was a Korg i3 - bought for portability to replace the last of a series of enormous Yamaha Electone organs (which I liked a lot). The Korg sounded great straight out of the box, and the more you delved into it, the more impressed you became.

I now have a VA-76. It sounded crap when I first heard it, as did all it's VA relatives. After three years of "fine tuning" the thing, it sounds better - now just "poor" as opposed to "crap".

That is not to say that it wasn't the right choice - it has certain functionality that I particularly wanted - but no matter what you do, it ultimately sounds like a £500 keyboard rather than one that costs over 4 times that price.

A good example is the drum sounds. The old Korg only had 8 kits - but they were 8 good kits - each with a choice of 4 snare drums and 4 bass drums which you could freely swap out. In contrast, the Roland boasts 128 kits, none of which ever seems to be quite what you are looking for. With the Korg, I coud always find a kit with a snare and bass-drum combination that sounded just right for whatever song I was arranging. With the Roland I seem to spend hours trying to get the drums to sound anything other than gutless and mushy - usually giving up and accepting somthing that I am not really satisfied with.

Whilst I accept that different makers have their own characteristic sound - and that is a good thing - the fundamental difference I am describing here is that the old Korg sounded like a "pro" instrument straight out of the box, while the Roland VA sounds "1980s home organ" no matter what you do to it.

In summary, I think that Spalding is dead right. To be worth buying, any instrument needs to sound good straight out of the box, but then to be capable of being tweaked to suit personal tastes and different styles of music. Just how good, and how versatile, will depend on the price you pay - but I would rather have a simple instrument that sounds "right" than one which can do everything, but does it all badly.......

After hearing the tyros....I can never buy the G70...... My friend at a local music shop tells me to buy the G70 because the tyros looks like a toy... and I told him that it may look like a toy but it sounds awesome...

I hate the G70 sounds. They suck. Even when the salesguy applied DSP effects it sucked.

I particularly love the flute,sax, accordion,harmonica strings sounds on the Tyros....on the G70 these sounds sound absolutely crap....

Even my friend said " Wow... How come the Tyros Soprano sax sounds so real and this Roland one sounds useless"

Hi (Roland)fan,
tell me, sound it like played by Sidney Bechet or played by John Coltrane? Or in other words: who plays it real?
Thanks
Hanspeter

i have tried to avoid posting to this thread, but its like the hole in the wall with the sign "dont look in here" ........anyhoo, i dont understand why there is so much confusion about this G-70, when Roland are just following their standard operating procedure, which is to take an existing framework, add a few things, re-model the casing and then flog it off as the "next big thing", they've done it with synths and arrangers since the eighties so why should this be any different, and really, the G-70 IS just a VA 76 with a few (slightly) different knobs, a few more EFX on the sounds, and i really think they didnt even bother with the styles, just relied on the tweaked sounds to carry them (the styles)..for an example just check out the base samples used for the sounds on the G-70 and then on the VA-76, you will find they are both essentially the same as the old original fantom series, which btw appear (gee thats a strange co-incidence) on the fantom X series as well, albiet with more, and more variation ....it is a well known industry fact that the VA-76 was a dog and did not sell anywhere near the units the bean counters at roland had figured, so the result of this was the G-70 so they could re-coup some of that with the smallest amount of new capital. imho, GOMO

dennis

peace, out

[This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 06-17-2005).]

Hi Dennis. This is different.Much much different.Actually demo the G70 yourself. I played the Va series when they first came out and the keyboard was ok , did not blow my socks off but thast just down to taste. But the G70 when it was first released sounded awful. I have yet to hear it sound even half way decent. We are not even talking Va series quality here. I have no idea what Roland were doing releaseing the keyboard sounding like that and then trying to save face by relasesing so called "upgrades of operating systems" supposedly dealing with the sound problems that almost everyone was complaining about . The sales and marketing manager at Roland really ought to be hung drawn and quartered(old English Torture ) as this marketing fiasco has undoubtedly killed off most of Rolands initial sales and certainly has created a feeling of mistrust towards Roland.
Big Big Big mistake.....

hey spalding, i did have a hands on demo of the G-70, which at the time was sitting on the rack as the PA1x Pro so i got to do a bit of an a/b, even though it was only about 1/2 hour..i also owned a VA76, and now own a PA1x Pro..admittedly the time i spent with the G-70 was very limited, but as i scanned thru the in strument lists and then checked the samples in the manual it 1. sounded very similar, (although i will grant you, not as good as the VA-76) 2. and the samples were also very similar.
I too, like you it would seem, have lost all faith in roland, and i have bee loyal to them since the JX3P days, synths and pianos..but i do believe the almighty dollar has made the decision in this case, and thery have not released anything truly ground breaking for may years, current X series included apart from the 88 note sampled piano, which imho they should have had 3 years ago,,they had the technology, just chose not to use it.

dennis

peace, out

[This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 06-17-2005).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by manic2257:
........anyhoo, i dont understand why there is so much confusion about this G-70, when Roland are just following their standard operating procedure

LOOOL!! Did you ever listen G-serie keyboards?! No, you don't! I don't care for VA or E or XXX-serie Roland's keyboards. We talk about G-serie and G-70 is a G-serie it isn't VA or some other serie. Then we'll talk and compere it with G-serie keyboards.